Posted by John Nichols on April 07, 2003 at 15:56:45 from 165.91.199.202 user Mcneacail.
In Reply to: Re: BECKFOOT unmentionables posted by Adam Quinan on April 06, 2003 at 12:54:46:
John, I was not around at the time (1930) but I am sure that all respectable English upper middle class houses would have had indoor plumbing by 1930, though you are probably right about a septic system in a country house like Beckfoot. My grandparents lived in a Tudor (or possibly) earlier farmhouse which had indoor facilities, but it was not on mains sewage and they had to have the tile bed re-done some time in the 1950s.
Adam:
I have inspected a lot of old houses as an Engineer and fixed quite a few that date from the 1860's in towns that have a similar socioeconomic structure to the Lakes District. From my observations it is likely that the change over from the pit toilets was occuring from the 1860's to the 1930's with the big public health push in the 1900 - 1930's at this level of society and with the separation from the big cities.
There would not have been the issues that were faced in London where the systems would have been first introduced. It would have happened at some time as AR was living there, with the latest probable date in the early 1930's, although the best guess is probably around the time of the Great War. (Out of interest is Captain Flint old enough to have fought in the Great War? how old were they when they climbed Kanchenjunga?
The real questions are:
1. Where are the toilets likely to be located? The best answer to that is where are the toilets in Tent Lodge. Does anyone know, or better still do we know if the current owners are on email or snail mail. There should be someone alive who was around the lakes at that time or do we have some old phone books or papers to look for plumbing adds.
2. The issue of the number of rooms on the ground floor is interesting, the question that must be asked is with Tent Lodge does the Lake Side - Garden Doorway lead to a hallway or the piano room. If it leads out of the drawing room then we have six rooms if a hallway then there would not appear to be enough room for six rooms.
3. The main house at Beckfoot is about 40 - 42 feet on each side. I think I can work out the size of Nancy's bedroom and assuming they are all the same then this leaves me the size of the two rooms in between. They are to small to be bedrooms.
4. I would love to know how the stairs comes down in Tent Lodge.
5. From my reading they did not have electricity at Beckfoot in the novels with all the references to Candles. (Ed can you check the stories on candles). I remeber reading about the Duke of Bedfords' house getting electricity in the 1920's and the visitors not knowing how to use it. Which suggests that it was just moving into the countryside at that time? You need electricity to run a sewerage system in this type of terrain except in a village that is all in one valley or connected drained valleys.
AR still sets puzzles and some of the finest minds in the world (it takes a very special sort of person to really like AR IMHO) are still answering the questions.
Anyway got to go teach.
John