Latest TarBoard Messages

I was going to a new school that January and the normal winter daily school uniform was shorts, shirt, long socks and a jersey. However, because of the cold the school allowed us to wear long trousers during the coldest period and I recently found a photo of my all boys class standing outside the classroom building in their trousers.

In the more normal winters that we had in following years, it was shorts all the time, no more soft concessions.
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

Duncan
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.

Of course in Canada I'd put on some SNOW pants but I realize I'm not as hardy as our favorite intrepid adventurers were.
posted via 134.117.251.6 user rlcossar.

This link will only work today. But if you happen to be not aware of how Tony manages his site, all the photos from one day appear for the next week at the link "This Week on the Cam" at the bottom of the home page. (See the thread "Snow on Kanchenjunga" immediately below for how it works.) So if you miss it today it's available for another week on the site, and then later made available with many, many other photos on CD.

But I promise I won't post any more pictures from LakelandCam (at least for a while....)

• The LakelandCam website

[ Image ]

posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

Ransome used his experiences and added incident or description to his books without really thinking that he was trying to nreproduce real life exactly as it was in 1931 or 1932. After all while he might have doubted the possibility, I am sure he would have been glad to know that the books would still be enoyed by children born six decades after they were written and who would be very unlikely to know when the radar towers were built or the Pommern docked in the river.

Similarly, he liked the secret harbour on Peel Island but seems to have imagined rest of the island as more like Blake Holme. So he put them together, not worrying whether a child on another continent would wonder exactly where that place was and whether it was in Coniston or Windermere.

posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

1929, Liverpool
1930, Glasgow
1931, Cork
1932, Glasgow.
1933, London.
1934, Hull.
1935, London
1936, Ipswich
1937, London
1938, Belfast
1939, Hull

So WDMTGS must be in 1936.

In reality, she berthed in Butterman's Bay, just below Pin Mill and visible from AR's house on the north shore of the Orwell, and discharged her grain cargo into barges that took it on up river to Ipswich Docks, which she was too large to enter.

I cannot remember how this fits with the three towers of the Chain Home radar station at Bawdsey, which also get a mention.

posted via 92.29.121.22 user ACB.

[ Image ]

posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

http://englishlakes.co.uk/watersports/web_cam.aspx

because I could actually watch it SNOWING - really coming down real thick, with very limited visibility. It is a true WINTER HOLIDAY scene. These are not stills, but live action videos, a delight in any weather to check it out.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

[ Image ]

posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

He and Evgenia did go by sea to Syria and back to visit the Altounyans (and write Peter Duck) but I don't know which port he left from. He had also been across the Channel to France, presumably by steam ferry boat.
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

But I am wondering where Ransome picked up his knowledge. We know he sailed in the dark aboard Racundra in the Baltic, but I can't recall whether he ever sailed in the Channel before he wrote PD. Did he just study the Channel Pilot book and work out in his imagination what it would have been like, based on his Baltic experience, or had actually cruised those waters at some time?
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

I suppose Ransome could have written them after the rest of PD to explain that PD was metafictional but then decided to leave the story as it stands, opening in Lowestoft. I don't know the chronology of writing the opening and omitted chapters.
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

Nikolai Tolstoy, who wrote Patrick O'Brian: The Making of the Novelist, uses this technique
to disentangle the real from the fictional in O'Brian's past.

In the case of the SA/SD 'gap' this, together with the signposting of a deep water cruise at the
end of SA, suggests that in AR's own mind, PD was not originally supposed to be meta-fictional
(the elaborate introductory section at Lowestoft would fit in with this) and was to have taken
place in a summer holiday between SA and SD.

Perhaps, the cruise just got too ambitious to be realistic and the meta-fictional explanation in SD
contrived by AR, late in SD's genesis, to get over the difficulty?
posted via 178.37.134.46 user Jock.

• Guardian - Richard Scott obituary

• Obituary

I think AR considered a lot of details, just like his comments on sailing, but that keeping them all straight (without Ed's computer to do quick searches) was difficult.
posted via 134.117.251.6 user rlcossar.

I wonder if it was indeed something to do with the Anonymous group's blitz on the proposed ACTA legislation?

posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

• Straemdays - Lake Windermere Ferry Crossing

I wonder if anyone thought his name was "A. Rolling-Stone" (good Public School name that, as in "Fotherington-Smythe! Take Rolling-Stone and report to Matron at once!"

• A Rolling Stone's third bestseller

• metafictional Peter Duck cover

Regarding chronology, I tried to analyse the Cathedral Choir School books of William Mayne (good reads BTW), using the Book of Common Prayer to find out the days of the month (from the daily psalms).... of course the author gets it wrong, so the books, all supposed to be in the same year, are over several years. I therefore can't blame AR for putting the moon in the wrong place.
posted via 222.155.48.150 user Dowden.

Just because we have hashed something to death does not mean that will we will not hash it again.

I well remeber your MM article.

Of course the MM article on Beckfoot, has in my opinion a number of flaws.

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.3 user Mcneacail.

posted via 17.244.11.96 user dthewlis.

There's a nice opportunity to synchronise the days of the week mentioned in WD with the tides, which are stated throughout the book. Anyone got a tide table for Harwich in 1932 (or is it 1931?)?

• AR Wiki WD article; there's a chronology including tide times near the bottom

"MIXED MOSS. By a Rolling Stone. Pub. 1930, 8th edition 1931"

I could see that a popular book such as Mixed Moss would have had eight reprints by 1931, but eight editions?

It seems unlikely that Arthur Ransome was so inexperienced with publishing (and successful books) that he thought each reprint was a new edition?
posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

JMN

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

---------- SDCH7.TXT
[in a footnote about the book CF just wrote]
* MIXED MOSS. By a Rolling Stone. Pub. 1930, 8th edition 1931

---------- SDCH27.TXT
[at the rock cairn on the mountain top...]
"Aug. 11. 1931.

In SWALLOWS AND AMAZONS we have this reference to 1929:

---------- G:\RANSOME\ALL\SACH10.TXT
at this place of Wild Cat Island in the month of August 1929."

The PROBLEM comes from those several references made in SD
to various events done in SA as being done LAST YEAR.

From this we can conclude that either the 1929 date for SA
or the 1931 date for SD is incorrect.

Let us assume for a moment that the SA date is wrong, that
SA took place in 1930, and NEXT YEAR in 1931 was SD, the next
summer was PP in 1932, and PM was in the next year, 1933.

In PICTS AND MARTYRS we have these references to AUGUST:

---------- PMCH1.TXT
the hot August sunshine. They were talking of the boat which

---------- PMCH16.TXT
It was very different on this warm August afternoon, with the

---------- PMCH19.TXT
were chattering, though it was a warm August night.

---------- PMCH23.TXT
rain and visitors coming together in August, but it was no good.

This reference to the THIRTEENTH of the month is in PICTS AND
MARTYRS in the letter from the GA. The specific month is not
identified, but the above references indicate "August."

---------- PMCH3.TXT
devices. You tell me your mother returns on the thirteenth. On that
day I am expecting a friend whose visit I cannot defer. I have, how-
ever, cancelled all my engagements until that date, and am coming
to Beckfoot tomorrow to take charge of the house till the eve of your
mother's return, when I shall have to leave you to prepare for my
visitor at Harrogate. I shall be glad if you will ask Cook to air the

Working backwards from the THIRTEENTH, we can determine the day
of the various events of PICTS AND MARTYRS.

Day of the month.....Day of the visit
SAT.....13....................GA is with the friend at Harrogate
FRI.....12.................11 Ga leaves to go to the train
THURS...11.................10 free for the day, to High Topps
WED.....10.................9 back to houseboat, more stinks
TUES....9..................8 to houseboat with loot, do stinks
MON.....8..................7 burglary
SUN.....7..................6 rain, cooked rabbit, Nancy soaked
SAT.....6..................5 Got Scarab
FRI.....5..................4 Jacky shows, NO GO, guddling
THURS...4..................3 Postman & Timothy scare, make harbour
WED.....3..................2 They move to DOGS' HOME
TUES....2..................1 D's arrive, spend night in Beckfoot
(assuming 1932 for days of the week)
(if assuming 1933, then the day of the week would be the NEXT DAY)

The key date here is the date they picked up SCARAB, which counting
backwards from the 13, documented in the GA note, falls on AUG 6.

Our assumption has suggested 1933 for PM. But this is a problem.
Aug 6 is when they "Got SCARAB". That date in 1933 is a SUNDAY
when it is not likely that the boat builder would be in business
to deliver a boat. However if we change our assumption to 1932
for PM, then Aug 6 would appear on SATURDAY, as shown on the
above schedule of events.

So we have to back up a bit on our previous assumption to put PM
in 1932. That makes PP in 1931, and SD in 1930, and SA can
stay the same at 1929.

Therefor we must conclude that the SD references are one year off.
------------------------------------------------------------------
What is truly amazing about all this is the fuss and bother about
these dates that has come up from time to time in the TarBoard,
since we are dealing here with works of FICTION. This is not
a set of HISTORICAL documents; they do not document REAL EVENTS
that actually happened on such-n-such a day. It is all made up
as imaginary events, yet we seem to imply a need for "historical
accuracy" in the recording of these dates. Do we really expect
that RANSOME checked his calender for that bygone year to see
if maybe the D's were to pick up SCARAB on a SUNDAY? Such detail
is not all that necessary for FICTION, yet we seem to think that
this kind of detail should have been correctly determined by
the author to be able to say the event could have happpened on
that particular day.

When you come right down to it, maybe the boatbuilders were indeed
there at the shop on that Sunday afternoon. Sometimes people do
have to work on weekends to meet their obligations and promised
deliveries.

So with that admission, let us continue to say that SA and SD have
a disagreement about the year, and, that it does not matter whether
the error is in SA or in SD as to what years these things happened,
because, they really did not happen, ever, in any year, other than
the author's imagination.

But it sure gives us something to talk about.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky

posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

As Australia claims all the way to the South pole over much of the quadrent due South of Australia, if a plane went down in the Australain region, I am sure Australia would coordinate the rescue even if it asked for help from others.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Ps hope this reaches you ungarbled as my graphics card has faied agin � 3rd time this month

posted via 80.189.26.98 user OwenRoberts.

The point about Rear-Admirals was really that the RN had too many Admirals, so when most Captains reached that level near retirement they were simply retired with that rank -- it was a sot-of honorary rank, but ensured that when they went on to the Retired List it was with a level of pay (and honour) that reflected their level of service.

I think it's pretty-well established that in 'Secret Water' Ted's rank was Commander (with his next promotion if/when it happened being to Captain), but that Peggy -- unlike the Swallows who were versed in the ways of the Navy -- thought he might have been a 'Captain' and incorrectly referred to him as such.
posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

Crikey!
posted via 222.155.48.150 user Dowden.

I'd like to see that. Please tell us more.
posted via 222.155.48.150 user Dowden.

If you eel-mail me I think that I can help.

Nice of you to pop-in!

posted via 81.219.27.248 user Jock.

I think whoever penned that little ditty may have done it before radios, so if something happened down their you were cactus. I would not like to be in a sinking ship waiting for the Navy, particular if we had an Skipper like the one in Italy.

Cactus = Australian for in a hole and the gravedigger is filling it in.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

• Robert and Mary

At the moment he is engrossed in "Peter Duck". We had a bit of confusion becaus,e thanks to the generosity of Julia Jones, he has sailed aboard Peter Duck the boat, but he has sorted out Peter Duck the imaginary friend in Swallowdale, Peter Duck the very real boat and Peter Duck the old seaman quite well I think.
posted via 92.24.130.179 user ACB.

South of 70 degrees south there is no god.

The Lindblad Explorer sank in 2007 after being holed by ice in the Southern Ocean at 62��24��18��S 57��11��46��W, but the crew was picked up from the lifeboats by the Norwegian cruise ship MS Nordnorge, guided by the Chilean navy and the Argentinian Coastguard. All passengers and crew were saved.

Did the Australian Navy give up any rescue attempt because it was too far south? Or maybe because it was too far east or west. or does God only help Norwegian cruise ships below 60��?
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

Alternative view:

South of 40 degrees south if you are in trouble only the Australian Navy can help you.

South of 50 degrees south if you are in trouble God will help the Australian Navy to help you.

South of 60 degrees south only God can help you

South of 70 degrees south there is no god.

posted via 165.91.199.10 user Mcneacail.

Mike:

I have a seven year old who is learning to spell, it is not fun at times. I have a four year old who swears in Spanish, picked it up from the boys in her preschool.

At the moment the seven year old is reading the Glass evelator. AR soon.

posted via 165.91.199.10 user Mcneacail.

His ship has not sunk it is merely on its side. Why did he leave.

JMN

posted via 165.91.199.10 user Mcneacail.

Spelling has always been a problem for me, as a child responses such as 'How do you think it's spelt?' or 'Why don't you look it up in a dictionary?' were irritating and most unhelpful!

All credit to Charles for reading the book, and being engrossed by it to ask the question.
posted via 2.28.95.226 user MTD.

• Charles is ten. Sorry.

On second thoughts her first initial does too, and is not vastly imaginative.
posted via 2.25.105.131 user eclrh.

Does anybody know? Or will I find out if I read more?

Cook's surname appears later in the series but I think that's all.

The Amazons also have another maid in Swallowdale but she has disappeared by the Picts and Martyrs.

posted via 2.25.105.131 user eclrh.

Better drowned etc and

You can go out to sea, nothing says you have to come back.

I think the ironic thing is the percieved character of the Captain. As sailors we all make mistakes, my wife will not let me forget that I capsized a Mirror Dinghy in the middle of Coniston. We had my 9 year old daughter who went under the sail. I had done this many times, so it was just routine, but to Anne and Charlotte is was terrifying.

The bad thing is I capsized in a dead calm.

My only question is : Why did he leave a boat that is not sunk.

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.19 user Mcneacail.

Just saying....
posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

Mary Walker, Mary Swainson, Maria Turner, Molly Blackett.

posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

I mess about with ships. I've only once been responsible for a passenger cruise ship - today I just have big container ships to think about.

The ship in the picture is the old "Coral Princess", in Milford Sound in New Zealand. Calum Anderson was the Master, John McCall was the Chief Engineer, Chris Macdonald was the Mate (do you detect a certain Scottish influence?) and Mark Beaumont, who incidentally was the ship's commercial manager, took the picture from one of the starboard lifeboats.Every one of us had read Arthur Ransome and none of us can remember the year - 1989 at a guess. But if the buck had stopped, it would have been on my desk.

I have a good deal of sympathy for those involved in the "Costa Concordia" disaster. It seems to have started with a tiny thing - another ship was to port of her when she should have turned to port to start her run up the coast of the island, so she had to let that ship go clear firs,t and turned late. This changed her line of approach and because the manouevre was being done by eye, rather than using the well established electronic techniques available (primarily radar parallel indexing, invented in 1957, but widely seen as a British "fad") the error was not detected until too late.

I can bore for England on this subject... but had much better not.

There are some points in common with John wrecking "Swallow".

[ Image ]

posted via 92.29.126.98 user ACB.

David
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.

Also, the Swallows have someone called Nurse and the Amazons have someone called Cook but I cannot find their names.

Does anybody know? Or will I find out if I read more?
posted via 92.29.126.98 user ACB.

Our favourite salt marshes and several other locations to the North and South are the remains of earlier estuaries
of the prehistoric precursor to the Thames.
posted via 81.219.27.248 user Jock.

• Harold Hems

Life in the English Country House is by Mark Girouard not 'Mard Giroud'.

• Life in the English Country House

While it may be argued that Beckfoot is hardly a grand 'country house' - more like an extended farmhouse
from AR's description � it does have some country house features and accoutrements:

• boathouse
  
• motor launch, sailing dinghy, rowing boat
  
• houseboat
  
• disused tennis court
  
• croquet lawn
  
• own running water supply (formerly water drawn from well)
  
• once had more servants

Can anybody add to the list?

Hi Steve. Which of the SA series is your favourite book?

• English country house reading list

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Most of our discussions are based on Ransome but sometimes we can stretch that a bit farther than you would think possible!

Now to get started on a chat, what is your knowledge of the plumbing arrangements at Beckfoot?
posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

Newby here.

A bit of a Squashy Hat.

Just like to say Karabadangbaraka to all and SWALLOWS ANE AMAZONS FOREVER!
posted via 95.148.38.112 user harrybangate.

I certainly agree with you about the need for imagination. This is surely one of the main elements of SA, as AR himself said:

�And I think I can put my finger on the thing in (Swallows and Amazons) which gave me so much pleasure. It was just this, the way in which the children in it have no firm dividing line between
make-believe and reality, but slip in and out of one and the other again and again and backwards and forwards, exactly as I had done when I was a child and, as I rather fancy, we all of us do in grown-up life.�

The creative team behind the musical focussed on this element of the book, and I reckon they have done an excellent job. Surely any live theatre requires an imaginative response from the audience? In this case it's impossible to put a real lake "as big as an inland sea" on stage, so they were wise not to try. Much better, I think, to invite the audience into the children's minds in the way they do.

As you say, the one negative review I've seen probably says more about the reviewer's mindset than anything else.

Thank you (and Roger) for the kind words about the Arthur Ransome Trust display.

posted via 109.153.135.25 user Geraint_Lewis.

I think it was a journalists' answer, wishing to maintain his "line" that he was essentially apolitical (and, in so far as he was not actively party political, this was about true).
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.

• Guardian - Costa Concordia transcript

Fishing ... for what?

It rather turns up as a reference in Captain Flint's comment towards the end of S&A. The chapter "Two Sorts of Fish".

"What are you doing?" said Roger.
"Giving them something to catch,"said Captain Flint.

Andy

posted via 90.244.212.50 user AndyG.

Obvioulsy the skipper never modelled himself on a real skipper.

-------------------------------------------------------------

"You go on board and then you will tell me how many people there are. Is that clear?" De Falco shouted in the audio tape.

Schettino resisted, saying the ship was tipping and that it was dark. At the time, he was in a lifeboat and said he was coordinating the rescue from there.

