Re: Boy Scouts, Girl Guides and S&A


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Posted by Joe Windsor on August 28, 2006 at 12:07:23 from 84.12.25.230 user Joe.

In Reply to: Re: Boy Scouts, Girl Guides and S&A posted by Jock on August 28, 2006 at 09:18:33:

I envisage three possible reasons why AR did not link the youngsters to the Scouts and Guides. Timing of their foundation and AR's awareness of them given what he was doing; AR prefering a mixed-gender situation and the Scouts / Guides being strictly separate then; possibly his attraction to The Woodcraft Folk given his Russian expriences.

Ex-General Robert Baden-Powell (BP) thought young boys would benefit from activity and fieldcraft training. In 1907 he ran a first experimental camp for 20 boys on Brownsea Island in Poole Harbour (where I live). The Scouts and others still camp there today.

As a result he wrote Scouting for Boys and published it in 1908. The first Scout Rally was run at Crystal Palace in 1909. (Crystal Palace burned down in 1939 I think because I saw the flames from our home in Surrey). BUT - a number of girls turned up wanting to be Girl Scouts! In those days, well brought up girls wore floor length skirts and DID NOT RUN! So they took them on as a separate group.

Criticism was fierce, including 'this is a foolish and pernicious movement' Harrumph. 'Nice' girls shouldn't behave like hoydens or savages.

The Girl Guide Movement was started in 1910 by BP's sister Agnes. His wife Olave became Chief Guide in 1912.

The two Movements were gender-specific and grew - developing overseas. The biggest PR boost was in 1937 when Princess Elizabeth (now Queen) becamse a Guide and Princess Margaret a Brownie.

Oh, and the Scouts were active as messengers and such-like in WW1 and WW2, The Guides were active in WW2 in support of social organisations such as the WRVS (as it now is). Super war service, even through the blitz.

And the origin of the names? Britain's Colonial experiences (BP was ex-army). Scouts were locals (especially in Africa) helping troops to cross country and find the baddies. The term Guides came from our North West Frontier, in what was British India which included what is now Pakistan. They helped out on the frontier with Afghanistan and Kashmir. Always trouble there - and nothing new about that, is there!!

So AR may well have missed the nascence of the Movements and rejected the gender-specific nature of them.

The Woodcraft Folk were completely different. This was an overtly socialist movement set up in 1925. 'Woodcraft' referred to similar fieldcraft skills not just to tree-hugging. They took young people of either gender, had no uniform and are co-operative rather than hierarchical. Quite different from Scouts & Guides. Their objective was 'to create a world based on equality, peace, social justice and co-operation'.

So in writing he may have espoused certain Woodcraft traits whilst allowing the families to have Leaders and Crew.

That's the best I can come up with. What do you think? Joe


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