TarBoard: Recent Messages

Latest TarBoard Messages

[ Before posting it is necessary to be a registered user - the login box "pops up" when posting (Forgotten your Password ?)]

[ Start New Thread ]

are you sure this isn't your cache copy ?
Try your browser's Reload button


message 43360 - 03/27/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: 2016 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
Alan - How well I remember that TV link to permit me to "BE THERE" and never leave Florida. My mode of speech was intentionally kept free of certain heavy local dialect in view of who that audience was. I have done broadcasting on the radio in my younger days, working my way through college, and the guide there was "sound like Walter Cronkite" as that was hopefully a General American dialect, suitable for non-USA ears. I am glad you folks were able to understand me enough to get by, as hopefully that was my deliberate intent.

As for the DVD, for some fantastic reason, a DVD that works in England does not necessarily work in the USA. This S&A movie is a British product, available in the British DVD, but as for it ever making it across The Pond to be available in USA compatible format DVD, perhaps that is a long wait.

British Adult actors, I can hear and understand them, such as "FOLYE'S WAR" (an excellent police mystery TV series) It is the YOUNGER set like in Harry Potter and now in S&A that fail to land properly on my ears.

The version I was watching was on YOUTUBE, and as someone pointed out, it was probably an illegal copy, with poor reproduction of the sound which would garble the words even more. I did see a TRAILER version on YOUTUBE, and it being official, that sound seemed to be proper, and glory be, I was ABLE to HEAR them considerably better (if not perfectly). The lost of understanding therefore I believe to be the poor quality of the sound reproduction, but, that is all I had access to. My VCR cassette tape (this goes back quite some years) of the 1974 version was quite understandable for the most part. Meanwhile, this new S&A is just not within my grasp. Humph...
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43359 - 03/27/17
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: 2016 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
The problem may be modern sloppy acting.

In many ways, it may be modern, better acting. Although I always thought that Nancy would be more likely to used middle class "received pronunciation" than the regional accent she appears (from the trailer) to have been given in the film.

As for rapid cross-cutting, that's the modern fashion. It probably started in Hollywood.

Maybe in Hollywood, but really, I suspect that it's from TV and video games. For contemporary children, not for the likes of us.
posted via 90.254.43.134 user PeterC.


message 43358 - 03/27/17
From: Harry Miller, subject: Re: Bohemia in London
Thanks Andy. I agree. The passage is pure Ransome and the painting is perfect.
posted via 70.54.140.153 user dreadnaught.
message 43357 - 03/27/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: 2016 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
I've now had a look at my DVD, and Ed, you're quite right. The sound quality is very poor, and most characters are doing 'regional' accents, which makes it more difficult. But my 'official' DVD does have subtitles.
posted via 141.0.15.35 user awhakim.
message 43356 - 03/26/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: 2014 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
Ed, Where did you access the newest version? Was it in a movie theater?
posted via 184.151.63.226 user rlcossar.
message 43355 - 03/26/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: 2016 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
"Separated by a common language." But Ed, when you addressed the TARS Literary Weekend audience by video link, we had no difficulty understanding you. The problem may be modern sloppy acting.
I have the official DVD, but haven't watched it yet. Obviously time to get it out and see what it's like. As for rapid cross-cutting, that's the modern fashion. It probably started in Hollywood.
posted via 141.0.15.35 user awhakim.
message 43354 - 03/25/17
From: Jock, subject: Re: 2014 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
Ed, Do you mean the 2016 "Swallows and Amazons"? When I saw this, I had many problems with the new film.

The transfer to YouTube is technically incompetent and, illegal to boot.

I have seen the film courtesy of iTunes, Apple's platform for selling digital content. The sound is somewhat better than on YouTube. The other problems remain.

Time to reread the book!
posted via 178.43.117.5 user Jock.


message 43353 - 03/25/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: 2014 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
1974 version of S&A movie was quite understandable. The sound quality of the latest version just "swallowed" the sounds to the level of just noise, with an occasional word slipping by as understandable. Maybe ENGLISH as spoken in the Mother Country has shifted that far during these past few decades. When the 1974 version first came out, I was able to obtain a video TAPE to play on my VCR in a mode compatible with US requirements. That tape is to me a precious possession.