De Falco shouted back: "And so what? You want go home, Schettino? It is dark and you want to go home? Get on that prow of the boat using the pilot ladder and tell me what can be done, how many people there are and what their needs are. Now!"

"You go aboard. It is an order. Don't make any more excuses. You have declared the abandoning of the ship, now I am in charge," De Falco shouted.

Schettino was finally heard agreeing to reboard. It is unclear whether he did.

posted via 165.91.199.11 user Mcneacail.

[ Image ]

posted via 121.127.211.55 user mikefield.

P: "What do you do when you go on holiday?"
IG: "I fish."
P: "You fish?...And you don't consider that a hobby?"
IG: "Certainly not."
P: "What is it, then, would you say?"
IG: "Something between a sport and a religion."

posted via 74.196.16.245 user dthewlis.

In Australia it is an urban legend, of course fish do not get pregnant.

A gold fish who is female and stuffed with eggs is apparently called a tw?t ? = fill in English alpha.

I was allowing for your young readers.

I looked at the AR Twitter, interestingly one of his followers is a porn site. I can imagine an English gentleman with a pipe raising an eyebrow at that one.

JMN

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

• but is not pleased with it.

You're right, of course. But I was only being very approximate. Maybe too approximate. The point it that in London too I can definitely see the difference.

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

That sounds wrong. London is 51.5 deg N, Kentucky is about 38, the latitude of Cordoba.
posted via 2.25.105.131 user eclrh.

But I am impressed by his detective work - I handed him my 1932 copy and asked him to spot the difference, meaning the Clifford Webb pictures, and he came up with a theory of his own!
posted via 2.97.209.239 user ACB.

"For some time the four explores lay still listening to the rain drumming on the thin tent walls within a few inches of their faces."

My 2004 edition (a reprint of the 1961 type re-set edition, again Jonathan Cape hard back) matches yours.

Perhaps when the type was reset AR took the chance to edit or someone else did!
posted via 2.25.182.166 user MTD.

IIRC there is at least one other recent change in recent editions of SD - a new paragraph about the date?
posted via 178.37.134.142 user Jock.

My 2004 Cape hard back has the "thin tent walls within a few inches"

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I checked and found that the "old" version was still being used in my 1979 Puffin reprint and in the two earlier editions I own. But it has changed by the 1999 reprint.

I wonder how this occurred.
posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

On page number 245 in my copy which is the Johnathan Cape hardback 1999 reprint, a paragraph begins:

"For a long time, the explorers lay awake, listening to the rain on their tents and the rushing of the stream and the new roaring of the waterfalls."

But my Daddy has a different edition.

His copy says "reprinted August 1932". At the same page it says:

"For some time, the four explorers lay still, listening to the rain on the thin tent walls within a few inches of their faces."

Daddy says this is a Discovery in Literary Criticism.

Is he right?

Charles Craig-Bennett ten next wednesday.
posted via 2.97.220.234 user ACB.

I visit there every day. The difference with daylight in London is almost (but not quite) what it is for you. That webcam generates a superb picture, although there is a limitation in that it often fails during the night and I have to wait till somebody up there resets the camera later in the day. It also needs quite a bit of light...

An alternative is the webcam at Bank Ground Farm (which is in reality Holly Howe):

http://www.bankground.com/webcam.html

Views are selectable; go for 'Swallows and Amazons'. It's the field up which Roger tacks at the opening of SA. It doesn't look as though anything has changed at all.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

I mentioned that Victoria still has features that remind me of those I saw on our first, 1946 journey across France. When you take a train heading south to the channel ports, that crosses the river, you pass along the parallel tracks which store the trains to be used later... Driving down the Embankment, past Chelsea bridge, the tracks are highly visible because they terminate just by the road. You can also see them clearly on Google Maps. In '46, when everything was steam powered, there would be parallel rows of engines with steam up, waiting to be called on; the steam would rise vertically from the forest of chimneys, and it would smell sweetly of coal smoke and steam... That '46 journey was via Newhaven and Dieppe (Calais had been totally flattened and was out of service) and the danger of remaining mines meant that crossing times were governed by the tides. We crossed on a packet called the 'Canterbury', sailing at around five in the morning, and although the Channel had been thoroughly swept, there was still the odd mine floating free on the surface. My sister and I were the first civilian children to cross (she was 4 and I was 6), and they quartered us in the ship's hospital. I remember that this was all strange and new. First sea journey, and the most comfortable I ever experienced, then or since. It was flat as a mill pond, brilliant sunshine; it spoilt me for ever for real sea crossings. We went up to the bridge and were able to talk to the lookout. Everybody else was crossing as part of the Army. I remember when we got to Dieppe, the commotion on shore; "Oh, regardez les petits Anglais!" I didn't realise that we were a kind of first sign of spring, proof that the war was really over.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

http://www.elh.co.uk/watersports/web_cam.aspx

By "visiting" via this webcam (even though I am in Kentucky in the USA) I can see the weather, the water level in the lake, the wave conditions, and, even become more aware of the length of the day in this northern region. In WINTER HOLIDAY, they spoke of the shortness of the daylight, with plenty of time for star gazing in the evenings. The further north one gets, the greater is this difference in daytimes between Summer and Winter. Of course, I have to adjust my own concept of "time of day" to the different time zone of the Lake District, but even with that clock adjustment, it still amazes me at what such an early hour that the sun goes down, with twilight and then darkness being so obvious in this timly webcam that is showing the current contitions at this moment. In the Summer, that the daylight time that far north is very long is brougt out in Picts and Martyrs, as Dick, seeing the telescope there in the Beckfoot bedroom that first night, and being excited about the prospect of star viewing, but is reminded that he would probably be long askeep before it got dark enough for star watching. Watching the webcam showing me the day/night conditions, with the mood light on some nights providing the illumination during the night, does emphasize this shift in the daylight/nighttime hours at these northern lattitudes, especially when I compare this with the day/night times I saw in South Florida, being close to the tropics, where the shift in day time for Winter or Summer was much less. There is a good world geography lesson here to view the Lake District conditions via this webcamera. Interesting to see that sometimes, the jetties where boats arae moored are sometimes under water, and at times, there are definite waves splashing on the shore.

We are all fascinated by "The Lake" in Ransome's imagination, but this webcam does much to make that mental image into reality, sailboats and all.

So if you can't get there phyically, enjoy the vicarious visit via webcam.

Oh, to dip my hand, and say, "I'm REALLY here." Um...

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

And the vacuum was produced by a steam ejector, rather than a pump. So no continental style 'panting'.

The exception was the GWR which used a crosshead driven pump instead of a small ejector, but because
this worked in time with the cylinder and coupling rod there was no discernible extra noise.

• The vacuum brake (Wikipedia)

I think that's the reason; the Brits used vacuum actuated brakes, the French used compressed air (the Westinghouse system). My dad had been a railway engineer at Schneider-Le Creusot, and always talked down the vacuum actuation system because the maximum pressure available was one atmosphere, 15psi...
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

Raining still in some pictures.

It thundered here last night. I immediately thought of PM.

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.10 user Mcneacail.

Do you think AR would have been careful in setting his times in the novels to allow for the trains?

I was reading where in St Louis in the 19th century if your train was a late you coul dspend a day in St Louis waiting for the next train. And someone says planes are better?

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.10 user Mcneacail.

Alan; a lovely detailed reply. Transports me to another time and place.

Mind you, nostalgia for bygone train journeys is easily overdone. When I was a nipper we made a lot of train journeys from London across France to Geneva (from one family settlement to another). And yes, there were wonderfully exciting details that have stuck in my mind; starting in 1946, the French stations were seriously damaged. In Dieppe, if I remember right, the tracks had been laid on the street, as the main line had been duffed up during the pre-D-Day interdiction campaign. That was a real thrill- the train rolling over the top of the cobbles. Bridges were out too; you'd roll past miles of burnt out rolling stock and red rusted engines, then the track would divert down a temporary ramp to ground level and onto an Army engineers' girder bridge just a metre or two above the water. I was the perfect Rogerish age, never forgot it all... And whenever we stopped in a station, you could hear the Westinghouse compressor on the side of the engine, at the front, panting away as it kept the air for the brakes topped up. I have to say that even now, 65 years on, a train stopped in a station brings back that noise- yesterday I took the electric train from Victoria home to Peckham Rye, and Victoria still has some of the features I remember from that first rail journey. The Westinghouse compressor noise has of course been replaced by the purr of the modern rotary job, but the train is miraculously smooth and quick... I was, oddly, thinking back to that journey to France in '46.

Of course in those days there were also the copious smuts that got everywhere, and the express train would do maybe 30 mph, on a good day. And on arrival in Paris, the porter collected our luggage and hauled it across to my aunt's house on a wooden cart. Streets full of Jeeps and MPs with white helmets. It was a hell of a long trip, but a wonderful experience.

That was 1946; three years later I had to choose a book for a form prize and I asked for S&A, which my mum read with me. My copy of S&A still has the form prize sticker in it, proving that there was a time when I was a Good Boy.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

It was good to see a review that made similar points to my own!
posted via 2.25.182.166 user MTD.

JMN

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

53:59N - 1:33W

Obviously lives at the above location and is a relative of Maria Turner.

That would explain the nasty side of the review.

Of course he may just be an old sod.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I had read Arthur Ransome quite a bit at prep school, but only because it was something I was supposed to do, like running around games fields and eating scrambled egg made out of a powder.

He certainly wasn't predisposed to like Ransome-based material.

One review isn't a statistic, but it would be interesting to know if the appeal of the musical is more that it is Ransome, than it is a good show in its own right.
posted via 74.196.16.245 user dthewlis.

• Telegraph review

Some however never get to grow up to be old men like most of us. Liam Wild, my nephew who was 28 died a few days ago. He had CF, a most terrible disease.

I will miss him terribly.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

From what I remember the Green Sailors books were aimed at a slightly older age group than S&A and were all concerned with big boat sailing with Uncle George in the 1950s. Though father, also a naval officer like Cdr Walker did make an appearance.
posted via 82.110.109.210 user MartinH.

I finally decided to write a book on Children's lit in the last 100 years, entitled:

"Why Randi, Titty and Pussy worked then but not now!"
Subtitled: Gay adventures with my GA in 1920's Scotland on a Sunday.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I remember my first visit to Disneyland in California with a couple of friends. We were in our early 20s and one of the staff greeted a group of us with the memorable statement "Hi, I'm Randy", to which my only possible reply was "So am I but I don't go around announcing it loudly to complete strangers".
posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

• Santaman link

Excellent site.
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Case in point "Randy - short for randall" is perfectly ok in the US and absolutely not in Australia.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Plenty to occupy any reader!

• Tor.com Blog

2. When we climbed Old Man, I told her, also aged nine, that she got one third of her chocolate at the halfway point up, on top and on way down. If she complained or asked for chocolate before those points I would eat her one third share. She did about 1/6th of the way up and I ate it. She stopped complaining on the day, but has berated me with this story for ever.

Statistics: If one has 4 children then there are 0.5**4 combinations, which is 16. Of these only 1 has all four boys, which is a 6.255 chance, same with girls, the table is merely the binary numbers from 1 to 16 with zero shown -

0 0 0 0 4
0 0 0 1 3
0 0 1 0 3
0 0 1 1 2
0 1 0 0 3
0 1 0 1 2
0 1 1 0 2
0 1 1 1 1

So not caring if 0 is a girl or a boy, you choose yourself as it is symmetric and therefore irrelevant, there are

combinations:
Boys Girls Total
0 4 1 6.25%
1 3 4 25.00%
2 2 6 37.50%
3 1 4 25.00%
4 0 1 6.25%
16

Therefore there is a 40% ~ chance that a story with 4 children is exactly 2 and 2. Of course the chances that it is the same combination of boy girl, girl, boy is only 1 in 16.

So in court, I would argue that a story in the 1990's set on Peel Island with boy, girl, girl and boy was plagiarized in part from AR, whilst a boy, girl story was not. One would argue on the stats.

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Stronger AR connection, he was quite friendly with Edith Nesbit and her husband, who were both rather left wing, in his bohemian youth. She died in 1924.

And I wasn't suggesting that anyone postulated plagiarism, just that a strong and male-female balanced family is often the core of children's stories, for example, The Children of the New Forest by Captain Marryat has two older boys and two younger girls for example.
posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

The five children, brothers and sisters, are:

Cyril � known as Squirrel
Anthea � known as Panther
Robert � known as Bobs
Jane � known as Pussy
Hilary � their baby brother, known always as the Lamb.
"It" is the Psammead.

http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Five_Children_and_It#Characters

The link shows a nice illustration of the characters dressed in Edwardian style costumes.

Tenuous AR connection - as a child he might very well have been similarly attired!

The children have distinct characters and have to deal with various situations without adult assistance. Where it differs from AR is that the situations arise from 'magic' rather than being based in realism.

posted via 83.104.41.160 user cousin_jack.

Which one? The lift, I mean, not which Eiffel tower? When I rode in it, back in '47 or thereabouts, it was a two-part climb. The first part was up the sloping bit, then a vertical climb up the middle. The sloping bit was fascinating, like a kind of steep mountain railway. I never forgot it. But I was a small boy and of course had Rogerish tendencies.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

It does make sense, of course, to have a neat gender division of central characters, but AR had a number of other family structures in his books (some apparently only ones - or one and a baby - a couple of broods of two, the Eels, etc, etc.) so the 2 boys, 2 girls, the oldest boy being a capable leader and the oldest girl very sensible is not an essential configuration of characters!
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.

I am about to start my 7 year old on all of these series.

Charlotte loved N Drew, but not AR???? She climbed Old Man sailed to the Island and slept in Holly Howe by the age of 9, she had the perfect birthright and just never got into them.

She also screamed out bloody murder in the Eifel Tower lift and I was watched closely by two Gendarmes with machine pistols.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

The lovely wherry yacht in Jon's picture is White Moth owned by John Berry of
Berry Bros. & Rudd who for many years sponsored the Cutty Sark Tall Ships Races.

We passed her while sailing in Hustler 2 from Hunters Yard in April 2011. She
looked a little more run down than she appears in your photo with the seams showing
between some of her planks and a plank missing from her graceful counter stern.

• White Moth

Interestingly the younger boy is nothing like Roger.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Back in the 1980s I saw a version of S&A at the Nuffield Theatre in Southampton which followed the original fairly faithfully. The sailing scenes were created with "proper" boats on a revolving stage. From what remember it was a competent but uninspiring production (probably why I can recall little of it).

A production which kindles interest in the original books must only be to the good. As for adults playing children, this is an established practice for instance in "The Blue Remembered Hills".

posted via 82.109.66.146 user MartinH.

It made me wonder about other examples of stories where characters or plots seem to be clearly or self-evidently influenced by Ransome (especially SA characters/plots). One that has always presented itself to me is the main family in the Narnia books. They appear to be such a reworking of the Walkers that I've never really questioned that that is their origin (despite not having read anywhere that C.S. Lewis ever named Ransome as an influence).

Does anybody know of anything examples?

• Interview with Susan Cooper

The adaptation does not offend me, but does disappoint.
posted via 2.25.162.135 user MTD.

It appears to me that, as soon as you decide to put something on the stage - and especially as a musical - you have to have made a decision that you are not going for realism (unless it's a kitchen-sink drama mostly in one room, perhaps). Now this is a problem with an AR adaptation because it is - on one level - a very realistic novel. On another level, of course, it is all about fantasy and play and it is that aspect of the story that the team behind the stage musical appear to have focused on. Without having seen the production I can't say how successfully, although reviews and comments suggest it might have been very successful.

So once you've decided the children are adults, you either have adults pretending to be children (which rarely works well) or you suspend disbelief - a beard can help with this! Colour-blind casting is a definite advantage of having eschewed realism in casting - once the actors are representing children rather than being children, then all other identities are up for grabs too.

How do you capture that sense of fantasy and play in a stage production? You could decide to have dream sequences, make use of sound effects (like in the 1974 film for Titty's Robinson Crusoe time) or - once you've decided against realism and cast members are playing instruments and cormorants are made out of bin bags - you can visually represent it. So, for Titty, they were priates, so that's what we see (I'm assuming this to be the case).

I really want to see the production - I'm sure I will have criticisms of it and it won't be exactly as I'd have done it myself, but that's just natural. I am, in general, quite excited about it. I, like you, am protective of the source material, but I also appreciate that an adaptation has to be just that.
posted via 90.220.78.102 user Duncan.

I say, go see it if you can. The enthusiasm created for this production may bring a new generation of readers to our beloved series of books.

posted via 184.151.63.167 user rlcossar.

". . .As well as being great fun, the show, at least for adults in the audience, creates a strong undertow of emotion. It seems like an idyllic image of all we have lost, but which we fleetingly recover while the performance is in progress."

posted via 86.184.248.201 user Peter_H.

When the Old Vic production of S&A was first proposed I posted here at some length about what I thought would be the difficulties of such a stage version, and what to me seemed some very odd ideas and values.

Through circumstance and intention I have not seen the production, and have had no inclination to do so. Now having seen the documentary I am even less inclined to see it and have had all my misgivings and doubts confirmed.

The very notion of creating a musical (or musical theatre) from a classic work of literature (some not familiar with AR would probably dismiss it as such though possibly agree it is classic children�s literature) has always been to me an odd one. At a far more populist level what was ever gained by converting �Pygmalion� in to �My Fair Lady� or �Oliver Twist� in to �Oliver�?

Worse than this ruination of the book, the Old Vic production uses S&A as a foundation and then proceeds to change and distort the story to create what it needs. S&A is a serious novel in the main, yet scenes and sub-plots seem to have been changed in ways that undermine the original work. For example, Titty�s night alone when she sees the two burglars bury Captain Flint�s trunk they have stolen from the houseboat (which in the production has now become a sailing vessel) is presented as a dream sequence involving two trunks being buried by four pirates dressed in eighteenth century costume (in the manner of Johnny Depp in 'Pirates of Caribbean'.) This �comic� costuming is repeated in the Captain Flint walking the plank scene, and his surfacing from the lake is played for �laughs�.

