Posted by Robert Dilley on December 09, 2004 at 20:39:41 from 65.39.13.79 user rdilley.
In Reply to: Re: not ALL land is owned by somebody in the USA posted by Peter H on December 09, 2004 at 19:36:25:
National Park designation in the UK does not involve title to the land -- just adds controls on what the land can be used for (whether you can have a caravan site in your field, for instance).
As for the mining in PP, Peter was quite right (again) -- the mineral rights are almost always separated from common rights. Under common usage the general principle was/is that anything on the surface (grass, peats, rabbits) were for the common-rights holders; anything under ground belonged to the Lord of the Manor as owner of the soil. Trees were considered to belong to the Lord because of their deep roots, but fallen branches could be taken by the commoners. It was amazing how many branches fell off just as someone needed some timber.
When the common lands were enclosed (divided up amongst the common-rights holders and fenced/walled) the mineral rights almost always remained with the Lord of the Manor. So if coal was found in your newly-enclosed field the Lord could go in and mine it without giving you any of the profit (though he would have to pay you compensation for your loss of use of the field).
Properly, then the SAD Mining Company were infringing on the rights of the holder of the mineral rights (I didn't do that part of the Lakes, so I don't know who the Lord of the Manor was likely to have been). And Captain Flint would have had to have got permission to have started his mine.
There was an interesting situation when I was researching in the Carlisle Record Office a few years back. Agents for the Duke of Devonshire were anxiously searching the Enclosure Awards of the early 19th century to try to find out what had happened to the mineral rights in what had been the Duke's manors on enclosure of the common lands. They wanted to take the originals to London but (bolstered by my strongly-stated advice) this was refused. I never did discover what they found out.
The same situation applies in Canada -- someone else may own the mineral rights to your property, even though you have title to the land. That causes some ill-feeling out West, when oil and gas companies can go into a farmer's fields and set up their pumps and all the farmer will get is a small fee. Being on a solid chunk of Precambrian Canadian Shield, they're not likely to find oil under my two acres!