Perhaps the process of transferring the video from one medium to another caused the quality of the sound to become a bit damaged. I saw a YOUTUBE version. This problem did not seem to hurt the 1974 version on YOUTUBE however. The sound this time seemed to be just a NOISE, and it is quite natural to say that "A NOISE ANNOYS".

I also noticed in this new version that the camera action was very much UP CLOSE with very brief snap shifting quickly to the next glimpse. I was seemingly always shifting my point of view to the next point of interest, without the time it takes to discover just what that point might be, only to have the scene flip again. It was irritating. In real life, we quite often have out eyes flicking back at forth, from one point of interest to another with only brief moments on any one point, but for the camera to act like my eye movement was tiresome and irritating. I'll not be making the mistake of trying to view this new version any time soon. Much better to go read the book. That has always been a delightful experience.
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43352 - 03/25/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: 2014 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
Ed, have you seen the 1974 movie of S&A? Were you able to understand that? I haven't seen the new one so I can't do an actual comparison, but it could well be that the 1974 movie holds closer to "BBC" english which isn't terribly difficult for most Americans to understand. If you haven't seen the 1974 version yet, there's a link to it on YouTube from the Media Vault page in All Things Ransome.

Dave Thewlis
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43351 - 03/24/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: 2014 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
Sorry 'bout that, I got the gentleman's name incorrectly spelled, as it should have been "GABRIEL WOOLF" - mea culpa. I have all twelve of his recordings, both the early set of cassette tapes, and then a later issue of CD recordings, a valuable part of my Ransome collection. I especially enjoyed his rendition of certain local dialects, like Jacky, or the Eelman, or the Scots in GN?. But all quite understandable. Maybe it is the difference between his words, the words of an adult, and the dialect spoken by the children in S&A.
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.
message 43350 - 03/24/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: 2014 Movie "Swallows and Amazons"
Being an American, living in Kentucky, I was delighted to finally find an access to view the Movie of S&A 2014. Eager to finally get to see it, I found there was a problem similar to watching the HARRY POTTER movies, in that I only caught a word or two here and there, but mainly, was unable to understand the Accent the characters used, as being so unfamiliar to my own Southern American Dialect. HARRY POTTER on DVD gave me SUBTITLES in ENGLISH, so I was finally able to understand what was happening, but with no convenient translations into ENGLISH, I finally just had to give up on watching S&A as not being able to comprehend their words. If this comes out on DVD, and it has to be the AMERICAN style of DVD encoding, then maybe that will have ENGLISH subtitles, and then I can follow the events. Until such becomes available, and that may be never, I will just have to let this one slide on by, unviewed. Not happy about this, but the words spoken, especially by the children, are just not received. I got left out on this one, much to my disappointment. Harry Potter saved me by giving me subtitles; will S&A eventually do the same? "...a common people, separated only by our common language." Heard that somewhere... Now I understand. It is apparently not all that common after all, but at least, HERE on this Forum, we have the written word, not bothering with differences in pronunciation. I tried to watch, but it just did not work for me. Yet the spoken Ransome books by Wolfe seem to be quite comprehensible and a pleasure to experience.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]

posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43349 - 03/23/17
From: Andy, subject: Bohemia in London
I'm re-reading this (I've an October 1907 American edition) and loved the bit on coffee-stalls: it's so Ransome.

"There is something gypsyish about coffee-stalls, something very delightful. Since those days I've known many ... but there is none I have loved so well as this small untidy box on the Embankment. That was a joyous night when for the first time the keeper of the stall recognised my face and honoured me with talk as a regular customer. More famous men have seldom made me prouder. It meant something, this vanity of being able to add "Evening, Bill!" to my order of coffee and cake. Coffee and cake cost a penny each and are very good. The coffee is not too hot to drink, and the cake would satisfy an ogre."

...Or a Roger, I suppose.

But here's a thing: the Japanese artist mentioned later in the book is Yoshio Markino. And here's his painting of a (the?) coffee-stall, on the Embankment, dating to about the same time.