The casting of the production is very questionable (and as before I will not get involved in a long discussion over the matter of using a black actor, only to say that it still appears to be nothing but a misguided gesture of equality and political correctness at the expense of the original work.) Getting adults to portray children is not a new idea, but to be successful it has to be convincing and this was not � men with beards, mismatched ages are just two of the issues.

Any theatrical production of a work such as S&A will have a major problem when much of it takes place in boats on the water (in the 1980s Alan Ackybourn set his play 'Way Upstream' on a holiday cruiser � in the manner of the Hullabaloos � a setting that required the building of a massive water tank in the National Theatre in London, which was prone to leaks and so delayed in the opening night.) The Old Vic attempts to overcome this difficulty with suggestive props and puppetry, most of which, judging by what was shown in the documentary, fail to convince. This was brought in to stark contrast when watching the War Horse documentary immediately afterwards � the puppet horse are convincing as horses from the first sight of them.

The 1974 film of S&A has on this forum often been criticised for its plot, casting and failing to follow the original work. Though, as I have previously posted, on a recent viewing of it I was pleasantly surprised and reminded what a good film it was. Those of you following Sophie Neville�s blog expanding on her childhood diary of the making of the film, will have learnt more about it and I hope, like me, now have a better appreciation of it and the problems the producers had in achieving its authenticity.

In comparison with the 1974 film the Old Vic stage production at best can only be described as an embarrassment, a travesty of a much respected and enjoyed work. It is depressing that most of the press reviews in the UK have been favourable, but it is worth noting that in many the reviewer admits to either not having read the book or actively disliking it.

I first read S&A nearly fifty years ago, and have over the years occasionally re-read it. In the age of the Internet it has enabled me to discover and explore AR's work to a depth I would have never previously imagined. Consequently, I have, as I am sure others have, become very protective of the books but would support any moves to widen their popularity. I post this in that spirit.

[For anyone who would like to see the documentaries they are being shown again on More 4 at 2.10am tomorrow morning (2nd) with the War Horse one first and the S&A at 3.15am.]
posted via 2.25.162.135 user MTD.

Were the Divisional Officers (DOs) of Commander rank? From my experience of Dartmouth and Raleigh in the 70s they were Lieutenant Commanders, though things could have been different in the 30's. I would have expected a Captain in command, Commanders as 2nd in command, head of training, the Paymaster and perhaps one or two others. The DOs would have been under them and a rank junior.
posted via 86.179.129.182 user MartinH.

I was just unaware of how much information went with the picture in JPG format compared to Dick's pictures in the 1930's.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I am sure that like all such bridges a long and complex negiotation occured as to the height, having been party to them I can understand the complexities.

Allowing for all of that, the bridge is still low and I think set low to maintain the roadway.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

But I thought I put up a few posts last night about the photo by Jon taken of the boat just passing through the bridge.

My interest stemmed from trying to decipher the words on the sign.

I used a few tricks in the Picaso editor to sharpen the image and turn it from red to black and then I could read the sign.

I was also intruiged by the amount of information available with the photograph, but most interestingly that the camera said 4:42 am or thereabouts.

Using the sun rise times and allowing for daylight saving, I suspect that the camera time as set incorrectly, but I could be wrong.

Finally the name on the image is not consistent with the image names used by Canon so someone has changed the name to an interesting collection of letters. I wondered who did that.

Finally I asked if I was breaching copyright by playing with the photo for the purposes of fair criticism on the board in which it was posted.

Obviously it appeared so to someone or it got lost in the fray.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

The Kindle ebook of 'Funnily Enough' will be FREE on Amazon Kindle worldwide for 48 hours, from midnight January 1st to midnight January 2nd (Pacific Standard Time)

• Funnily enough a story for you this New Year

The Norfolk and Suffolk rivers have been carrying passengers and freight since before written history. With so much damp boggy ground near the rivers road vehicles would have had a hard time in many places.

So the original 1385 arch would have been built to clear the 'loading gauge' of the river traffic. Some things have changed since 1385:

The Gothic central arch of the bridge (which may have given greater clearance to river traffic) was replaced with the present round arch in the 15th century;

The bridge foundations have sunk down;

Water levels have steadily being going up.

Oh yes, and at some stage the River Thurne changed direction, but I'm not sure whether this was before or after 1385 :-)
posted via 81.219.114.135 user Jock.

If we look at the later Pont y Prydd Bridge, one can see the soln worked out by the builder, who had lost two previous bridges, one to a storm. The PyP bridge gives great clearance, but limits the usefulness of the bridge as a road bridge.

The PyP bridge was the longest single span masonry bridge for a long time, if I have my history correct.

The visible holes in the PyP bridge are designed it is believed to reduce the mass of the haunches, which tend to rotate towards the centre of the bridge once the centring is removed. The very narrow central element of the first bridge failed on removal of the centring.

I understand the builder also used charcoal for the roadway under the cobbles.

So the limited headroom on the Potterham Bridge is the result of three constraints:

1. the limit of the arch span
2. road traffic steepness limit
3. boat traffic

I suspect that the people who wanted the bridge really did not care that much about boat traffic on the river as it would have been of limited size.

The Teasal's design clearly I would suggest, perhaps, shows the influence of the bridges. Then again maybe the boat designer was just odd.

JMN

[ Image ]

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

On discussing my findings with my Mum on Christmas Day, she asked if I'd seen her parents' photo albums, which contain a few images of the "great-greats"...I couldn't recall seeing these, and set to.

Within one of the eighty-year-old books were snaps of my Mum as a toddler with her parents on holiday. The ones that particularly caught my eye were labelled "Norfolk, 1935". :-)

Andy

posted via 90.244.218.4 user AndyG.

Potter Heigham road bridge was rebuilt in 1385, since when it has posed an interesting challenge to navigation and allows exploration of the higher reaches of the Thurne and connected waterways without disruption by the worst type of 'floating caravan' motor cruisers.

It is Potter Heigham railway bridge � which never proved much of a problem � that has been demolished and replaced by a new road bridge.

• Potter Heigham road bridge

And also I now have a Windermere Cruises leaflet for 1985 from Sealink.

posted via 202.154.146.157 user hugo.

• Silt for Xmas!

I proceeded to select a present and explained to the young female assistant, think Titty at 21, that it was for my wife. Without batting an eyelid, she said,"No Sir, that is for you, you need to buy something else for your wife."

I did, she was right and Anne liked the second gift.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Texas is miserable and wet. Lots of presents for the children, Outlaw arrived and I gave it to the 17 year old, who still does not let me forget eating her chocolate on the Old Man.

I am rereading WH, seems like a good idea.

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Rob
posted via 2.26.132.95 user humyar.

Merry or Happy Christmas to all, (depending on the custom where you live).

Claire
posted via 71.87.119.100 user Claire_Morgan.

Happy Christmas to all!

posted via 184.151.63.250 user rlcossar.

An extraordinary event then occurred when Heyman was 38, and feeling that he would never get a Chair. In 1963, a Chair was created at Oxford, and Heyman duly appointed, with the promise of great things to come. However, within a couple of months, it became clear that the funds promised were not available, and there had never been any intention of procuring any. This must be one of the shortest tenured positions held - after only ten weeks, Heyman resigned from the post, never actually having gone to Oxford, although his appointment was duly recorded in the 'Who's Who' of that year.

He 'returned' to Cambridge to find that his lectureship had already been filled, but his letter of resignation was soon found and torn up, so that a new lectureship was effectively created in order to retain this great mind. A couple of years later, in 1971, Heyman was promoted to Reader and then became the first ad hominum Professor in the Department of Engineering.

Heyman had always been a contender for the post of Head of Department to succeed Professor Mair, but with characteristic modesty he states that Shercliff was 'of a different order of brightness'. On Shercliff's death, however, Heyman stepped in to the breach.

His stated aim as Head of Department was "to make the place run as an efficient machine. I tried to be invisible - letting people get on with the research they wanted to do, without filling in forms". To help achieve this end, Jacques was responsible for promoting the key administrative staff to officer level, and thus effectively creating what is now the office floor. The administrative staff in turn remember his fearsome eye for precision and detail.

He is one of the world's experts on structures.
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I forgot that the instructions tell you to refer to Jonnatts.jpg whereas you have to change this to Jonnatts.JPG i.e. capital letters for JPG

Rob
posted via 2.26.167.179 user humyar.

However, I have just heard that all the boats have been transferred to Martham Boats to augment their existing fleet, so at least they are in good hands. But this means the boatyard itself may be at risk - the position by the river in the middle of one of the classic broads villages, means it could be sold for development. Does anyone know more about its future?

Here's a picture of the yard (hopefully!)

Rob
posted via 2.26.167.179 user humyar.

• Wikipedia Heymann disambiguation page

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I gave Thompson initials to help avoid confusion with William Thomson (no P) (better known by his later title Lord Kelvin). However it turns out I needn't have bothered, as I now see from Wikipedia that Thomson was at Cambridge too.
posted via 2.25.105.131 user eclrh.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Ok, so Cambridge had a few half baked old academics, but who does it have now?

Grinning like Roger.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Cambridge is usually regarded as the most prestigious British university for the sciences. Newton, Darwin, JC Maxwell, JJ Thomson, Rutherford, Crick/Watson etc etc were all students and/or staff there at various times in their lives.
posted via 2.25.105.131 user eclrh.

I mistyped Tarboard and found out that there is a word called Tarb. It is capitilized and means someone who argues on a Board like this, just for the sake of the argument.

Sounds like the Oxford Union to me, do you reckon Dick went to Oxford or Cambridge?

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.7 user Mcneacail.

In the ad for the plumber he talks about pumps, which meshes with the use of tanks from spring feed water.

England is lucky in terms of riparian water and a constant supply. However the laws that have developed from this constant supply are hard to apply elsewhere as the Judges believe the Common Law is unchangeable.

JMN

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

In the early books, Ted Walker is first mentioned as living on a destroyer, being at Malta and under orders for Hong Kong. This was not unusual for the period - at this time several new cruiser and destroyer classes were entering RN service, and it was usual to have a short commission (usually to the Med) to work the new ship up followed by a long commission, either to the Far East (see HMS Devonshire as an example) or to another station.

As a Commander, Ted Walker would either command his own ship (a destroyer), or he would be XO (Executive Officer, second in command) of a destroyer flottilla leader (the flotilla leader was and is always commanded by a captain). He might also be on a cruiser or battleship, in which case he would be either one of the department heads or XO. We aren't told whether or not he changed ship in the first few books but as Ted Walker is described as being in Hong Kong it is likely he was on a destroyer or cruiser, as the battleships on the Far East station were not usually based there for any length of time and as Ted Walker was too senior to command any smaller vessel.

The Shotley posting is interesting. Ted Walker would have been posted to HMS Ganges (RNTE Shotley) as there was no other RN establishment in the area, and he was almost certainly the head of one of the divisions at HMS Ganges (there were 8 at this time).
With that said, Harwich was one of the sub-commands of Commander-in-Chief The Nore, and this meant the the Captain of HMS Ganges was what they call double-hatted as Senior Naval Officer Harwich. This gave him an operational role in peacetime. Ted Walker might therefore have been going up to the Admiralty to get operational orders for a secondary (double-hatted) role within the the Nore command. Such a role would not be in the intelligence branch (these posts were at Chatham with the rest of the staff supporting C-in-C The Nore), but might have been linked to the minor vessels (minesweepers and the like) which were usually based in Harwich. It might also have been linked to the destroyers and submarines which used the floating dock below HMS Ganges as a detached/forward operating base.

(For those of you who don't know, the Nore is a sandbank in the Thames Estuary north of Sheerness and it is generally accepted as the point where the Thames ends and the North Sea begins. These days it's marked by a big navigation buoy (Sea Reach No 1), but in the 1920s and 1930s it was marked by a lightship - which is shown on the map in We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea. C-in-C The Nore was responsible for the defence of the sea approaches to the London and the southern half of the East Coast, and as such it was a major and very prestigious RN command, always held by an Admiral or Vice-Admiral.)

posted via 90.228.216.5 user RichardL.

[ Image ]

posted via 194.80.32.8 user IanEN.

• The Railway Children

Does anyone have access to the old newspapers from the 1930's for the Lake Disrict?

British Library Newspapers aims to acquire all newspapers published in the United Kingdom and in the Republic of Ireland, including free newspapers, and our collections of newspapers from the British Isles are the finest in the world...

Our holdings of British national and provincial papers from the mid-19th century to the present are fairly comprehensive, although some gaps remain...

The British Library newspaper index can be searched free of charge; access to the full text of articles in behind a subscription door.

• The British Library � newspaper collection

In Baghdad we had the opposite problem during much of the year. Water was kept in tanks on the flat roof. It was heated by the sun so that it was impossible to get cold water without putting it in the fridge in bottles.
posted via 99.226.102.64 user Adam.

But like most systems then, the mains water fed a large tank under the roof, which fed the rest of the house by gravity. Water companies insisted on this arrangement because it dispensed them from any requirement for a continuous supply, as households had a standby supply on tap. It also ensured that there was a clear break in the line; at the time there was a real possibility that germs could make their way back up the erratic supply so that a sick person in one house could infect a whole district.

I imagine that Beckfoot/Lanehead would have something of that kind.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

My thoughts exactly. Brilliant!
posted via 91.94.135.48 user Jock.

Welcome to the "my Gosh you want me to do what club, or does anyone have a cherry picker close."

Old buildings are nasty to check.

In terms of the movemen, with a building this old it probably moved a century ago and stopped. If I remember correctly Ransome made some comment about the condition in PM, which I am sure Ed can put up for us.

I am glad the BS found it to be mostly ok, otherwise the next step is the one I set out, one has to prove it is safe and to do that one needs measurements.

A small team here has been working on Narbonne Cathedral for about 30 years and we are maybe 25% done. If someone had to pay for the time it would be in the millions.

If you can reuse the slates, then I think you can probably do it ofr less than 30k.

Regards

JMN

posted via 165.91.199.3 user Mcneacail.

The FC Land Agent is getting a couple of quotes, so when these are available, we can assess the funding options. I suspect it's most likely going to be a mix of donations and grant applications. Juggling these might be problematic, I suppose we keep going til we reach the target!

I'm also tryig to see if there's anything volunteers could do such as clear the ground around to allow the scaffolding to be put up.

Hopefully more news fairly soon

posted via 2.26.146.236 user humyar.

• Egg Collector jailed

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

Incidentally, the back wall tapers inwards on both sides - at the top it must be quite thin.

I'm waiting to hear about their surveyor's visit. As soon as we have that we can formulate a plan of action - fundraising and writing bids for grants probably. If the Heritage Lottery Fund can give the steamboat museum �7.4m, maybe they can give the Dogs Home �30k...
posted via 2.26.167.45 user humyar.

The story mentions the AR connection. Looks like Elizabeth Jolley's vote was the winner!

• London architects win Lake District steamboat museum contest

Nonsense, if they could sail around the world aboard the Wild Cat and across the North Sea on the Goblin and cruise the Hebrides on the Sea Bear all without a head, as well as camping out on Wild Cat Island, Swallowdale, on High Topps, Swallow Island and the Dogs Home with no facilities, there would be no need for such unnecessaries at Beckfoot.
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

There are a series of books starting with Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie that are as great as old AR at his best. The young lady is Nancy and Dick crossed. Treat your children over 5th grade to them and read them yourselves.

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.7 user Mcneacail.

I never really leave, I just act like a ghost, just reading.

You realize that some people are going to get very upset about plumbing, even though it is my favourite topic.

Of course we never mention the outhouse that they must have had at Beckfoot.

JMN
posted via 165.91.199.7 user Mcneacail.

Could just tell them to work that handle up and down, and the water will come out, eventually. Or just leave a pitcher on the nightstand by the bed.

Getting water from the river or from the lake?

Pass on the plans for Beckfoot plumbing as a good model, and tell them to do it that way. You do have those plans, don't you?

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

I'm just pleased to see you back again on TarBoard, John!
posted via 178.37.130.26 user Jock.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Let me be the first I hope to wish you a very Merry Christmas.

Warm regards

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

The issue of a bowed wall is always an interesting one with a masonry building. Very many masonry buildings have bowed walls, as Heymann from Cambridge noted, this is not a problem unless it is moving. Heymann wrote the definitive text on this subject.

I can make a finite element model of the dog's home in a few hours, but I would need the following information.

At every 250 mm around the base drop a stringline from the eaves and measure the offset to the wall. A measurement every 250 mm vertically would be great. A good way to spend a day in the field with your oldest son, tell him it is like measuring an old boat.

Do the same for the inside and measure the thickness of the walls at the doors and the windows and the eaves.

Try and get some photos to determine if rocks go all the way through.

Once we have an FEM model we can determine the stability and then map out a plan to fix it.

Demolition is always a last resort that one does relucantly. There are more than enough skills in the different groups to avoid that problem.

I suggest you do as for Swallow and start a verbal appeal. Gives you a solid bargaiing point if you have an amount promised. We know these old codgers are good for the money.

JMN

posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

http://englishlakes.co.uk/watersports/web_cam.aspx

Seems like the lake is rather full today, with the jetties under water. Last night a bit windy, with WAVES with white caps washing ashore, while today, all seems rather calm.

Now, if I could only just stick my hand in the water, and truly "be there" but... tht webcam will have to do. Just not quite like the real thing.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

• Lakeland Cam

• Lake District--today's pictures

As ever, I'm impressed by the generosity of AR enthusiasts especially those living away from the UK.

We need to wait to see what the building surveyor says later in December before launching a donations scheme - it may be beyond repair, or cost so much that it is unaffordable. I'm still hopeful that TARS will chip in money too. I suspect though, it will cost more than donations alone could achieve, and these would have to be matched by bids to UK grant givers such as the National Heritage Fund which derives its income from the UK lottery. I've started to look at local funders too. Donations though would help in three ways - it helps raise some of the money needed; it shows grant givers that there is a desire to save the building; and 'matched funding' plays well with grant givers.

Rob
posted via 2.29.56.143 user humyar.

Claire
posted via 71.87.119.100 user Claire_Morgan.

thanks for the link Adam
posted via 134.117.251.6 user rlcossar.

