Posted by Peter in Japan (forwarded by Ian) on September 17, 1997 at 10:03:29:
In Reply to: Turner Family info from AR saga posted by Peter in Japan (forwarded by Ian) on September 17, 1997 at 09:50:25:
I didnt want to put much of my own stuff into my Turner file, but here is what I think about some of it -- I hope it will spark some lively discussion:
SA ch 10
Peggy: He's nothing to do with us. he's a native and very unfriendly
N: That was last year... He was friendly last year. This year hes in league with the natives [etc]
This suggests having to be back at Beckfoot for lunch all the time, unfriendly goings on at Beckfoot in general, more than just captain Flint and Mixed Moss. I suggested, in Signalling to Mars a few years ago, that maybe the Great Aunt was present at Beckfoot during the first part of S&A. It also accounts for best-frock parties.
SA ch 11
He brought the parrot from Zanzibar. hes been all over the world. Mother says he was the black sheep of the family when he was very young, so he went to South America.... Mothers his sister......we used to sail with him in Amazon...he gave us Amazon...
SA ch 13
Old Billy: I mind well when Mrs Blackett, little Miss Turner she was then, came to see me and my hut when she was no bigger than what you are now miss [susan] She and master Jim.
SA ch 31
Mrs Blacket jumped ashore into her brothers arms
Capt F: Nancy when shes a pirate, my dear
Here we learn a little about the relationship between Jim and Molly: Molly is described elsewhere as short and plump, and Jim is a big man, big enough to catch his sister in his arms [or that may be just figurative].
Which is older? I'd love to know for certain, but I cant find any clear evidence. In the Japanese language, because older members of one's family have different pronouns, Capt Flint is written in the Japanese version as a younger brother. Also he is mentioned second on the "matterhorn" note in SD ch 27 below and by the Billys in SA ch 13 above. But Nancy and Pegy are big lasses and Jim is a big bloke, so Molly is small in spite of her "bigness" genes, now since we know her mother died when she was young, maybe her mother actually died at Molly's birth, so Molly was less well-nourished as a baby? I dont know enough human biology to really comment on this... but it means she must be the younger.
SD ch 3
Mrs Dixon: She never did hold with them rampaging around in a boat
N: Aunt maria doesnt like tobacco
P: He isnt allowed to live there [houseboat]
AR is telling us something here: the GA doesnt like lots of stuff...
SD ch 9
Old MrsSwainson: ... it seems no time since your mother came in ... no bigger than you... I was a grown woman then too. Neddy Swainson: 60, 65, 70 years, [been married]
... They dont look like Blacketts or Turners
Here the last bit is interesting. It suggests that the Swainsons know both the Blackett and Turner families, well enough to rule out the Walkers as being of either stock. Popular opinion here in Japan ARC is that the Blacketts [Bob, Helen and mum and dad] visited Swainsons farm in the holidays, much like the walkers. I like this idea, because it explains things like Jim playing in Ben Gunn's cave, so far from Beckfoot [while we know that Nancy and Peggy didnt go that way much]
PS, that's Aunt Helen mentioned in SW
SD ch 13
N: As soon as she heard you had gone [GA --> head of lake] ...to tell the vicar how things should be done
So can we assume that the Turners are C of E?
P: Hes as much afraid of the GA as we are
N: Much more.
Titty: I think the GA must be horrid
Captain Flint said neither "yes" nor "no" to that.
SD 15
CF: But Im not living in the houseboat just now
[etc]...
T: He cant... its the Great Aunt
CF: She isnt going to stop forever
T: I think its horrid that they cant come
CF: So do I ... but it cant be helped
As Nancy says later, "It wasnt any good Mother and Uncle Jim pretending".Captain Flint certainly isnt following the old English tradition of not airing the family linen in public.
Titty: Didnt she make friends when she saw how nice you were?
MW: Perhaps she didnt think so
[She would say no more about the GA]
... while Mrs walker is being more cautious about what she says, and Titty is capable of believing that the GA could at least make friends with someone as nice as the best of All Natives. The Walkers dont have that total "Ugly Stepmother" attitude to the GA
The next bit is interesting. Nancy describes how the GA picks on her mother in particular:
P: Lets come here and hide [PDs cave]
N: No good... because of Mother
N: It isnt as if it was only us. We can stand it. But she will go for mother. And when Uncle Jim's not there, she's even worse. Last night she made mother cry. It was about us of course. She dragged father in. We knew because we heard Uncle Jim...
N: all 3 meals...
P: and we really did mean to be back at dinner
T: but you can tell her
N: She'd only look at Mother
I think the bit about the GA being worse when Jim isnt there is very interesting. He can come and go as he pleases. Maybe Nancy is disappointed with his lack of support [just as she often criticises his absence during summer holidays] Later, Jim is "betwixt and between", so slightly treacherous when he finds himself uder too much GA pressure
The Kanchenjunga summit scene. This is one of the very best bits of all the books
August 2nd 1901 We climbed the Matterhorn
Molly Turner
J. Turner
Bob Blackett
If Jim were older than molly, wouldnt he be first-named? [as in John, susan, titty...]
"That's Mother and Uncle Jim" said peggy in a queer voice.
"Who is Bob Blackett" asked Susan
"He was Father" said Nancy
Nobody said anything for a minute...
I remember thinking this was pretty sad when I read it as a small person.
N: Perhaps in another 30 years... she broke off, but presently laughed.
An early bit of "Nancy loves John" evidence
Mary Walker: was she really as bad as all that?
Susan: She probably didnt mean to be but she was
Here is another example of the Walkers seeing the GA from a different point of view. Not so black-and-white as the Blacketts.