I'd like to think it's not a coincidence.

Andy
posted via 77.99.248.142 user Andy.


message 43348 - 03/21/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Islands Re: Not as thought/remembered
Ling Holme is far bigger than I envisage Cormorant Island. A small rocky island with a couple of bleached trees on it (from the cormorant droppings).
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43347 - 03/20/17
From: Duncan, subject: Re: Not as thought/remembered
That's the island that the Altounyans called Cormorant Island. But it's tiny. I don't think it's that much like the description. Most people seemed to think it was Silver Holme on Windermere (which is nothing like Cormorant Island now, but used to be less wooded when the cormorants lived there. I've often wondered about Ling Holme (but only because I'm obsessed with Wild Cat Island being Ramp Holme!!) Obviously that would have needed to be less wooded too! (This picture is Ling Holme by the way)

[ Image ]

posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.


message 43346 - 03/20/17
From: Jon, subject: Re: Not as thought/remembered
That's because it's on Coniston, just South of Peel Island. Went right by it on the Swallows and Amazons cruise.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 43345 - 03/20/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Not as thought/remembered
Cormorant Island is always an anomaly -- even as a child it struck me as strange and not real.

I do not remember seeing it on my sailing on Windermere.

posted via 165.91.13.85 user Mcneacail.


message 43344 - 03/20/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Not as thought/remembered
Cormorant Island is always an anomaly -- even as a child it struck me as strange and not real.

I do not remember seeing it on my sailing on Windermere.

posted via 165.91.13.85 user Mcneacail.


message 43343 - 03/18/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Not as thought/remembered
Have you re-read a book and discovered that something is not as you had thought it was?

I was checking the passage in S&A when Titty and Roger land on Cormorant Island to search for the "pirates' treasure" and was surprised to find the island was mainly covered in large rocks, and it was difficult to find a safe landing place. It is long time since I read the book, but in my mind Cormorant Island was mainly shingle and small pebbles. I wonder what else I've had wrong all these years?
posted via 81.140.174.146 user MartinH.


message 43342 - 03/08/17
From: David Maxwell, subject: Re: Suzie G. Heel
Thanks to all for the information!
posted via 97.78.238.94 user DavidMaxwell.
message 43341 - 03/08/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Suzie G. Heel
I found a rather sparse genealogy website (which focusses on celebrities) which indicates that Tabitha's daughter from her first marriage to Frederick Lewis, Hazel Vale, was the mother of the author Suzie Heel and the illustrator Sally Stride of the book "Once Upon a Magical Christmas Eve" which has the Ransome relationship on the cover, obviously hoping to cash in.

[ Image ]

posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43340 - 03/08/17
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Suzie G. Heel
Tabitha married John Lewis a dockworker in 1934; they had a son and daughter. Tabitha fell out with her father in 1942 when she offered to sell him his library of books (inherited from Ivy), and as he did not reply she sold them to a bookseller for the bargain price of £25. He thought that she should have offered them back to him for free! From I think the 2008 biography "The Last Englishman" by Roland Chambers. Not a happy family relationship.
posted via 202.154.145.35 user hugo.
message 43339 - 03/07/17
From: David Maxwell, subject: Suzie G. Heel
I've found an interesting book by a Suzie Heel, a great granddaughter of Arthur Ransome. Did Tabitha get married and have kids? Maybe I'm just forgetting things now but that does not sound familiar to me. Can someone enlighten me on this?
posted via 97.78.238.94 user DavidMaxwell.
message 43338 - 03/06/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands and two more
Three million cheers! Jolly well done, Dave.
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43337 - 03/05/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands and two more
THREE new videos... no idea where that missing "T" got to.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43336 - 03/05/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands and two more
hree new Youtube videos were added to the Media Vault of All Things Ransome today: Britain's Lost Waterlands: Escape to Swallows and Amazons Country; BBC - The Secret Life of Books Series 2 (2015) Part 6: Swallows and Amazons; and the full 1974 film of Swallows and Amazons.

posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43335 - 03/04/17
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Heading for the Broads district
Ah but did you get any 'suggestions' from George Owdon?
posted via 86.175.120.123 user Peter_H.
message 43334 - 03/04/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: What about Peggy?
I expect Mike Dennis's assessment is probably pretty accurate: AR needed Nancy to have a "sidekick", to showcase Nancy more clearly. Speaking as a writer myself, AR was also right at the limit of how many characters he could juggle, both in terms of keeping the story moving forward at a good pace and in keeping each character distinct within the all-cast scenes (especially writing with a younger audience in mind, where some subtlety of character must often be sacrificed for clarity). I have my thoughts on how he could have done it, to include a more developed Peggy, and perhaps should have done it, but it's easy (and unfair) to criticise when I'm not the one doing the writing.

Just my guess.

It's really too bad; as a character in her own right she has a lot to offer. She --and we, as readers-- got shorted as a lot of potential was ignored or set aside for story clarity. On the other hand, anyone writing S&A fan-fic has Peggy available as an open door into some very good stories.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43333 - 03/04/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: What about Peggy?
Good question! It's almost as if AR just needed a contrast to Nancy and nothing more.
posted via 95.149.130.55 user MTD.
message 43332 - 03/04/17
From: Tiss Flower, subject: What about Peggy?
I've always wondered why Peggy never got her moment to shine. She never really emerges from Nancy's shadow, even in WH when she does try to step into her sister's shoes. She seems to be something of an enigma. We know she's capable as she's as good a sailor as Nancy and we know she doesn't like thunderstorms. Otherwise she's the major character we know least about.
posted via 81.132.63.207 user Tiss_Flower.
message 43331 - 03/04/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Rites of Passage: John, Nancy... Dick?
It does seem AR was looking for a way to finish the series, but we know he was running out of ideas. Though CN is interesting it has always struck me as a bit 'forced', whereas GN gave him the chance to end things quite neatly.
posted via 95.149.130.55 user MTD.
message 43330 - 03/04/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Rites of Passage: John, Nancy... Dick?
I remember reading PD and ML as a child and not noticing the 'metafiction' idea, though I was confused by the PD references in SD. It's interesting there is no reference in the other books of how ML came about.

AR was clearly fond of Titty as a character as she does go through a number of events that could be said to be 'life changing'.
posted via 95.149.130.55 user MTD.


message 43329 - 03/03/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Rites of Passage: John, Nancy... Dick?
It's interesting to contemplate this in light of Coots in the North which Ransome started in the summer of 1943. It's unclear whether he eventually ran out of steam on CN by itself or whether Myles North's plot proposal in 1944 that turned into Great Northern? simply derailed CN (and maybe the Gamekeeper book as well?).

Perhaps if AR already had as a goal to find a conslusion for Disk, the the GN plot offered a better opportunity. Still, CN was shaping up to be the ultimate synthesis of the series (or perhaps he was balking at so obvious a completion?)
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43328 - 03/03/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Heading for the Broads district
Very many thanks to Peter Duck, who emailed me privately with a whole host of suggestions. :-)
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43327 - 03/03/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Rites of Passage: John, Nancy... Dick?
It is hard for me to comment on this, as the "meta fiction" label on PD, ML and GN was never apparent to me as a child, and I thus find it hard to embrace it now. They are all fiction, and yet so wonderful I don't spend even one second believing it isn't real when I'm reading.

However, I think Alex's ideas have strong merit, with regard to the graduation to adulthood. Maybe it doesn't matter whether it is meta fiction or not.

I wonder if AR set out to make a deliberate choice on this matter, or fell in a natural storytelling habit/pattern through which these sort of plots naturally occur to one?

AR did once say, about writing, "stick in a brat, and the others gain independence at once."

Perhaps it is silly to start hunting around for other 'graduation's, but I couldn't help thinking of Titty's dowsing. She definitely grows up a bit, but not really into an adult. I suppose there are several other similar times in her life: being left alone on the island (nearly calling Mother back), the voodoo wax Great Aunt, the final mapping task in SW... These are all tiny examples of her making herself be more mature. So not a 'graduation', but just a tangent my brain ran away with.
posted via 31.48.241.211 user Magnus.


message 43326 - 03/02/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Rites of Passage: John, Nancy... Dick?
Some very good points Alex.