The purple route could even become the Picts and Martyrs trail!

A nice coincidence with the fact that purple is the colour used on the dust jacket of the Cape editions of P&M.

I'm not sure whether you were intentionally referring to this.
posted via 2.25.105.131 user eclrh.

Rob, whatever your project to restore the Dog's Home may need:
donations, members, publicity, or whatever, you can count on my support.
posted via 62.148.66.96 user Jock.

It is sad that most TARS members feel the same way about the TARS forum,there are many serious and not so serious discussions regarding the Society there, it is therefore a chance for the average member to get involved with the Society.

posted via 97.97.74.217 user TARSUS.

• Telegraph article on S&A Musical

Rob seems to have found a sympathetic and helpful ear. Those of us across the seas can really only provide moral and possibly financial support unfortunately. I am glad I did get to see the Dogs Home, I hope that it can be saved for many more to see in the future.

With the possibility of the new S&A film boosting Ransome interest, it would be a shame to lose one of the Lakes' Ransome landmarks.

posted via 99.226.100.152 user Adam.

Has this been brought up on the official TARS website yet? I never go there, but this does seem like a project that may need official backing from an existing organization like TARS.

Again, thank you for your efforts, and for sharing the information with us. I look forward to hearing more when the surveyor has had a chance to look the building over.

Claire
posted via 71.87.119.100 user Claire_Morgan.

Mark quickly identified one major problem: the roofing timbers are rotten which has caused the tiles to come off. Indeed we found a piece of rafter with some tiles still attached on the ground at the back! Looking inside, the main central beam isn't even attached to the eastern end gable. This could be rot, or could be indicative of the bigger problem: the end eastern gable wall is bowing outwards significantly and may have pulled clear of the central beam.This is clear on the Lakeland Cam photo too.�

Mark thinks the roof needs a complete replacement; but actually worse is that first the walls need stabilising or even rebuilding in places. He reckons there's not much point in doing a temporary roof repair, nor would it be easy to do as the rotten and broken timbers wouldn't hold any roof nails.

So we agreed that he will get the Forestry Commission (FC) building surveyor to assess the damage and estimate the costs of the works needed. It may be that the FC could help with such things as getting tools and equipment and materials up to the site, and even supply local timber for the rafters, battens etc, but otherwise they don't really have money for this sort of restoration project. There is though a dire warning that as the FC has a responsibility for public safety, it may be that the building would be declared unsafe and levelled. I did ask that it could be fenced off instead.

We talked about bidding for grants for any works, and we agreed that working in partnership was a positive for this, as would be a package with an interpretative noticeboard at the car park explaining the Dogs home and encouraging families especially to walk to it (he said the FC has a workshop where such a sign might be constructed).

Other ideas we touched on were rebuilding a charcoal burners wigwam � the FC have a map with all such features identified on it; and whether TARS or another group of volunteers could effectively adopt the route including doing some work on the path (it needs localised drainage) and generally keeping an eye on it and the car park. The purple route could even become the Picts and Martyrs trail! I have to say I found all this really exciting.

I will report further when the surveyor has done her work. I am happy to keep up my involvement and if necessary put in grant bids and maintain any partnership with the Forestry Commission.

So in one way the rush to do something urgently has gone - because it is just not practicable - but there is a bigger task to achieve significant funding for a bigger but long term restoration, and to develop a wider perspective of what could be achieved here.

posted via 2.26.139.142 user humyar.

Does anyone know whether it's being sold as a going concern, or reverting to a private house?
posted via 2.26.139.142 user humyar.

Like you Jock I had holidays on the Broads in the early 60s (I was around 12/13).
posted via 2.25.159.166 user MTD.

Amazing!

Not only has the film maker captured a huge amount of detail of the lost places on the Broads
including the erstwhile Potter Heigham and Breydon railway bridges, but also the film is very
professionally shot on 16mm stock, not the usual blurry, shaky 8mm.

I'm going to purchase my copy straight away. Thank you very much for highlighting this.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot, my first holiday on the Broads was circa 1965.

• 1930s Cine Film, Part 1 (blog synopsis)
• Boating on The Norfolk Broads in the 1930s (YouTube trailer)

There is also a 40 minute DVD available for purchase for �10 of two holidays which were filmed by a family from Leeds in 1932 and 1933, on Margolettas, available from Broadland Memories . This site also has a huge bank of photographs if you click on archives, divided into decades, and also a short excerpt of the DVD to watch. There are two clips from the DVD on YouTube as well - you search on Broadland Memories. In fact one of the two holidays on film took place in May 1933 which I think is the very month that AR was there sailing too.

Rob

posted via 2.26.139.142 user humyar.

• The Broads Remembered by Nat Bircham.

(A hat tip to Andrew Craig-Bennett for showcasing films from the East Anglian film
archive in another place.)
posted via 87.204.177.240 user Jock.

which, for the information of anyone reading this who doesn't know, existed until the creation of Cumbria in 1974, and included a big wedge of the southern Lake District, including Coniston (town, Water and Old Man) and almost reaching to Ambleside.
posted via 2.25.105.152 user eclrh.

And there wouldn't be a need to pay out all that much anchor chain at the edge of Hamford Water.
posted via 178.37.130.224 user Jock.

He [John] scrambled to his feet and looked at the chain, which ran from a fairlead at the stemhead to a small windlass.

Whether the main anchor had been recovered or not, it's likely that Goblin would have been lying to her kedge off Swallow Island anyhow since she was only there to maroon/rescue the explorers. Off Pin Mill, she had her own mooring.
posted via 71.178.225.121 user Jon.

I just noticed this last night. It's from Peter Duck winding up his yarn. But I wonder if Ransome wrote this and thought, perhaps, of the Collingwood girls: his Bohemian years were certainly a little bit piratical, and he'd tried wooing both!

Andy
posted via 90.244.219.89 user AndyG.

There are very robust, very basic - often two speed - mechanical winches. I would think GOBLIN must have had one of these.

Now, we know that Jim Brading was very strong - Susan certainly noticed - but pulling up chain is a struggle.

The Mighty MARGOLETTA has 400 feet of 5/16" HT chain, and a 65# anchor, I hope the winch keeps on working....

posted via 50.98.34.159 user captain.

Anchor chain and anchors are heavy. Wouldn't GOBLIN have at least a mechanical winch? Does the NANCY BLACKETT?
posted via 50.98.34.159 user captain.

Robert Watson-Watt (see the Chain Home article) believed that �third best� would do if the second best would not be avaliable in time and the best not at all. So the Chain Home system was avaliable for the Battle of Britain; the German Freya syatem was technically superior but only had a few stations working.

The 1937 episode referred to by Jock above involved Airborn not Ground radar equipment which Bowen was developing from 1936, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Watson-Watt

posted via 202.154.155.202 user hugo.

"Arthur Ransome, author of "Swallows & Amazons", most celebrated of his many delightful children's novels enjoyed an equally fascinating life story. He settled in Furness & based his favourite adventures here on Coniston Water and Windermere - the scenes of euphoric boyhood holidays..."

I am not sure the word "settled" would ever have been appropriate for Ransome, at least for very long. And I'm confused by the reference to Furness in any case. Can anyone shed light on this? Or has Mr. Parker very uncharacteristically got something wrong?
posted via 74.196.16.245 user dthewlis.

• BawdseyRadar

The website includes an 'oral history' section. In it there is an interesting account by a Bawdsey researcher called Keith Wood which mentions contacts between the Radar team and the Royal Navy.

In September '37, which was about 18 months from when we started my boss Bowen had got contacts in London and found out that Coastal Command and the Navy were going to have fleet exercises in the North Sea...

I was lucky enough to draw the straw for going with him and we took off on September 4th at 5 o'clock in the morning with almost zero visibility at Martlesham aerodrome - we were content to do that because we had already produced a radar beacon for our own usage to locate back to Martlesham...

When we got back, having used our radar again to get back to the coast and get back to Martlesham, Bowen rang the Coastal Command operational controller, reported in the latitude and longitude of where all the ships were and this chap was absolutely astounded...

Click on the link below for the full account:

• Airborne radar development

By coincidence this was all happening at about the same time as WD was hitting the shops for the pre-Christmas present-buying spree.

posted via 213.241.60.247 user Jock.

There has been some speculation about Commander Walker's possible connection with Naval Intelligence. And while the timing might have been wrong for when WD and SW were set, things were certainly heating up more by when they were written. Was there any Naval Intelligence connection with the radar installations going up on the coast (i.e. that would have explained more ambiguous postings in the area).
posted via 74.196.16.245 user dthewlis.

Was there another establishment nearby that Commander Walker would be involved with? Something experimental? And would this tie in with his return overland instead of by sea (either by troopship or taking passage in a returning warship).

I know it is immaterial to enjoyment of the book and their parents had to be absent to allow the Swallows the freedom to camp and explore on their own but do any forum members have any private theories?

posted via 82.109.66.146 user MartinH.

It's a really entertaining read, and there've been a few nuggets of information I didn't previously know.

• Sophie's Swallows and Amazons Film Blogs

I've followed your suggestion and emailed them some comments. My vote for the Top Three would be Designs E, C, and G, in that order.

posted via 203.129.59.190 user mikefield.

It would be worth while posting your report on the TARS site as well.

PS for those who would like to vote on the Steam Boat museum designs, submissions have to be in by the 9th November

posted via 80.189.217.237 user OwenRoberts.

The first bad news is that Hugh didn't know of the existence of the Dogs Home, though the Forest Ranger, Mark, did but didn't know the AR connection... However, they are now aware and will log this fact.

The second bad news is that though Hugh was very interested and sympathetic, there are of course budgetary constraints so I doubt any money at all would be forthcoming from them.

The slightly better news is that they do employ a buildings surveyor and Hugh is going to ask him to have a look at the Dogs Home, hopefully in the next week. I offered to be there as well. This might mean that a long term plan for the saving of the Dogs Home could be produced, but would need funding.

The best news is that they are interested, and they are happy to work in partnership with another group. This is a much better attitude than many organisations would have. They are also interested in the idea of an information board at Machell Coppice car park. (I also spoke to them about the demise of the charcoal burner's wigwam which was in Satterthwaite forest, and they are even interested in another such reconstruction!)

Initially it is vital just to get the slates back in place, though the wooden battens might be rotten. However, nowadays this might mean erecting scaffolding which would be an expensive operation given the location, though again the Forestry Commission might be able to help deliver materials nearer to the site. So this might mean anything from �500 (two days work by a roofer with a ladder) to �5k just to safeguard it for now. Any future work would be dependent on a proper survey.

After visiting Grizedale I went on to the Dogs Home. An immediate point is that far more could be made of the Dogs Home's existence - the information board for example, but the route through the woods past it is best done anti-clockwise so you approach it from the front. However, how to do this isn't obvious as there are actually two car parks and the route is a loop that goes off from both. Incidentally, it's the purple route - the colour of the dustjacket of PM!

At the Dogs Home, there are also tiles off on the back roof as well as the front ones shown on the Lakeland Cam. The east wall is leaning slightly, though I think this is long-term. There is the odd stone missing, and some of the internal rendering has gone. I couldn't see the roof beams and battens well enough to check their condition. The door is a mess, but that is easier to deal with.

I am still waiting to hear back about what the TARS board thought of my suggestion that it would be appropriate to spend some of the TARS reserves on projects like this. I really think that to get some basic protective work done quickly that this is the best chance. Perhaps people could lobby their local Board member to try and achieve this! In the meantime it would be good to gauge the feeling about a separate appeal, bearing in mind it could need �500 to �5k. If anyone knows a roofer or a surveyor to assess the immediate work needed, please let me know. I can offer a free weekend in the Lake District in return...

Rob
posted via 2.26.132.48 user humyar.

As I said, I felt they would appreciate comments by email based n these photos.

Rob
posted via 2.26.132.48 user humyar.

Thanks, Dave. If I may, I would also add the Arthur Ransome Trust (ART) - a recently-formed independent charitable trust with the ultimate aim of establishing an Arthur Ransome Centre in the Lake District.

posted via 109.153.89.248 user Peter_H.

Quite right about the original TarBoard and kudos to Ian Edmondson-Noble. And you can add the original Arthur Ransome website to that. And All Things Ransome, for that matter.
posted via 75.111.69.24 user dthewlis.

Keep posting info about the Dog's House.

Eric Abraham - Lucas, Kansas - Where you expect the unexpected!
posted via 199.87.205.144 user EricAbraham.

Certainly I would be prepared to contribute to the repairs.

Not sure the having the building listed would help. it would take time and the fact of listing you be no guarantee of maintenance. One can cite examples where listed buildings are being left to rot.
posted via 80.189.217.237 user OwenRoberts.

It's not owned by the National Trust as I understand, but by the Forestry Commission. I have written to the Chair and Secretary of TARS to find out if the Board agreed any actions about my proposal that TARS use some of its reserves to fund various things including this, and also offering to work with one or two others to try to sort the situation out (e.g. emergency repairs). I would hope to get a reply over the weekend, and then it would be worth contacting the Forestry Commission with some positive news. Otherwise I would be willing to contact them anyway to see what they might be prepared to do.

Rob

Otherwise, it may be that an appeal needs to be launched, but this will take time. If there were some early indications of forthcoming support, it might be possible to get remedial work done urgently. On Monday I'm in Ambleside anyway, so could go on to visit the Dogs Home to see whether it is more than just the roof that has deteriorated. I could also try calling in at the Forestry Commission HQ in Grizedale.

My other thought is whether we try to get it registered as some sort of listed building - I have been to several meetings with the LDNPA and other local bodies and there does seem to be a growing interest in the importance of the books and AR to the local economy.
posted via 2.26.132.48 user humyar.

• Ransome's house

[ Image ]

posted via 203.129.59.190 user mikefield.

I think the best move is to look for 'Oxenholme railway station' on Google Street view. That has excellent views from the bridge, and from the road that runs down parallel to the tracks to the west. You can choose your favourite viewpoint.

Another splendid (but of course very different) view is of Low Ludderburn. You get crystal clear views of the house the Ransomes lived in, the garage they built for Rattletrap, and AR's study/barn. Powerfully evocative.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

Claire
posted via 71.13.171.85 user Claire_Morgan.

Ransome tells us that this was a question that was
frequently put to him, a question resulting from the
impression a reader gets that these characters have
personalities. They speak and perform according to
those personalities. We get to "know" them so well
that when one of them has a line to say, for the most
part, it is not necessary to add to that line who said
it. From knowing these people as well as we do, we
just know who would have said something like that.
That this question is asked is actually a strong
accolade to the author praising him for doing such a
good job of making his characters so well known to his
readers.

The "places" are also questioned as to "Where are they
really?" But as a writer of fiction, the author can
choose certain real locations and incorporate those
places into his story and also feel free to rearrange
the geography so that object in the fictional account
is some different place totally unrelated to its real
location.

Among the fans of these Ransome stories there is much
exploring done to try to uncover the locations of
certain places described in his stories. There is
actually a hut whose description closely resembles the
"Dogs' Home" found not far from Beckfoot. The starting
location of "Holly Howe" is taken to be a real
farmhouse across the lake from Coniston. The mountain
called Kenchenjunga in the fictional accounts is taken
to be the "Old Man" behind the town of Coniston, a real
town that somehow does not exist in these fictional
stories. And Wild Cat Island, its "secret harbour" at
least, is taken to be at Peel Island on Coniston.

It is good that certain places from these stories have
been based on some sort of reality that we can actually
go to, actually "see", and actually share the
experience of "I was really there, where it all
happened." But these stories are still fiction,
although we do not want to believe it as such, because
to us, "they are real." And in that feeling, we find
the true skill of the fictional author, to be able to
create that feeling of reality in a work of fiction.

Not being able to get to these REAL places and see for
myself, there is that little detail that hopefully
someone who can actually SEE for himself can answer for
me. I wonder sometimes about certain features as to
whether those features are just a part of the fictional
account, or are these features REALLY there. I am
referring here to certain details about the "secret
harbour" on Wild Cat Island, as to whether these
details are also true about the rocky southern end of
Peel Island, or, is it just fiction.

ITEM ONE: On Wild Cat Island is this "secret harbour"
which can be entered, very carefully, avoiding the
rocks close by, some unseen underwater, by moving in on
a very straight line, like staying in the center of a
very narrow channel.

Is there such a STRAIGHT LINE channel through the rocks
on Peel Island?

ITEM TWO: On Wild Cat Island, this straight line
channel is identified by the navigation of the channel
while keeping in a line two objects: a white cross
painted on a stump near the landing place, and the fork
of a tree with a big patch of bark off it below the
fork.

Is there a stump on Peel Island, and a tree with a fork
behind it that can be used to locate the channel?

If there is such a stump on Peel, has anyone painted a
white cross on it?
------------
What a delight it must be, to "BE THERE" where it all
happened, or at least, be as much "there" as a
fictional location can be. It is with extreme envy
that I wish I could experience that "be there" feeling
that Titty described in Chapter 2 of SD:

"To be back on Wild Cat Island was almost too good to
be true. Titty dipped her hands in the cool water of
the harbour, just to show herself that she was really
there."

Titty - you were so lucky to really be there...

Ed Kiser, Kentucky

posted via 76.177.121.202 user Kisered.

A less-clear photo I have of the other side shows some further shifting of slates at eaves level.

And of less severity, but still a shame, is the amount of rot along the bottom of the door --

• The door of the Dog's Home

[ Image ]

posted via 203.129.59.190 user mikefield.

Title �Is the National Trust aware that it is destroying part of the Lake District�s literary heritage by neglect�

Points to make include
1. Essential factual background to AR�s PM novel.
2. Attention drawn to the problems over 2 years ago.
3. Rapid deterioration � will it survive another hard winter with frost in the walls?
4. Appreciate that in times of budget restraint, money is difficult to find.
5. AR enthusiasts would be willing to donate toward restoration and maintenance.

Conclusion if the NT fails to act it will be exhibiting the worst aspects of an absentee landlord.

Several letters in this vein would raise the level of awareness in the NT.

However if someone has good local contacts with the NT, perhaps a lunch in the right place might not go amiss.

posted via 80.189.217.237 user OwenRoberts.

I am an enthusiast of "before and after" type pictures.

posted via 80.189.217.237 user OwenRoberts.

The fact that such work has not yet been done is not for want of trying on TARS Northern Region's part. Calling down shame in this case is not the answer and such a broadside was uncalled for.

By all means the Dogs� Home should be �conserved�, but the analogy to �Sail Swallow� is false in that the film Swallow�s exciting future is in the hands of its 85 owners, whereas the owners of the Dogs� Home probably don�t even realise its Ransomish significance. It does belong to them, however, and if they�re not bothered about its future then Ransome enthusiasts can�t just charge in and take over. Any �group formed to save the building� has its hands tied immediately if the owners don�t wish such �assistance�.

posted via 80.176.150.81 user robert.

I would gladly chip in for the Dogs Home if someone sets up a fund to do to. I photographed it in 2009 and shared my photos with Roger as well as speculations as to a former second floor. It is one of the 'real' places from the books and it deserves preservation and care. Someone needs to contact the Forestry Commission, to see what can be done to save the building.

Claire
posted via 71.13.171.85 user Claire_Morgan.

it looks far worse than when I was last there a few months ago. The loss of the slates over the walls is particularly worrying as this will allow water into the fabric of the building.

However, while it is not a TARS responsibility I have raised through a letter in Signals the idea of TARS paying for a survey of the Dogs Home and perhaps for remedial works. it seems to me now that this is urgent - at the very least informing the Forestry Commission that there is a group interested in preserving it before they kncok it down on the grounds of public safety!

Rob
posted via 2.26.132.48 user humyar.

In the meantime, design E turned out to use the existing footprint for the wet dock but extending this towards the road into the old car park area for the dry dock/museum area, making a large, low footprint. The cafe was on the side set back from the lake.

I've got notes about the designs if questions come up after the photos appear on the site. There were cards there for people to write their comments, but I think if you emailed info@steamboats.org.uk they would consider it.

Some of the general issues that came out were: the use of the field south of the car park for car parking and in a couple of cases for a new entrance (use of this field is controversial amongst local people); some of the designs involved several separate sheds or apexed roofs - up to 11!; some were single storey others were two, with the cafe and/or museum above the wet dock; some emphasised the wider educational rsources being created; some didn't seem to have a slipway included; one or two featured the cafe perhaps too prominently over the lake and in a modernistic style.

I lodged the Arthur Ransome interest but a couple of designs had picked this up. In one especially the little model boat pond area to the north was used for the cafe but instead they created a new one - in the shape of the lake in the frontispieces! I'd like this feature whoever wins.

I do wonder if we should be pitching for a permanent AR exhibition here - Lakeland Arts Trust have all the stuff at the Museum of Lakeland Life in Kendal, the steamboat museum used to house Cochy and Amazon, Swallow from the film would be very willing to make guest appearances... there's lots of space for e.g. a replica Swallow campsite or a charcoal burnere's wigwam etc etc.

Rob

posted via 2.26.132.48 user humyar.

I can see that there will be a wide variety of opinions here. I also read the followup article which answered my main question - would any of the existing building be preserved. (Apparently not).

I too would like to know what E looks like on the outside. I find F too awkward with the large timbered building in the background, and wonder how some of the smaller appearing designs could accomplish all of the needs of the museum. I also don't like the metal look of A and D.

My favorite by far is B and then H. They both look substantial and have a nice unified design, that would not be as distracting from the lake as some of the others.
posted via 71.13.171.85 user Claire_Morgan.

You mention the catenaries at Oxenholme, but my early (serious) train memories are of crossing France infinitely slowly after the war, going from London to Geneva to visit our family abroad. Of course they were steam trains then, smuts and all, but I'll never forget the panting of the Westinghouse air compressor as we were stopped at the station, then the gradual introduction of electrification. It was so exciting; our journey took us via Dijon, and when they replaced the Mountain class engines (massive 4-8-2 steamers with large diameter driving wheels) with CC electrics, suddenly the journey out of the Rhone valley into the Jura, which had been a spectacular drive with gouts of steam, drama and noise, at maybe 120kph, became an electric elevator... My dad had once been a railway engineer at Schneider, Le Creusot, and he would bring a stop watch and slide rule to measure our speed against the trackside kilometer posts. Climbing steeply at an easy 130kph was such a thrill for both of us; we'd walk up front to talk to the driver when we reached Geneva or Culoz.

But from then on, catenaries were the normal decor- and for me they have been ever since.

• London trams

• Oxenholme then and now

I'm initially inclined to D. This seems to reflect the roof lines of the old boat-builders' sheds, some of which still remain near the ferry. The others seem a mixture of low, flattened rooflines and collections of smaller buildings.

I was surprised how conventional most of them are (except perhaps C), compared to some of the designs around for other lakeside developments.

Rob
posted via 2.26.132.48 user humyar.

• Plans for the museum

They don't visibly tilt very far, although it does make a lot of difference to the ride. First one I experienced was in Switzerland, and I do remember (it was a journey I'd made a number of times) the lovely sensation of swooping through a small marshalling yard- it was so smooth. A real joy. The name's Italian, because they are Italian rolling stock.

• Pendolino

And it may even have worked.

• Oxenholme station

[ Image ]

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

• Oxenholme 360

Deepest apologies...
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

• Oxenholme revived

[ Image ]

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

Clearly, age is doing me down. It happens, but more often these days than I'd like...
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

As someone interested in architecture and design and involved with a historic preservation group, I have a more than ordinary interest in the project.

Claire
posted via 71.13.171.85 user Claire_Morgan.

Rob
posted via 2.29.56.25 user humyar.

Claire
(who lives in the upper Midwest USA and can't visit in person just now).
posted via 71.13.171.85 user Claire_Morgan.

It turns out that she would have needed some supernatural assistance to succeed. I recently found his obituary while googling and he died in Kenya when still quite young in 1967.

See the link below, the obituary doesn't mention Ransome but does give a short appreciation of an enthusiastic ornithologist in colonial and immediately post-colonial Africa.

• Myles North Obituary (1908-1967}

"The plans for the redevelopment of the Steamboat Museum are quickly progressing. In June we launched the RIBA competition to find the architect that will go on to design the new museum facilities, and after receiving 114 expressions of interest the Jury Panel shortlisted eight practices.

The shortlisted teams are:

6a Architects
Adam Kahn Architects
Carmody Groarke
Niall McLaughlin Architects
Reiach and Hall Architects
Sutherland Hussey Architects
Terry Pawson Architects
Witherford Watson Mann Architects

The Trust has now received the eight concept designs from each of the shortlisted teams and will be displaying these at the Marchesi Centre, Windermere on Thursday 3 November between 1.30pm and 7pm.

This is an exciting opportunity to view and comment on the concept designs, and all feedback will be passed onto the Jury Panel before they conduct the final interviews."

posted via 64.124.63.254 user LukeDolman.

The Yangtse is navigable by desytroyers quite a long way inland, see the Amethyst Incident.

posted via 66.46.110.132 user Adam.

The other possibility would be service aboard the Insect class river gunboats on the Yangtse but he would probably have been too senior for that.
posted via 2.97.213.243 user ACB.

• A selection of books and ephemera including Arthur Ransome interest

Looking at the Wikipedia articles, the Australia Station (at Sydney) was from 1913 the responsibility of the RAN not the RN. The New Zealand Station (at Sydney) was established in 1921 and transferred to New Zealand in 1940. From 1913 to 1921 New Zealand was part of the China Station, ie the responsibility of the RN.

So did Ted meet Mary when he was stationed at Australia Station, Sydney (up to 1913)? He would probably have been based elsewhere (home waters?) in World War I. And John must have been born about 1918.

posted via 202.154.142.100 user hugo.

(In 1942 the Mediterranean Fleet was moved to Alexandria however, and was also briefly based at Algiers. Command of the Fleet was also split during the war, and becomes a bit difficult to follow. For a detailed exposition of the Mediterranean Fleet's history, see the link.)

Hong Kong was part of the China Station, a good deal further east. So Ted and/or his vessel would have had to have a different posting if he was to be based there.

• Meditteranean Fleet

[ Image ]

posted via 203.129.59.190 user mikefield.

It's still a great facility to have

Rob
posted via 2.26.139.145 user humyar.

SA:
The female native told stories of old days before they had been born. She talked of Malta and Gibraltar, and of sailing in Sydney Harbour when she was a little girl.

posted via 98.26.127.41 user allym.

In SA of course they write to him at Malta, when his ship was under orders for Hong Kong (SA1). In WH Mother is taking Bridget to Malta to see him now she (Bridget) is a person (WH3; shouldn�t he have left for Hong Kong by now?). Titty writes to him in China (PP23). Later he comes back �overland� from China by train; presumably by the Trans-Siberian Railway (WD1), that achievement of Imperial Russia.

posted via 202.154.140.233 user hugo.

I've never really appreciated how AR's description of the harbour is exactly that - a real place described.
posted via 2.28.76.170 user MTD.

Perhaps next year you might be able to repeat the picture in August, if you have the chance.
posted via 80.189.122.72 user OwenRoberts.

Andy

posted via 90.244.222.41 user AndyG.

Click here to see my picture

Note to ATR people - the "Tarboard Image Upload" page details how you can link to your photo by replacing the example of 'yourfilename.jpg' with your actual file name. I copied this string twice, and replaced the name, and twice it didn't work. This is because it should read:
'yourfilename.JPG' i.e. JPG in capitals!

Rob
posted via 2.26.147.84 user humyar.

The wind was so light we just made it, but it was a great moment. The photo the WG used has disappeared off the website - I've posted another photo taken three days later Click here to see Swallow in Secret Harbour

Rob
posted via 2.26.147.84 user humyar.

Interesting how they try to work East Anglia into the review.

• EADT Review

Here she is in the secret harbour:

posted via 2.26.147.62 user dthewlis.

David
posted via 67.150.13.188 user DavidMaxwell.

(The Margoletta and crew have stopped trying to dock IT ourselves, and always radio ahead for help. (15 tons and 46' LOA) Now, it seems as if everytime I start the engines, everyone in the whole marina suddenly appears bearing fenders, boathooks, and extra lines as if to say, "Oh, oh, here he comes again!" There always seems to be some wise guy on the docks who yells, "I'll let the coast guard know you've left the dock.")

posted via 50.98.34.159 user captain.

The music has morphed - and few old salts from the days of sail would recognize the latest
'hits' as resembling anything that was once sung on deck. But a few first class shanty singers
from Britain � Stan Hughill, Ian Woods and Johnny Collins � did come to the Polish festivals
to lend an authentic sound to the proceedings.

For more about the Krakow festival 'cut and paste' the following URL into Google Translate:

http://shanties.krakow.pl/index.php
posted via 81.219.27.1 user Jock.

Where does one start?
posted via 81.219.27.1 user Jock.

I keep meaning to write up my own childhood stories for the benefit of my daughters. They love to hear about them, but a written record would last, and also give me a secret pleasure in pretending to be an author.
posted via 95.149.116.35 user Magnus.

Today, no Pullman train but a reasonable if expensive service. Getting to the airport by road is chaotic, then the massive but necessary security delays.

Getting back to the original topic, you can still go by train to Beaconsfield station then � mile walk or taxi to Beckonscot. Apart from the model railway, the feature I always remember is the well cut, tidy green lawns.

The trouble is that it is so close; I never visit unless I am taking someone who would like to see the model village.

posted via 80.189.62.66 user OwenRoberts.

Owen Roberts has reviewed the book at the request of the publishers, and has made his review available on All Things Ransome - see Arthur Ransome on Robert Louis Stevenson.
posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

You can go down to the sea, you can go out, but no one says you have to come back.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I have always figured that "getting there was half the fun" - - and why bypass the scenery?
posted via 199.87.201.75 user EricAbraham.

Very sobering indeed.

I will remind everyone to fall in feet first. I had complete faith in the things until I read this.
posted via 2.101.0.30 user ACB.

I was in the HULLABALOO (a 10.6' RIB) powered by SAPPHO (A ten HP- Honda) The Unreliable - returning to the swim grid / stern of the MARGOLETTA.

I've done this a million times before, but it is often tricky when the wind and/or tide are playing tricks.

Oh yes, I was wearing a new, and recently tested, inflatable life jacket.

Well, in reaching for the swim grid - about ten feet long and two feet above the ocean, something happened. I fell backwards, but not out of the dingy, with wrong end of me in the ocean. A neighbor across the ways saw the incident and sounded the alarm.

I was pulled out after awhile, not breathing but I'm told alive-ish. The trigger on the automatic life jacket needed to be in the ocean to trigger, but it wasn't.

I was rushed to ER and ICU where I spent the next 24 hours.

So, be careful about automatic life jackets, and if wearing one, always fall in feet first.
posted via 50.98.34.159 user captain.

One thing that does strike me is that AR's pictures suggest a bigger space than Webb's - AR's spaces are vast - the lake is an inland sea, Horseshoe Cove is a big bay, the mountains are huge and the moors go on for ever.

But that is exactly as the eye of childhood sees them.
posted via 109.169.21.198 user ACB.

What I had not appreciated until I had the book in my hands was that Webb did a full set of the chapter heading pictures and AR also replaced all these.

Webb's drawings are certainly competent but I find them uninspiring, espescially as regards my favourite chapter in all the twelve - "The Able Seaman and the Boy Explore". There is one exception and that is the drawing of Mary Swainson at page 193 which is a gem. In some cases, such as "The Hidden Boat" at page 290, "Night on the Mountain" at page 319, Ransome seems to have followed Webb quite closely.
posted via 92.28.246.140 user ACB.

One can see that CF is ok with guns for ceremonial use, but little else.

Reread the BS dicussion in the Eel Boat.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Peter, I am impressed that you have met Ted Taylor. He, of course, wrote The Curve of Binding Energy to make the case that home-made atom bombs are a real danger. They are, one can knock down a city block and create a panic with an amateur nuclear explosion but only if one can get hold of quantities of tightly-guarded materials. To create a full-scale Hiroshima-style explosion requires a big and heavy device that would be hard to move clandestinely.
Taylor designed small, low-yield devices but didn't stress that he had the advantage of making 20 years of test explosions. Terrorists don't have that option. Even North Korea didn't get it right the first time.

Picric acid is a very unstable high explosive once used in artillery shells. It is quite unrelated to nitrogen iodide.

Once more I detect a certain disconnect from the Arthur Ransome theme!

posted via 108.36.7.104 user Didymus.

I understand that that's trickier than commonly believed. I once got into a fascinating discussion about that with Theodore Taylor, when we flew together from Las Vegas to Detroit.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

When I read that, I was reminded of my time at school when some people (not me) got keen on picric acid- they used to scatter crystals about to kill pigeons, who would peck at them and blow themselves up. I'm not sure if this is the same stuff, although it seems similar.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

When I was in High School in the early 1970's a boy at the school made touch and painted it onto the door handles.

I was going about my Univeristy the other day and a group of outdoor loos had been set up in preparation for a game.

perfect spot for tp I thought

JMN

• Touch Powder

We are now swamped with online manuals that are hyperlinked and supercharged. I just spent a fortnight inside the MSDN and C++ manuals for Visual Studio 2010. It was a less than pleasant experience.

At least with the Navy and the ammo manual you would get drawings and examples. At Microsoft you get : createthread, a brief explanation and no examples. When it does not work one is left to the tender mercies of the internet.

I was using a base code from Microsoft that would not compile on their latest compiler, even though it was the latest kit.

Ransome at least takes you along, MSDN takes you to hell in a basket.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

It is lot harder than it looks.

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

I'm getting old and forgetful, have we already thrashed out the question of life jackets on TarBoard?
posted via 81.219.160.196 user Jock.

• Sophie Neville

if you had �25k to spend on commemorating and interpreting the works of Arthur Ransome,
what do you think are important things to do.

Whereas what TARS should do about 'Rob Boden's strategy' is, as Adam says, more properly
discussed elsewhere, I think that it is entirely appropriate for TarBoarders to discuss the more
general question � which does not mention TARS - as rephrased by Rob.

An index of all the Ransome related material held in various institutions around the world
would be one of my top priorities. This would be a boon for future Ransome researchers.
Would it need �25k to catalogue and compile? I don't know.

From a personal point of view, I would love to see all the S&A canon translated into Polish.
Only SA, SD and PD have been translated, and all three are out of print. Would this need
�25k? Certainly not! Only the price of a few postage stamps. Poles love sailing, sea shanties
and Britain. If the Literary Executors would like to proceed with this, I would be happy to
provide them with a list of the top Polish publishers of children's books.

Anyone with any other ideas?

posted via 81.219.160.196 user Jock.

It is a good idea really, as it demonstrates the degree to which Ransome really inspired, encouraged, educated and invigorated his readers. We are all aware of that, and it is a thing that really does set him apart from other children's writers.
posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

How about a section called, "Inspired by Ransome". I think quite a few TarBoarders would have tales
to tell under this heading!
posted via 81.219.160.196 user Jock.

If a non-member has any ideas perhaps you could privately email Rob or another TARS member (myself for example) to get them added there.

• TARS Forum discussion on Rob's proposals

My main point was to start a debate on ideas both things to be done and how they could be achieved, rather than to publish a finished list. Nor need the debate be confined to TARS members! In a sense, I am simply asking everyone, if you had �25k to spend on commemorating and interpreting the works of Arthur Ransome, what do you think are important things to do. Could I add, that these needn't all be confined to the UK. Digital material for example could be universally available, translations into a new language etc etc.

I'd hope that good suggestions would be listened to by those holding the actual purse strings no matter who puts them forward. The important thing to me is that something is done at this very opportune moment - when there is money, and when interest is already increasing, and may do so exponentially if a new film is released.

Rob
posted via 2.26.132.16 user humyar.

I have some concerns about the state of the Dogs Home, especially the gaps in the roof and (from memory) a possible split in the rear wall between the original end wall and the newer built side wall. However, my suggestions for ways TARS could usefully spend some of its reserves only included the idea of paying for it to be properly surveyed, as I am no expert! This might identify some low cost works that would then need to be considered.