My feeling is that though GN does allow Dick to make the move towards adulthood (and Titty as well, together in the final pages) the arguments for it being a metafiction along with PD and ML are strong. I do think AR wanted a way of bringing things to a close, and if you ignore some aspects of the plot and even the writing he does so quite effectively.
posted via 95.149.130.55 user MTD.


message 43325 - 03/02/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Rites of Passage: John, Nancy... Dick?
I think it's pretty well accepted that AR wrote WDMTGTS to be John's "graduation" to adulthood, meeting the challenge of taking Goblin across the North Sea. It's quite a rite of passage, and perfectly tailored for John both as we know him *and* as we anticipate his adult career path (in the RN).

In that light, a while back I hypothesized that PM was a similar effort by AR to provide a similar rite of passage for Nancy, as she assumes more of the role and responsibility of a woman in that era and culture. Some people here thought that hypothesis had merit, which pleases me, though I would hardly deem my speculation canon.

Those were both conclusions for the Swallows (particularly John) and the Amazons respectively. Aside from ML (unequivocally fantasy-based), they take much less active roles in the series after their "graduations", leaving the stories driven more by the younger characters and the Ds.

Building on those thoughts, was GN? meant to be yet another of these conclusions for AR? An attempt to give Dick the same sort of "graduation" into adulthood? What would be more relevant for the character than to make an enduring scientific discovery? And yet it had to be in keeping with the accidental/inadvertant nature of the trials in WD and PM and, further, for the sake of plausibility, couldn't be too grand a discovery --something that re-wrote archeology, or minerology, or something that brought Dick (inter)national acclaim. It had to be important but understated; a proof of the character's character and a validation of the character's relevance within their world.

Does GN? fall into is-it-real-or-is-it-Peter-Duck? uncertainty because AR had to walk a fine line between an adventure that was plausible for his young, largely average characters and giving Dick a relevant rite of passage --which, for a scientific discovery, required something beyond what an average youth might experience? It must thus, by its nature, touch on science that will affect a greater sphere than just the characters, and thereby be a story that stretches our willing suspension of disbelief beyond so much of the preceeding series.

So was GN? his conclusion for Dick just as WD was for John and (arguably) PM was for Nancy, and are the elements necessary to that goal why GN? reads a bit more like fantasy?

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43324 - 02/27/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Heading for the Broads district
... later this year. Also Pin Mill and Secret Water, and catching up with JW of SOS. Anything else we should particularly do/see if we can fit it in?
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43323 - 02/21/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Two Lake District TV documentaries
There is also a programme on BBC4 at 21.00 tonight about the South Downs National Park. It could well include something about Chichester Harbour, where AR kept his boat in his later years.
posted via 141.0.14.72 user awhakim.
message 43322 - 02/21/17
From: Jock, subject: Re: Two Lake District TV documentaries
Sadly, dear Auntie's beeb-player only works if you have a UK IP address.
posted via 178.43.129.210 user Jock.
message 43321 - 02/20/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Two Lake District TV documentaries
In the last week or two there have been not one but two separate documentaries about the Lake District on BBC TV, each one hour long.

Life of a Mountain: a year on Blencathra is a sequel to the previous simlar film about Scafell Pike, which I think was discussed on here.

I've forgotten how to put more than one clickable link in a post so you'll have to copy and paste this one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08f1cc0

The Lake District: A Wild Year also covered a one-year period and focussed on a sheep farm, including the rescue of a cragfast sheep, and some natural history - the programme website is linked below:

posted via 2.31.117.134 user eclrh.
message 43320 - 02/15/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Another famous writing chair is that of Roald Dahl. An ancient old thing, with a hole hacked our for his bent spine, tucked into a cold shed full of knick knacks (just as AR liked), a blanket on his knees and a board on his lap.

I strongly recommend visiting the Roald Dahl museum (Buckinghamshire, UK) if you can. Fascinating for adults and kids.