Yes, it is much higher than the drawings, not sure why this was necessary other than perhaps making it more homely, but it distinctly the Dogs Home. There are the remains of a floor about half way up, and I have used this and a hook on another wall to put up a hammock when we recreated the scene a few years ago.
hammock in Dogs Home

Rob

posted via 2.26.132.16 user humyar.

One other thing I noticed is that The Dogs' Home seems to be increasingly encroached upon by trees and bushes. The photos I saw of it before I actually went there (taken at least 10 years or so ago I guess) showed what appeared to be a small clearing in front of it (much smaller than the clearing shown with AR's special "super-wide-angle lens" that he used for the illustrations, but a clearing nevertheless).

Now the trees and bushes are quite close to the front so it feels very enclosed and a bit foreboding, as if savages could leap out of the trees before you had a chance to see them. That feeling is probably partly down to the torrential rain when I was there, which weighed everything down!

• The Dogs' Home in 1996

You certainly should write up this scary adventure in full � and your other four!
posted via 81.219.160.196 user Jock.

I didn't get on round the path any further though, and so I didn't see the smaller building you mapped. I don't suppose you took a photo or two of it by any chance?
posted via 203.129.50.229 user mikefield.

When I lived in the DC area, I would take Amtrak to NYC about once or twice every month, it was fast and efficient. Downtown to downtown. Sometimes the windows were scratched and fogged - but to be able to sit back in a spacious seat and read, or have a conversation (I did get a commission job as a result on one trip) is a delight.

I do not enjoy flying - too small seats (and I am not that large), surly people and the security is not pleasant (a friend was strip searched). I did have to fly to Hawaii, as for some strange reason the train would not go there.

I know in Europe, the trains are all on time (at least they were when I was there) and go just about every where. I did not ride a train in England, but took an intercity bus, which was fun, also.

Eric Abraham - Near the Garden of Eden in Lucas, Kansas
posted via 199.87.200.84 user EricAbraham.

It was an extremely damp day, with continuous pouring rain. No thunder and lightning though, and no seals that I could see. The path was a rocky stream with water sluicing down from the beck.

It is in quite good repair. The walls seem solid enough, just needing a bit of lime mortar pointing here and there, if you were actually living in it. The ridge board has rotted away at one end, against the chimney, and the tiles have slipped a little, so you can see a 2-foot slit of sky from inside, but the purlins are OK so the roof is not going to fall down anytime soon.

The outside is very like AR describes it, but the interior is not quite the same as I recall from 'The Picts and the Martyrs'. It is actually quite a tall building, with the remains of the joists of a first floor still visible, half way up the walls, so it must have had 2 levels at one time. As I recall from TPATM, the roof was much lower and the beams that the hammocks were hung from were quite large, more like the 12-inch or bigger constructional timbers of a barn, rather than the small 3 by 2-inch floor joists that are there now. I did find another smaller building further up the hillside, that is very derelict now, but more like the external size as it appears in the illustrations. You can see both on OpenStreetMap: Map showing The Dogs' Home

• The Dogs' Home photos

When I. holidayed in summer in Liverpool, I used to play with the local lads. They used to go to local schools and started back about 2 weeks earlier than I did in my southern preparatory school for the Michaelmas or autumn/winter term.
As a lark, it was agreed that they would smuggle me into their school on the first day of term. As in those days, one went to holiday and played in school clothes (to maximise the wear before you outgrew them), as my friends school uniform policy seemed to be if you were reasonably dressed and had a school tie you could get by.
Anyway I managed to survive until lunch time when I made the mistake of calling it lunch instead of dinner and I expect my accent was not as good as I had hoped, I was picked out by one of the masters and had to leg it through the school gate.
Anyway in the morning break, they did sing shanties and also did so in groups in the streets � especially the ruder versions.

As regards the RN singing shanties, a Liverpool uncle who was a MN officer said that in wartime when he was RNR, they did have shanty competitions with the RN regulars in Liverpool to determine who would pay for the evening�s drinks. I expect this would have been the same in WW1.

posted via 80.189.81.127 user OwenRoberts.

I'm not sure that 'exotic' is the word I'd use, but certainly 'beautiful' fits the bill.

I remember going to exotic Cedar Rapids once, and then on to Des Moines. A real impression was of passing huge open trucks on the freeway, carrying hogs. Wow. the smell started a mile back, and kept on the whole way... Amazingly, when I tried to get some spare ribs for dinner at Des Moines, in the middle of hog country, they were pretty so-so. I remember that they were delicious in Atlanta. Not so many hogs round there.

What's the train ride like? I never had the time to take the train in the USA, except from New York to Washington DC. That was okay except that they'd changed the window glass for perspex, so it was cloudy with scratches.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

It would really be great to get to England and see the Lake District, Bekonscot and all those exotic places - but just bought train (yes, train, as in Amtrak) ticket to San Francisco to visit my daughter and grandson.

Eric Abraham - North Central Kansas, the "Land of Ahs"! (A much better slogan than they have now)
posted via 199.87.200.84 user EricAbraham.

And for anybody with an internet connection, Googling Bekonscot beings up a wealth of material, including lots of pictures and a lovely movie of a trip round the model railway. At track level it's so realistic that the occasional view of giant humans above is quite startling.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

Whist it is correct that shanties were not sung in school until comparatively recently, they were sung in the playground of any school in a merchant port, such as Liverpool and Southampton

Thanks Owen. Could you point me in the direction of any historical references? As you know I'm doing some research for an article.
posted via 81.219.113.196 user Jock.

Thank you Alan, this is just what I was looking for.
posted via 81.219.113.196 user Jock.

The Royal Navy has always many Merchant Navy crew, from the time of the press gangs, to unsuspecting volunteers later. Certainly in WW1, Commander Walker would have mixed with many people in the reserve which comprised professional Merchant Navy Officers and Seamen. He would have ample chance to learn shanties.

Whist it is correct that shanties were not sung in school until comparatively recently, they were sung in the playground of any school in a merchant port, such as Liverpool and Southampton.

posted via 80.189.81.127 user OwenRoberts.

Robin is, of course, right that the education of the Swallows and the use
of shanties on board sailing vessels overlapped. Though by the late 1920s,
large square riggers � and the sailors who crewed them � were quite rare.
The problem is: where and how did the Swallows actually learn them?

However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that they were known by
families, especially families with seafaring connections. So, I
guess my suggested answer is that Commander Walker learnt them either at
sea or from his own parents, rather than at school! [my emphasis added]

Duncan, a brilliant solution to the puzzle!

Shanties started 'coming on shore' with the demise of sail in the mid-19th
century. They would have been sung by retired sailors in pubs and some of
the more enterprising salts even sang them in music halls, so no prizes for
guessing where Captain Flint learnt his shanties.

In the 18th century they were the work songs of Merchant Navy, but
deprecated in the Royal Navy. So Walker elder would not have learnt them
while at naval college. The first authoratitive collections were published
in the early 19th century by Cecil Sharp, Captain W B Whall and Richard
Runciman. Shanties may not have been available as drawing room sheet
music (just imagine the GA's reaction to some of the lyrics!) at the time
the Swallows were growing up.

Positing a merchant navy background � and a keen love of shanties � for
the Swallows paternal grandfather neatly provides a solution.

Of course, in the real world, Ransome, Masefield and others did a great
deal to popularise the singing of sea shanties. I expect quite a few of my
primary school teachers would have read Swallows and Amazons
during their own school days!

Anyone with any evidence one way or another, please add to this thread.

posted via 81.219.113.196 user Jock.

There is a great article with color pictures about this village in the May 1937 National Geographic Magazine for you who are lucky enough to have a library with National Geographic Magazines going back that far (I have a complete set back to 1910 +). There is also the "Complete National Geographic on CD-ROM" which came out in 1998 which your library may (or may not) have.

PS - This issue of Signals, I found to be very interesting - read it from cover to cover.

Eric Abraham - Lucas, Kansas (Dead center, USA)

posted via 199.87.200.84 user EricAbraham.

Sea shanties, especially some of those that Ransome included like Drunken Sailor and Hanging Johnny, were considered rather too bawdy for early 20th century schoolrooms. However, I think it's reasonable to suggest that they were known by families, especially families with seafaring connections. So, I guess my suggested answer is that Commander Walker learnt them either at sea or from his own parents, rather than at school!

The Amazons must have known them from Captain Flint, who must have had some connections with John Masefield in his younger days!! It is rather fortunate that they known the same songs of course...
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.

However an initial on-line search would seem to indicate that today's
well-known shanties only started being included in school song books post
WWII. So where did the Swallows learn there sea shanties? TarBoarders
thinking of replying to this question by saying that they were taught by
their father should also posit a credible explanation where Commander
Walker learnt his sea shanties!

• School songbook indices on Mudcat Caf�

There were a number of scenes drawn by Spurrier & Ransome, or by Webb and Ransome, but I believe that there is only one that all three drew - The Lighthouse Tree, from Swallows and Amazons.
posted via 194.164.38.65 user Geraint_Lewis.

I have the impression that this might have been one of the things that the Brantwood exhibition achieved, and I am disappointed I missed it. Especially as, if it had lasted until 3 October, I would have had a chance.
posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

One complication might be getting copyright permission to publish, as trails get old and cold, publishing houses vanish, but not work is not yet in public domain (or you don't know if it is or not). I'm not speaking of Ransome's work, as the Literary Executors are available, but other earlier illustrators.

posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

Later I came on a drawing and description of some square splatchers, or pattens, and I present it here for anyone who might wish to try making some.

If you do, please let us know how you got on!

"SPLATCHERS -- SQUARE
(See graphic)

Anyone who has lugged gun, cartridges, a sackful of decoys and the makings of a hide more than a few hundred yards across mud little more than even ankle depth will appreciate the true meaning of having to work for their birds. The obvious solution to this problem, then, is to use mud pattens. Stout wooden boards tied to the fowler's feet, their purpose is to spread his weight over a greater surface area, thereby preventing him from sinking. Simple enough in theory, but what of the practicalities? Most of the great wildfowling authors have touched upon their design and use. Colonel Hawker's mud boards work well enough but the large oval boards fastened to the foot with leather straps as recommended by Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey are positively dangerous. Indeed, the more you research the subject, the more it becomes apparent that, while widely understood in principle, few have grasped the simple essentials of safe mud walking.

The harbours of Portsmouth. Langstone and Chichester contain a particularly viscous brand of sediment. Many years ago those with business about the harbours - cocklers, bait-diggers, flight shooters and puntgunners - perfected the design of their mud pattens. The boards themselves are nothing revolutionary: 12in square with rounded corners. Traditionally, they are made of elm, although marine or even exterior-grade, plywood will give years of service. Hardwood strips fastened to the bottom, traditionally with copper rivets, although brass screws and waterproof wood glue will suffice, provide the necessary grip to prevent sliding.

The secret lies not so much in the board's dimensions, but in the positioning of the foot and the precise method of fastening. Two rope loops secured under the board with a figure-of-eight or stopper-knot provide the anchor points for the rope ties. Place the foot between, and parallel to, the fixed loops, with the toe level with the leading edge. Once fastened, it is possible to walk normally. There is no need to adopt the tiring and unnatural gait necessary as when the foot is placed in the middle of the board.

Boards that overlap the toe require an awkward flatfooted gait. With each step it is necessary to overcome the suction of the mud. A normal walking gait has the effect of pushing the overlap further into the mud. All this places an additional strain upon both the loops and the fastening ties. With the foot correctly positioned, it is possible to walk normally. In this way there is less suction to overcome, therefore less strain on the fastenings.

It is possible to kneel comfortably, an important consideration for the shoulder gunner; it is even possible to climb steep creek banks without fear of wrenching the patten from your foot.

Cheap polypropylene rope is quite adequate for both board loops and ties. Avoid expensive nylon or terylene rope - it has different design characteristics and is inclined to slip when knotted. It is worth hunting out some old-fashioned hemp rope, particularly for the ties. It binds well to itself and gives a secure knot. Should you decide to use natural cordage it must be inspected regularly and replaced immediately any wear becomes apparent. Like the puntgunner's breaching rope, your life may depend upon it not parting at an inopportune moment!

When securing the loops to your boards, it is imperative that you use a figure-of-eight knot. Instruction on how to tie it is available in any good book about basic seamanship. Don't be tempted to use a simple overhand knot. It will slip with disastrous consequences.

Having secured the pattens firmly to your feet, the following provide a few tips on their use:

Firstly, remember that you have them on! A slight adjustment of your gait may be required to avoid stepping one on the other. A few minutes practice on the lawn may prevent a potentially disastrous tumble on the mud.

When walking, you may experience a slight build-up of mud on the leading edge of the patten. A quick flick of the foot will remove it.

Always carry a couple of spare ties. to be used in the event of a sudden breakage, and your having to cut a rope.

Lastly, remember that patterns should be looked upon as an aid to easing your passage across the mud. They are not magic! Do not use them to attempt to cross mud so slack that the patten itself sinks into it."

It seems that the Mastodon's awkward running motion might not have been necessary after all....

[ Image ]

posted via 203.129.50.229 user mikefield.

I would find (and I would presume others would also) such a comparison quite interesting. Mr. Ransome's illustrations are, to me, the best representations of the stories.

At that time I made various maps (about 18 inches square) of imaginary sites with ink on tracing paper (I still have them), some with my imaginary adventures of the Swallows and Amazons and others of my own invention. My father would print them out for me on the Ozalid Machine at his office (he was a map draftsman at that time for an oil company).

posted via 199.87.200.84 user EricAbraham.

TarBoard gives me what I want - a gathering of like-minded people who are interested in all aspects of the work of an author, sometimes they disagree and see the works in a different way and sometimes they agree.

Without wanting to discuss TARS matters, why do some members not like TarBoard?
posted via 2.28.66.224 user MTD.

As a former TARS member, I am one of those international TarBoard readers/contributors who found my TARS membership seemed to be doing not a lot more than subsidising UK regional chapter meetings. Although I'm sure this was not really the case, nevertheless the copies of 'Signals' that I received every so often did not seem to me to be worth the comparatively high membership fees. So after about three years I resigned.

I contributed to the TARS Forum in its early days (when non-mebers were encouraged to contribute despite their non-membership, I imagine in order to get the ball rolling,) but although I can still read threads there I can no longer contribute. So I don't visit that site any more.

On the other hand, I visit TarBoard every day because I know if something is mentioned there that I believe I can usefully add to, then I can in fact do so. (I might say that I would continue to visit the TARS Forum if I could still post there, too.)

To me it seems quite appropriate that TARS should run its own Forum for its own members, and that both its and TarBoard's respective policies about cross-posting are quite appropriate.

posted via 203.129.50.229 user mikefield.

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014543l

I remember using an alidade just like the left hand one in your link at university. We were supposed to circumnavigate a castle and plot the outer wall, dried-up moat, etc. It proved much easier said than done, but this may have been because there were thirty other teams all trying to do likewise at the same time, and thus an awful lot of tangled measuring chains. At least the Swallows, etc, didn't have that problem in Secret Water...

I can't really comment objectively on how good the exhibition and talks were. But the feedback we've had from Brantwood suggests the exhibition was popular, and reactions to it from their visitors were very positive. It was great to see a number of friendly TARS faces at the talks too, as well as interest from the general public, both from the Brantwood and Lakeland Arts Trust Friends' organisations, and other locals and visitors.

• ART website reviews of the exhibition and talks

We would like to encourage everyone to move this discussion onto a new thread on The Arthur Ransome Society (TARS) official forum at: http://arthur-ransome.org/forum/tars-general-discussion/997748487

The reasoning behind this is as follows:

1) TarBoard is completely independent from The Arthur Ransome Society (TARS) - so discussion about the internal politics of TARS is outside of the aims of TarBoard.

2) Becasue of this, using TarBoard to discuss internal TARS disputes/politics is discouraged. See this extract from the current TarBoard FAQ page:

Q. Can we discuss TARS matters on TarBoard?
A. TARS has its own forum to discuss TARS matters. If you want to discuss TARS matters in detail, then that is the appropriate place to do it. TarBoard is open to everyone, so internal discussions by TARS members of TARS matters may be boring or inappropriate. However, you are very welcome to advertise an open TARS function or meeting or put a note on TarBoard suggesting that people look at the TARS forum to discuss an issue.

3) This policy is not in place because of some "conspiracy" between TARS leadership and the TarBoard team to stop debate about grievances TARS members may have with TARS. The policy has been in place since 1998 because such TARS political discussions on TarBoard have nearly always resulted in an overload of demoralising work for the people running TarBoard at the time. In the past, both 'sides' in such arguments have criticised TarBoard both on the board and privately - TARS leadership feeling that TarBoard was encouraging others to undermine their position (this is probably the reason there is no official mention of TarBoard in any TARS publications or on its website), while the other 'side' have felt that TarBoard was a mouthpiece for TARS management.

The point is that the TarBoard team have no desire to be referees for internal TARS political disputes on TarBoard, which is why the policy was created all those years ago and still exists.

Thanks,

Woll Newall, on behalf of the TarBoard team

• Thread on the official TARS' forum

"It is hurtful to see TarBoard described as an 'unfriendly board' when the reality is so very different."

Ah, but what is 'reality'? I'm afraid I have to agree with Robin about 'unfriendliness'. I felt obliged to cease posting on Tarboard three years ago because I felt I was in 'alien territory'. That was my 'reality'. I am not complaining - Tarboarders have a perfect right to establish whatever 'tone' or 'reality' they wish on this forum, but they mustn't get too upset when others do not feel at home with it.
posted via 86.184.248.167 user Peter_H.

There are many threads on Tarboard which do not interest me. They do not cause me to be alienated. And how can I be bored by a thread that I don't follow?
posted via 99.242.24.77 user dreadnaught.

I only managed to get to the last talk, about the maps for the Swallows and Amazons series, which was very interesting. I especially liked Geraint's more technical talk about the (im)practicalities of the mapping described in 'Secret Water'.

It reminded me of when I must have been about 10 years old and my older brother made an alidade and we mapped our garden (which I can only think must have been prompted by him reading 'Secret Water').

This document has some interesting details about surveying with an alidade:
http://www.scotlandsruralpast.org.uk/pdfs/SRP_Fieldmanual_small.pdf

• Alidades

around April/March 1998 prompted by the "An Arrow into the Campfire" discussion

ho hum
posted via 194.80.32.8 user IanEN.

By all means block me.
posted via 212.225.122.25 user lexdens.

Two things have always been banned on TarBoard: ad hominem attacks on individuals and TARS
politics, not I hasten to say any mention of TARS initiatives or events. The reason for the first is
obvious, the reason for the second is precisely because the TarBoard's management has always
wished to maintain a good relationship with TARS.

Regardless of whether or TARS is undergoing its own 'colour revolution', or not, I am sure that we
will continue to wish it will, but would rather wish � if such things are happening � that they will
not happen on TarBoard.

I am writing this in a purely personal capacity � as someone who has been posting to TarBoard for
more years than he cares to remember, cares passionately about its future and took part of the Tar-
Board 'rescue', and not in any official capacity.
posted via 213.195.183.240 user Jock.

1. TARS events, publications etc. are perfectly acceptable for discussion, especially where they are of general interest to both TARS members and non-members.

2. TARS internal politics and disputes are not suitable for discussion here.

As we are not affiliated with TARS in any way, it strikes me as rather rude that we would interfere in the internal affairs of another organization, especially when that organization has a forum of its own in which people can make their opinions known.

I would have hoped we are not seen as unfriendly, it is of course all the posters who make a discussion board friendly or not and I have always tried to do my bit to keep things amicable here.
posted via 99.226.104.45 user Adam.

Posting on the TARS website DOES have an effect. As an example with regard to the charitable status proposals, postings on the TARS forum principally by Rob Boden and myself caused the withdrawal of the resolutions.

Whilst I think most of Rob's suggestions are sensible, this is not the place to discuss their merit. Perhaps all of us who are concerned by this can adjourn to the TARS website, please.

Apologies to the many non TARS who must be bemused and bored by this.

posted via 80.189.191.251 user OwenRoberts.

This is intended as a friendly warning that you are standing into danger with this topic. There may not be any further warnings.
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

I dont think we've met and I perfectly understand what you say.

However, I am worried that TARS is in its death throes and I frankly dont care if this is the correct medium or not. What I want to see is some activity to move an organisation I consider very worthwhile forward. To that end I will publish my concerns anyway I can.

If this upsets you, sorry
posted via 212.225.112.127 user lexdens.

Robin
posted via 97.97.76.138 user TARSUS.

I think you are correct, this is probably the wrong place to say this. The majority of Tarboard readers are not TARS members and don't see or even know what Signals is and we don't want to alienate or bore them by discussing internal TARS affairs.

TARS has a perfectrly good, if under-utilised, web forum where it would be highly appropriate place to raise this sort of issue.

If that discussion on the TARS forum raised some ideas which you wanted to bounce off interested non-members to see if that would attract them to become interested and involved with TARS, then that would be appropriate for Tarboard.

• TARS Discussion Forum

Max Malloran is excavating a mound or tell at Chagar Bazar; this must be about 1936 as she mentions King Edward the Eighth and Mrs Simpson (page 119). Agatha Christie started �Come, tell me how you live� about life on an archaeological dig in the 1930s though it was not published till 1946, and reprinted in 1983 (pub. The Bodley Head). The expedition was asked to provide the locals with medical care and she writes later (page 175) about how Guilford (an architect) doctored with iodine, Susan�s universal remedy. A sheik�s son puts a hole in his head from a car overturning and Guildford fills it with iodine. After staggering about, reeling with pain he gasps � � fire indeed, It is wonderful .. fire, fire indeed�. After four days the wound is healing rapidly, and the sheik�s son is disappointed that no more iodine is applied!.

Agatha Christie also wrote that she tried to make herself like cigarettes by smoking two a day for six months but does not succeed; likewise with alcohol, so Max has the battle of obtaining water for her in restaraunts (page 46).

posted via 202.154.144.97 user hugo.

As a former Chairman, Treasurer and current Vice President, may I say how much I agree with Rob's comments in Signals?

TARS currently appears to do nothing, be unaware of its mission and is boring (to me anyway)

We need initiatives, we need to develop. Theres some great ideas (and a few stinkers) in what Rob suggests

Where is the initiative?

posted via 62.56.98.230 user lexdens.

The missing "T" is laziness, in my opinion. Very few people here sound their consonants with care.
posted via 24.22.118.90 user Elizabeth.

The Brantwood events were organised by the Brantwood Trust in partnership with the Arthur Ransome Trust (ART). Further details and reviews can be found on the ART website at www.arthur-ransome-trust.org.uk. � go to �Camp Fires�, which is the code for these events.

posted via 86.183.19.67 user Peter_H.

But what if the dictionary defines that as a "Gibber"?

Ah, English - what a wealth of combinations of multiple cultures.
posted via 205.188.116.68 user Kisered.

Which helps to explain my ignorance; my main encounters with US broadcasting were on trips where I would watch the TV news in the evening. Otherwise, I had a PA who. like me, loved jazz, so as we arrived and left the airport in the hire car, her first job was to find the local jazz station. We wouldn't need to touch the tuning again. Sometimes there were wonderful serendipitous moments; one year we were heading out to Fort Irwin in the California desert. We noticed that on the way out to I15, we could divert to a route through the L.A suburbs that for several miles followed the old route 66, so obviously we took that. On the way there, still in the LA suburbs, the radio played 'Route 66'. 'Get your kicks on route six-six'. Ah! The power of cheap music...

For some time we drove alongside a very pretty candy red Porsche 356. It looked so delicious and was driven by a chap, obviously obsessed with Look, dressed in an impeccable dark suit. It was a baking hot day; we had air conditioning in our Detroit iron. He didn't. It must have been hell in there. Interesting how it's the incidentals that stick in the memory.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

So I'll have to live vicariously through Tarboard!!! How was it?!
posted via 90.201.186.181 user Duncan.

David
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.

Of course you're right; I wasn't trying to say that broadcasting was the whole story. But I do think that it had a huge role in flattening the British local dialects. Famously, the railways unified time across the country, and the Beeb killed the local accents. Not entirely; I can still have an interesting time interpreting people in canny Newcassle, let alone Glasgow where as far as I am concerned it'd be nice to have subtitles. But I was helped by having a friend who was an engine driver in Dundee, so I could play myself in before I went North.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

The reason for the 'flattening' of accents in Britain is that it is a small island, with a broadcaster (the BBC, for many years) that covered the whole country, and had its own pronunciation rules. Broadcasts were on medium wave and were received nationwide. Everybody heard the same accent on the radio. In the USA, where distances are so much greater, you could have a local radio station which could preserve a local way of speech.

What with cable and the internet, which abolish distance, all that will change in time. And in Britain the BBC, for instance. is slowly re-embracing local dialects.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

These are mostly remote dialects which were little touched by others until rather recently, and especially show up in "real" country music (mostly today preserved in what's called "bluegrass"). Folk songs are little changed from the versions sung in England at the time of the American settlements, and much of the speech seems to be also -- to the extent that stage professionals (and the folks who established the Renaissance Faires in the U.S.) and many academic professionals have studied the dialects as probably the most accurate preservation of Elizabethan and post-Elizabethan English (of particular interest to Shakespearean folk).

An interesting tangent to this is that since American English was established before the Napoleonic Wars, we (Americans) preserved many common French terms subsequently abandoned by the English during the wars in favor of more English terms. ("Exit" --> "Way Out", "Bordeaux" --> "Claret", "Hors d'oeuvre"--> "Starter" (we gave up and got "Appetizer" later as nobody this side of the Atlantic and south of the Quebec border could spell the original term anyhow)).

There are a lot of other examples, and they generally serve to demonstrate a forking of the British and American versions of English which began to occur quite naturally after 1781, but were given a strong boost around 1800 or so.
posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

David

posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.

My mother came from Liverpool and I used to spend some holidays there in the 1940/50�s. Woe betides me if I started to speak with a Scouse accent. It was made plain to me that anyone who wanted to get on in life should avoid the local phraseology and style of speech.

posted via 80.189.133.241 user OwenRoberts.

In Wolfe's audio readings, he calls her "MA RYE AH".

- - - - -

As for American English, there are two locations in North Carolina where some claim that the dialect spoken there is original Colonial mode of sounds. These two areas are the Outer Banks and the marsh lands bordering on the shallow waters separated from the ocean by the Outer Banks, a chain of off-shore islands, recently blasted by a recent hurricane. The other area is deep into the Appalachian Mountains in the western end of North Carolina. Both are at the extreme ends of this state. The reason they claim this is colonial dialect is that these two areas are so inaccessable that there is not a lot of flow of people of other accents in and out of those two isolated regions. So the inhabitants of those protected regions have not become poluted with other dialects. Now of course, with TV and Radio, and roads constructed into these areas, and with the heavy flow of tourists, the locals have become exposed to many other dialects and have drifted away from that original tongue. We have a name for that old dialect that perhaps is not all that respectful, calling it "hick" or "hillbilly" as a Put-Down description that implied ignorant and uneducated. As derogatory as these labels seem to be, to claim that this is original colonial English, as spoken by those originals who landed here from ships from England, that would seem to imply that the mode of speech used by Queen Elizabeth the First of those early colonial days would be to say she talks like a "hick." Somehow, that is a bit too much unkind. Who knows how that Queen spoke. We don't have recordings of her voice.

Example: "I am tired." This is pronounced as "Ah'm tarred."

"Fire" is pronounced as "Far".

Those four round rubber things on which a car rolls that we (USA) call "tires", in that back-woods speech would be "Tars."

"Can't" comes out like "Cain't" to rhyme with "ain't".

If this is Colonial English, then English English has certainly shifted quite a bit away from that way of speaking.

We here in USA feel that when we hear English English, that the speaker is very well educated, and is "putting on the dog" to emphasize that accomplishment, and is "showing off" a bit, as if to brag "I'm better than you." This can lead to a certain amount of resentment that can lead to all sorts of misunderstandings. English English is used sometimes in TV commercials to add an air of respectability, of validity in the claims of that commercial. Hear how educated he sounds, so he must be right. Which is what a good commercial should imply.

So both sides of The Pond "talk funny." At least, that is the opinion of the OTHER side of that Pond.

But this means that the written word of Ransome can be read without any strange foreign accent, and becomes a delightful story, with perhaps a few new words to learn, but without any accent to alienate the reader. This is a hazard of "talking books" as they are read using an accent that is not familiar necessarily to the listener, and so is received not all that well. To my ears, that dialect is not familiar, and is sometimes irritatingly difficult to comprehend. But as for the BOOKS that I can READ, we can love each of these twelve offerings Ransome left for us on both sides of that Pond to relish and enjoy.

So when I read these aloud to those young ones in the family, they hear the words in my own Southern American dialect that they are familiar with, although there are times that "Girt auld hen 'at wants to be cock o' t' midden" can leave them a bit puzzled, as somehow I'm afraid my interpretation of those words just don't come out with the right sounds.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky
posted via 64.12.116.133 user Kisered.

As for trans-Atlantic differences then read Bill Byrson's Mother Tongue, it discusses and explains everything! In the main it is the English English speakers who have changed (even though most of them moan about Americanisms invading our language!), American English is still pretty much the English the Pilgrim Fathers and others took with them. Bryson explains this better than that!
posted via 2.25.183.189 user MTD.

David
posted via 125.209.155.91 user David.

Interesting to see that a previous team to make the attempt, in 1905, included the notorious occultist Aleister Crowley.

• George Band obituary

The GA is named Maria. Is that "i" pronounced like "rye" or like the vowel sound of "whee"?

How do we pronounce these words in KENTUCKY? Doesn't matter... We don't do it the UK way that's for sure.

When watching the Harry Potter movies, I cannot go to the movie theater to view them as they don't have English subtitles, so I wait for the DVD version so I can get the subtitles to explain what they are saying. So much gets lost in the translation sometimes, at least in the version my ears report as compared to the written subtitles. This is especially helpful and needed with something like Harry Potter because of the vocabulary has a lot of made up buzz-words that aren't in the dictionary anyway.

What is amazing about all this is, we think here (Kentucky) that we are speaking English, and, so do the folks in the UK (that's United Kingdom, not University of Kentucky, which is what UK means around here.) But it is hardly the same thing.

Reading is one thing; listening to the spoken word is so much a different thing. The "local area flavor" keeps the sound changing from area to area.

Too bad both sides of The Pond don't speak the same English. Would be nice.

"Not this yin." (Jacky in PM) Wonder if that sound is understood when heard by someone from East Side London. And both of them are on the same side of The Pond.

But maybe these subtile differences even in the written word is what makes it interesting to read Ransome. Where else would I have met words like "fells", "beck", "tarn", "Duffers", "Despatches", "nobbut" and that list keeps growing, but I'll stop there...

Ed Kiser, Kaintuck (that is the way "Kentucky" sounds here...)
posted via 64.12.116.133 user Kisered.

Thanks for the reminder. I've just listened to it on the iPlayer, and I think it's smashing. Wonderfully atmospheric. As they went there, I looked at Low Ludderburn on Google Street view- a perfect complement to the story. So good to hear people who are in splendid harmony in their love of AR's books.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

Holly Howe rhymes with 'cow'- or maybe with 'now'. London pronunciation, not Cumbrian. And I always thought 'Gibber' had a soft 'G'.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

• TARS Forum: AR on RLS

The jibbering Gibber we've discussed here before. And I'm still not sure what the consensus was!

Andy
posted via 90.244.217.137 user AndyG.

"Holly Howe" - rhymes with "slow" or "cow"?
"Gibber" - hard 'G' ("Golf") or soft ("Geoffrey")

Any ideas?
posted via 109.155.115.218 user BerkScouse.

I didn't buy the issue, just glanced at it, so I can't speak to its worth, but I thought y'all might be interested.

Alex
posted via 12.72.242.28 user Pitsligo.

Swallow is in urgent need of a skipper for this Saturday and/or Sunday (27-28 August 2011). If you can sail any sort of boat, and live within a sensible drive of Swindon, please please get in touch with me - 01252 337554.

You don't need a towbar, and there is petrol money (or possibly accomodation) available.

Thanks. Again, sorry to clutter up Tarboard with this last minute appeal.

• http://www.sailransome.org

So true.
posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

• Daily Telegraph

Rob
posted via 85.211.199.164 user humyar.

Dick avoided wandering aimlessly in the snowstorm by using a length
of line as a guide, and spool of string when "buried alive in the
maze of the caves.

I used that concept in using SCUBA gear for searching under water
in absolute darkness, feeling about for the desired object, but
guided by a line clipped to the anchor line to guide me in a
circular search pattern.

In WH, the D's started learning the Morse code, and eventually used
it to tell the others where they had taken refuge from the storm.
And in PP, those sleeping in The Gulch could signal to those back
at their campsite.

I learned Morse, and obtained leadership status among my fellow Boy
Scouts as I taught it to them. We used this skill in communications
when camped out with others camped on the next hill, and with each
other at school with a fellow Scout on the far side of the lunchroom.

When camping out in tents with that Scout troop, I was the one that
seemed to have the best results with starting a campfire, because
I had "watched" Susan start many a campfire, so knew how.

While there have been those critics who complained of the technical
jargon involved in operating a sailboat, I learned from those
descriptions, so when the time came that I bought my 4 meter catamarin
I was able to launch it, rig the mast, sails, rudders (two of them)
manage the daggerboards (two of those also) and sail in a variety of
positions of mainsail and jib according to desired course and wind
directions, knowing to shift crew weight to the windward side, and
feel the thrill of rushing into the wind close hauled, with one hull
flying high above the water - but never once capsized, thanks to timly
adjustments to the mainsheet - with no further readings on "how to"
other than the works of Ransome alone to teach me.

Never deliberately set out to cook a pile of charcoal, but did
enjoy taking a bit of charred stick from the fire and using it to
mark some wierd designs on my face during the Boy Scout camp
session, which of course the others had to do likewise, much to
our mutual mirth.

I am sure there are other bits I picked up from his works, but
let me simply say, "Mr. Ransome, you done good. Thanks."

Ed Kiser, Kentucky

posted via 64.12.116.133 user Kisered.

• Desert Island Discs - Ellen MacArthur

• Telegraph texts

TARS and TARSUS members please note Alans comment.
posted via 97.97.76.138 user TARSUS.

Next question is: Where can I find the "Log of the Slug" which was read out by the actor playing Ransome? Has it been published anywhere? I will root through my books when I have time, but thought I would ask now!

I liked the part of the programmer where 4 kids were interviewed sailing in 'Peggy Blackett'. It amused me that Tatty played the part of Titty. Both names were from the same book! A sad tale though....

• http://www.authorama.com/english-fairy-tales-18.html

• http://www.boydellandbrewer.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=13719

David

posted via 207.178.235.114 user DavidMaxwell.

• Camden press RLS by AR

David
posted via 207.178.235.114 user DavidMaxwell.

As I suspected my own interview was edited down to a tiny bit, but you did get the pleasure of hearing me raving about how I felt upon finishing S&A as a child! Such a shame they didn't mention that the film 'Swallow' is available for anyone to have a go in.

You can listen again via iPlayer. I'm going to make an MP3 recording from that, and listen again myself. There are some questions to be researched. First one that comes to mind is what colour was Peter Duck painted when first built? The current owner doubts it was green...

• http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012wzfl

Thank you, Ed!

posted via 199.87.207.53 user EricAbraham.

PM CH2
Dot and Dick were on the train when Dot said:
"...Dick! There's the lake! We're nearly there."

In SD, there was that sad feeling that because of the
accident with SWALLOW, they would be turning their
backs to the lake and having to make do somewhere on
the mainland.

SD CH36 (the last lines in the book, having returned to
WCI) "Pouf!" said Susan, raking the sticks together in
the fireplace. "Isn't it a blessing to get home?"

There was that excitement of BEING THERE, at the lake,
and even more so, at Wild Cat Island.