[ Image ]

posted via 81.156.117.125 user Magnus.


message 43319 - 02/14/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Apparently the chair is in the Harry Ransom Library (the name provides a tenuous connection with AR if anyone's looking for one) at the University of Texas, Austin. I have no idea how it got there. The makers were stated to be J. Foot & Son, who were then at 171 New Bond Street London, and who were in existence from at least 1901 to 1929.

When you say "the mother" do you mean the mother of Deedre, er, Diedre, er, Deidre, er, you know, that girl? :)
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.


message 43318 - 02/14/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Ah, that takes me back! Them were the days when we had drink and biscuits provided for meetings. Embarrassingly now we point our visitors in the direction of the cafeteria and ask them to purchase their own refreshments.
posted via 86.175.180.84 user MartinH.
message 43317 - 02/14/17
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
In a BBC radio comedy years back, someone applying for the job of pushing a tea-trolley round a government building was asked whether she had the required BSc in Chemical Engineering for the post.

posted via 86.153.140.208 user Paul_Crisp.
message 43316 - 02/14/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
CM's chair -- find out what museum it is in - we can then measure it.

I still think he should have had Kilwillie marry the mother

John
posted via 128.194.94.27 user Mcneacail.


message 43315 - 02/14/17
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Back in the 1970s, meetings with civil servants in Sanctuary Buildings, Westminster, often began with a discussion of which hot brown drink had been served. The best clue was the time of day.
posted via 92.18.214.192 user Mike_Jones.
message 43314 - 02/13/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Ah well, I'm glad the chair sparked some interest. I think it's a fascinating article myself, I admit. Anyway, here's a larger version of the picture so you can better see how things work. (Sorry Alex, but I don't have the plans.)

[ Image ]

posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.


message 43313 - 02/13/17
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
I don't know where Mike finds these things, either; he's a gentleman of infinite resource! I also think that it is a thing of wonder, but just a little too upright for my taste. I'll stick to my recliner, thanks.
David
posted via 121.214.35.6 user David.
message 43312 - 02/13/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
The hot drink machines produced a uniformly foul brown liquid - many believed it made no difference whether you pressed 'tea' or 'coffee'.

That reminded me of a well-known line from Douglas Adams:

"He had found a Nutri-Matic machine which had provided him with a plastic cup filled with a liquid that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea."

posted via 2.31.187.235 user eclrh.


message 43311 - 02/13/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
That chair is insanely awesome!

Where did you find it, and how do I get plans? I need to build myself one.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43310 - 02/13/17
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Crikey - it looks a bit like Old Sparky.

Doesn't it just?

posted via 90.252.185.154 user PeterC.


message 43309 - 02/13/17
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Crikey - it looks a bit like Old Sparky.
posted via 86.182.41.52 user Peter_H.
message 43308 - 02/13/17
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands- tea tea tea
Flint -- I was speaking metaphorically -- it is a bad as the 1860's in London

Oh, indeed. I though of it as a splendid conceptual parallel. But not Liptons.
I live in one of the more interesting, liveliest and loveliest bits of London, Peckham (one of the Donald's no-go areas, I think, complete with East End gangster funerals up the road) and it's in Lambeth which in Victorian pre-Bazalgette days was a cholera hot spot, as it drew its water from the Thames directly below the Vauxhall outflow from the City (this is from memory- if anybody wishes to correct the detail, please do).
Now, the water is sweet and cool, much better tasting than it was in the more prosperous South West of London where we used to live.
But I still drink tea from Waitrose Indian Chai bags, with milk, and it reminds me happily of that roadside tea seller in Delhi.
posted via 90.252.185.154 user PeterC.


message 43307 - 02/12/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Seventy-six years now, John. And CM has been gone for forty-five of them.... I have 'Whisky Galore' on tape, and re-watch it regularly.

Here's a photo of his wonderful writing-chair, which will amuse and interest his fans.

[ Image ]

posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.


message 43306 - 02/12/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Flint -- I was speaking metaphorically -- it is a bad as the 1860's in London -- we just kill the children slowly with lead instead of quickly with Cholera. Long live john Snow.

Everything in SA goes better with a cup of tea.