In SA, it was all so new, that the nostalgia was not
there at the start, but as it went on, they felt they
would have to be coming back to WCI every year.

In WH, where the point of view was essentially as the
D's saw it, the lake and its island were all new to
them, but they sensed the attraction that Spitzbergen
(WCI) had for the others, as they picked up the pace
and were more urgent about hurrying to get there, as if
drawn by the magnet of those previous adventures that
the D's did not really know about.

The affection these characters felt about the place at
the "Lake" were well established, but really never felt
in the same degree about Secret Water or Pin Mill.

So it was very fullfilling for me to suddenly
experience a "Ransome Moment" that reflected this
thrill of "being there at the lake." It all happened on
Lake Windermere at the Low Wood Hotel. There is a
marina just down across the lawn from that hotel with
its assortment of small craft, yachts, sailing boats,
Next to that marina was a set of jetties to help with
loading and unloading passengers to/from the small
craft. There were a few kayak single occupant light
craft powered by the double ended paddles flashing like
windmills as the glided across the light ripples of the
lake. Then as I watched, down from the Watersports
Centre came two young girls, one about 12, the other
around 10, to step into the very edge of the lake there
beside the landing hard, with their bare feet actually
in the water. The older one then bent over and dipped
one hand into the lake, swished it about a bit, then
came up with it and showed her wet hand to the smaller
girl who then also bent over and dipped her hand into
the Lake, as if it was some ceremony marking the
realization that "We are really here, at the Lake."
They then turned and ran back up towards the hotel.

No, they were not wearing red knitted caps, but I
dearly wished they had been.

It was a very special moment for them, but an even more
special moment for me.

Where was I? Sad to say, I was not physically there,
but I was watching from my home in Kentucky, viewing
all this from the "Lake District WebCam" at:

http://www.elh.co.uk/watersports/web_cam.aspx

Those two girls gave me a reminder of the magic in that
place, and in the place that Ransome created from words
for us all, a place that is so real and dear to our
hearts, with youthful people full of the zest of it all
to share with each of us as we again dive into those
marvelous tales of now, so long ago.

It was indeed a "blessing to get home."

Ed Kiser, Kentucky

posted via 64.12.116.133 user Kisered.

David
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.

David Maxwell, California
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.

PM CH2
Dot and Dick were on the train when Dot said:
"...Dick! There's the lake! We're nearly there."

In SD, there was that sad feeling that because of the
accident with SWALLOW, they would be turning their
backs to the lake and having to make do somewhere on
the mainland.

SD CH36 (the last lines in the book, having returned to
WCI) "Pouf!" said Susan, raking the sticks together in
the fireplace. "Isn't it a blessing to get home?"

There was that excitement of BEING THERE, at the lake,
and even more so, at Wild Cat Island.

In SA, it was all so new, that the nostalgia was not
there at the start, but as it went on, they felt they
would have to be coming back to WCI every year.

In WH, where the point of view was essentially as the
D's saw it, the lake and its island were all new to
them, but they sensed the attraction that Spitzbergen
(WCI) had for the others, as they picked up the pace
and were more urgent about hurrying to get there, as if
drawn by the magnet of those previous adventures that
the D's did not really know about.

The affection these characters felt about the place at
the "Lake" were well established, but really never felt
in the same degree about Secret Water or Pin Mill.

So it was very fullfilling for me to suddenly
experience a "Ransome Moment" that reflected this
thrill of "being there at the lake." It all happened on
Lake Windermere at the Low Wood Hotel. There is a
marina just down across the lawn from that hotel with
its assortment of small craft, yachts, sailing boats,
Next to that marina was a set of jetties to help with
loading and unloading passengers to/from the small
craft. There were a few kayak single occupant light
craft powered by the double ended paddles flashing like
windmills as the glided across the light ripples of the
lake. Then as I watched, down from the Watersports
Centre came two young girls, one about 12, the other
around 10, to step into the very edge of the lake there
beside the landing hard, with their bare feet actually
in the water. The older one then bent over and dipped
one hand into the lake, swished it about a bit, then
came up with it and showed her wet hand to the smaller
girl who then also bent over and dipped her hand into
the Lake, as if it was some ceremony marking the
realization that "We are really here, at the Lake."
They then turned and ran back up towards the hotel.

No, they were not wearing red knitted caps, but I
dearly wished they had been.

It was a very special moment for them, but an even more
special moment for me.

Where was I? Sad to say, I was not physically there,
but I was watching from my home in Kentucky, viewing
all this from the "Lake District WebCam" at:

http://www.elh.co.uk/watersports/web_cam.aspx

Those two girls gave me a reminder of the magic in that
place, and in the place that Ransome created from words
for us all, a place that is so real and dear to our
hearts, with youthful people full of the zest of it all
to share with each of us as we again dive into those
marvelous tales of now, so long ago.

It was indeed a "blessing to get home."

Ed Kiser, Kentucky

posted via 64.12.116.133 user Kisered.

http://www.economist.com/node/18988946
posted via 75.111.59.123 user dthewlis.

• S&A Musical in London

The only thing you miss out on is the publisher's marketing work on your behalf. Which comes at a percentage cost...

I would have thought the name Roger Wardale was enough to sell any book - you hardly need to give it a hard sell; just let people know it's there!
posted via 95.149.115.169 user Magnus.

Larks Press might be worth a try?

www.booksatlarkspress.co.uk.

Geraint
posted via 194.164.38.65 user Geraint_Lewis.

http://www.rbooks.co.uk/search_results.aspx?aid=3740

The slightly strange thing is that some are �8.34 while others (Missee Lee, Secret Water, Peter Duck, Great Northern?) are �9.38

So has anyone tried them out yet? How are they?
posted via 98.26.127.41 user allym.

P.S. And any Tarboarder tempted to ask questions about the background to "the Twelve Books" should read Roger's book before speculating here.
posted via 80.239.242.159 user awhakim.

• TARS Forum

However, I agree that it does seem to be odd that an immaterial right to read a text with no ability to lend or resell it should cost more than the physical book which becomes your property to do with as you wish.
posted via 99.226.104.45 user Adam.

BUT

ebook: �8.34
paperback: �7.19

Are we seriously supposed to believe it costs MORE to 'manufacture' an ebook?
posted via 98.26.127.41 user allym.

WH, JC 1948, p.248 "Nobody ever was angry with Dorothea".

I can see that AR felt the same....
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

Everyone, but everyone, should have a Dot in their life.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

I am not sure how many of you look at the Lakeland Cam website, but there is an absolute cracking picture of Peel Island on today and some very nice shots for the last week, I particularly like the Mine Safety sign.

Geraint: Could shoot me your eamil address I have two off topic questions I want to ask you, thanks, John

This would probably interest Dick:

A scientist is finding that dyslexic children can learn Japanese easier than English, because Kanjii is processed in a different part of the brain.

You know I always wondered if Dick did not have a slight problem with his remoteness at times. Gets me into a lot of trouble with my duaghters and on more than one occasion I wished for a Dot in my life.

Regards

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Andy: I agree that a pop-tent style of folder, like a folding kayak, wouldn't do, and that a true folder, like the 'Handy Andy'(HA) is a better approach. And yes, making her fit the space available is imperative, hence my earlier post about cutting her down to make her a pram; that will reduce her LOA by at least a foot and allow her to fit below, on a bunk, when stowed. Dual purpose is a little trickier, and not so important to me so long as everything stows out of the way, but I expect thwarts could be used productively when not being sat upon. Redundancy in construction --e.g. using inflatable flotation bags structurally-- is an interesting idea. I'll work on that. As for getting the skin stretched tight, from the looks of the HA design, the transom and main thwart seem to take care of that pretty well, and a bow transom of the same ilk would likely improve the situation.

All that needs to be put on hold, however: I launched the sloop over the weekend and had my first sail yesterday, and winter projects such as folders need to wait until I'm not using my free time for sailing --or for refinishing my sister's 14' lapstrake sailing skiff. Ugh. Sanding a lapstrake skiff is like sanding a Triscuit...

Alex

posted via 12.72.244.215 user Pitsligo.

The spelling comment was a bit of an inside joke. I am an ex-pat Scot but my professional writing has been almost entirely for the US market.

posted via 108.16.162.217 user Didymus.

An aluminum/honeycomb/aluminum composite folding dinghy... Whew! Wouldn't that be something? My thinking of using dacron instead of cotton canvas is small potatoes by comparison. Light-weight modern materials do present some interesting potential for folders. My hesitations in using them are that my skill set (and shop) is entirely oriented to woodworking; many of them have (or require) toxic compounds which I am reluctant to use; I suspect they are considerably more expensive than ply and canvas; and while they're aesthetically appropriate to many situations, they quite likely look out of place with a plank-on-frame gaff-rigged sloop. Keep the suggestions coming, though. They're food for thought, and I can hardly complain about that.

(No worries about the American spelling. It is a bit odd to find it here, but as an American, I can get the gist of it.)

Alex
posted via 12.72.241.92 user Pitsligo.

Glad the info helped & best wishes with your attempt to emulate Mac.
posted via 194.164.38.65 user Geraint_Lewis.

Nothing so exciting, I'm afraid - the only thing I recall getting was an in-tray. But I think we have a plank in storage somewhere, in case of need.
posted via 194.164.38.65 user Geraint_Lewis.

I haven't seen the finished e-editions yet, but the plan is that they'll include the re-scanned & much improved images that Dave Sewart prepared a few years ago, and which now appear in the hardback and (subject to reprint status) paperback editions.
posted via 194.164.38.65 user Geraint_Lewis.

The only thing that makes the project attractive --the only thing that, I expect, makes *any* folding dinghy attractive-- is the lack of other stowage options. It is simply not practical to stow a solid tender on the deck of a 19' sloop while under way. As for inflatables, I've used them enough to know I hate them; they are absolutely not an acceptable tender for me.

I have for years towed my beloved 9' dinghy on our voyages, out of loyalty (she was my first boat), out of fondness for her handling, and out of the need for a tender. But she has a couple times now almost cost me my ship and, in doing so, once came close to costing me my life. That is on the extreme end of the nuisance spectrum of towing a tender, of course, but having experienced it, I would like to avoid it in the future. Hence, my research into folders.

A modified Handy Andy (bow cut back to make her a pram, lighter scantlings, etc.) is the current best option. If Berthon happens to have plans for a small folding tender, I think the photos I've found of the type look very sharp, and I'd sacrifice a little (*little*) ease of handing to have a design so pleasant to the eye.

Those are my thoughts thus far.

Alex
posted via 12.72.244.29 user Pitsligo.

posted via 108.16.162.217 user Didymus.

If I can get the plans for one of those Berthons, I'd be pretty thrilled. They're quite nice, and the shape of them, folded, looks like it'll make for easier stowage than even a "Handy Andy". I've emailed the Berthon company; we'll see what happens.

Alex
posted via 12.72.244.16 user Pitsligo.

Geraint: Hurrah! Exactly the info I was looking for originally. Thank you. The Berthon appears to be of more complex construction than the "Handy Andy", thus I will focus on building myself something like the latter, but having a sense of the options is always good. I may also contact Berthon and see if they still have the plans available, and if they might release them.

As for the Handy Andy, it is my intention to modify her from LOA 9' to LOA 8'(or so) by reworking her with a pram bow, both to better fit below on my sloop and to be more conveniently built from standard 4'x 8' plywood. Shouldn't be too horribly difficult --as Mac probably said when designing Sea Bear's folder...

Thank you, one and all.

Alex
posted via 12.72.245.6 user Pitsligo.

Yes. He was writing fiction, after all, and a novelist has to be allowed to invent wholesale- otherwise, why not just write history books?

But I was always struck by how accurate he was about Roger; all the jokes from the others about how he liked steam ships and motors, and then it turns out that years later he flew in the RAF and did asthma drug research.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.

I remember you with some fondness when we last met, but I am sure Roger would want to ask, when you became an executor, did you get a big axe and a black hood, or are you of the Chinese variety with the sword?

JMN
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Geraint
(Executor, Arthur Ransome Literary Estate)

• More details here

There's a history of the Berthon folding boat on Berthon's website: http://www.berthon.co.uk/about-berthon/berthon-history.html . The reproduction from their advertising/manufacturer's price & fact sheet is interesting, because Ransome owned a copy of this very document. It's normally kept in the Brotherton Collection. Interestingly, it's filed amongst Ransome's original line drawings for the SA Series books.

Ransome's copy has its prices updated in pencil, which seem to match the �23.8.0 that Roger mentioned higher up the thread (Message 37120). This would suggest it is the folder Ransome sold unused with Lottie Blossom in the early 1950s.

Is it also the model for his GN drawings? Well, he did reproduce the Berthon photograph as sketches in one of his sketch books, usually held at Abbot Hall. The photo also resembles the GN drawing of two people (John and Susan?) opening the boat. I'm not sure that there's any conclusive proof that AR had the Berthon flyer at the time he wrote GN, but the updated prices on his copy is circumstantial evidence that he had had the advertisement/flyer for some time.

Ransome's copy of the flyer is currently on display at Brantwood, as part of the Brantwood/Arthur Ransome Trust Imagination and Reality exhibition (http://www.arthur-ransome-trust.org.uk/news-and-events/current-and-future-events/imagination-and-reality-the-art-of-arthur-ransome/). Unfortunately we weren't able to display his sketch taken from the Berthon photo, because we wanted to exhibit a different page from that particular sketchbook.

Here's a photograph of a Berthon Folding Lifeboat (top photo): http://intheboatshed.net/2008/08/18/folding-boats-at-the-isle-of-wight-classic-boat-museum/

Incidentally, I understand that Windermere Steamboat Museum have an example in storage (and in need of renovation) so there's a chance that they'll be able to display one in the future.

posted via 194.164.38.65 user Geraint_Lewis.

Is there a link to the handy andy?

Thanks

John
posted via 74.192.45.5 user Mcneacail.

Hic liber est meus This book is mine.
Testis est Deus. As God witnesses
Si quis furetur Whoever steals it
A collo pendetur Will be hanged by the neck

The only difference was the last line which read in somewhat more Latin terms "Ad hunc modum." or "In this way" but again followed by a drawing of a gibbet, just as Roger added one to Missee Lee's book.

• Scroll down to N&Q:Book Dedications

Hic liber est meus This book is mine.
Testis est Deus. As God witnesses
Si quis furetur Whoever steals it
A collo pendetur Will be hanged by the neck

The only difference was the last line which read in somewhat more Latin terms "Ad hunc modum." or "In this way" but again followed by a drawing of a gibbet, just as Roger added one to Missee Lee's book.

• Scroll down to N&Q:Book Dedications

Hic liber est meus This book is mine.
Testis est Deus. As God witnesses
Si quis furetur Whoever steals it
A collo pendetur Will be hanged by the neck

The only difference was the last line which read in somewhat more Latin terms "Ad hunc modum." or "In this way" but again followed by a drawing of a gibbet, just as Roger added one to Missee Lee's book.

• Scroll down to N&Q:Book Dedications

Hic liber est meus This book is mine.
Testis est Deus. As God witnesses
Si quis furetur Whoever steals it
A collo pendetur Will be hanged by the neck

The only difference was the last line which read in somewhat more Latin terms "Ad hunc modum." or "In this way" but again followed by a drawing of a gibbet, just as Roger added one to Missee Lee's book.

• Scroll down to N&Q:Book Dedications

Thanks!

Alex
posted via 12.72.245.0 user Pitsligo.

After all they spotted the explorers within a short time of them trespassing on to the deer ground even though they didn't try and catch them right away. Nights in northern Scotland are very short, it is not quite the land of the midnight sun, but it never really gets dark up there in June and July so spotting nocturnal interlopers would not be hard.
posted via 192.75.48.150 user Adam.

The last we see of the action is the egg collector pinned against a rock by a ferocious dog.

What do they do with him? More to the point - what's to prevent him sneaking back after dark, or at some other time of his choosing, to get what he'd set his heart on? Can the Gaels be relied on to maintain a close, protective watch?

No. at the end of the book he is just standing there with his hands in the air. We need another chapter - to tie up the loose ends!
posted via 83.104.41.160 user cousin_jack.

Of course the whole point of the folder being a brute to handle is a plot device to upset Jemmerling and his crewman. If it had been a regular boat they would have escaped our heroes' clutches.

Which raises the end of GN. See new thread.
posted via 83.104.41.160 user cousin_jack.

I always wanted to start a coracle racing club. They would be match races, and for each heat, the winner had to drink a pint. By the time they reached the semi-finals, this "liquid trophy" system would have resulted in a self-handicapping arrangement. But that's wa-ay off topic...

Alex

posted via 12.72.244.114 user Pitsligo.

Was that the one made by an undertaker? In Riga?
posted via 95.149.115.169 user Magnus.

I may have to follow Mac's example and build my own "deservedly unique" tender!

Maybe I'd better learn to swim, first...

Anyhow, I'm not even sure how to internet search for AR-period folding boats. I was hoping someone might have stumbled across AR's inspiration. Or perhaps no such design existed at all: perhaps he needed to depart from proven, commercial designs so that Mac's folder was appropriately tiddly to dunk the villains at the critical moment.

Alex
posted via 12.72.244.28 user Pitsligo.

Alex
posted via 12.72.244.103 user Pitsligo.

Sorry about the double post.
posted via 71.237.31.253 user EricAbraham.

I would point out that having sailed from the age of 12, one follows the Captain's orders whatever the age, sailing is dangerous, having a fit on a boat in a blow could kill you. I have never had problems with the children understanding this point.

I have also found some families are very polite, a yound lady I know needed counselling upon starting school and being yelled, her family never yells, as I can well atest, as I yell all the time, but if my brother is skipper, I do what I am told when I am told, even though we argue at times.

JMN

posted via 165.91.199.7 user Mcneacail.

What design did AR have in mind when he drew the folder?

My curiosity is more than academic: I'm keeping an eye open for a folder that I could build as tender to my 19' sloop. The "Origami" is currently the best contender, for practicality, but aesthetically I find it lacking.

Alex
posted via 12.72.244.117 user Pitsligo.

Question is : which war and which prisoners?

posted via 86.154.6.127 user BerkScouse.