As Ed so wonderful post points to the all consuming presence of iced Tea in the South -- terrible stuff, worse than the worst cup of tea stewed for 2 day and then strained through old socks. Everyone around me drinks it.
Of course most of it is Lipton's Never in the course of human history, has one man made so much money from losing.'

I finished the movie, actually it left me feeling upbeat. The boat scene was interesting - the only funny thing in the end was the slow take off speed -- that was rigged, the rest was suitably scary, although one must remember the boats had a hull speed of about 5 knots. Why the heck did they not borrow two unstayed boats, take 2 phone calls and a couple of quid?

I will watch it again -- I beleive it is the 75th anniverary of the SS Politician. Long live CM.



posted via 50.24.59.133 user Mcneacail.


message 43305 - 02/11/17
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Clean water and plumbing (no foul arrows or slings please) is an important consideration at the time and really up to to that point in time and one must say in Flint now.

I'd have thought that at the time, clean water would have been crucial, what with surrounding farming, and the lakes being such convenient sinks for sewage, and tea would have been a solution. As it is now with roadside tea sellers in India, where water borne diseases are very common.
In Delhi, I used to get tea from a roadside seller. He had a clay built charcoal fireplace, always lit, with a metal kettle. He added the milk and sugar before putting it on to boil. He would then pour it into unfired clay cups, which would last just long enough for you to drink the tea, but which would collapse into a lump of clay shortly afterwards, and be added to a pile of waste clay nearby. Result; you were assured that the tea was sterile, and that your actual cup was freshly made and free of contamination from previous customers.
It seemed to work; I drank quite a few cups from the particular seller, and had no gut troubles at all.
Flint's lead contamination wouldn't be be fixed by tea drinking, however.
posted via 90.252.185.154 user PeterC.


message 43304 - 02/10/17
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands now tea
A few thoughts on tea.
No machine that uses plastic cups can produce decent tea. Boiling water either melts the cup or makes it sag badly so that the tea spills. Boiling water proof cups for machines can be produced, but the used to cost £1.53 against £0.02 for the standard plastic cup.
The British Army has always produced foul tea. But if you have just completed a route march with a heavy pack – it seemed like nectar. Legend has it that the tea was laced with bromide to restraint the soldier’s sexual ardour. Milk may well have been cooked with the tea to pasteurise it and prevent an outbreak of TB.
IBM tea made in their London offices, which was made in a warmed teapot with boiling water. They used Lyons Orange Label (does anyone remember this?) tea. No tea bags in the pot – a major plus point.
Nowadays the teabag in a mug has become the standard way of tea making in most offices and many homes. A point of difference is to warm the mug over the kettle spout.
Iced tea without milk has been popular for many years. With lemon or lime it does make an excellent drink in warmer weather. Many people use Earl Grey for this type of tea.
Force cereal was discontinued in 2013 after 112 years of production. I did buy it occasionally for its S&A connections, it was a cornflake type of product and may be reintroduced as manufacturers seek to reduce the amount of sugar, salt and artificial colouring in cereals.

posted via 87.113.133.203 user OwenRoberts.
message 43303 - 02/10/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
I must speak up on behalf of the IBM tea drinkers. Most of us were British, with no pretence of being American. The hot drink machines produced a uniformly foul brown liquid - many believed it made no difference whether you pressed 'tea' or 'coffee'. Surprisingly, this was very popular.
Personally, I hardly ever bought the stuff. I called this saving of expense my tax-free income.
posted via 141.0.14.217 user awhakim.
message 43302 - 02/10/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Boiling water:

Clean water and plumbing (no foul arrows or slings please) is an important consideration at the time and really up to to that point in time and one must say in Flint now.

National Geographic once noted that the Japanese/Chinese workers died at a much lower rate on the railroad construction across America than the Irish - drank tea instead of water.

The latest NG includes a good article on why beer is better than water if you have a contaminated supply and it is impossible to tell contamination until you are sick or dead.

In Oz in the 60's milk and 6 sugars - stuff it - just give me the sugar

Ed - I love your post -- well done old bean.

What is one man's midden is another man's archeological treasure.

John
posted via 128.194.94.60 user Mcneacail.


message 43301 - 02/10/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
British Army, I should have made clear.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43300 - 02/10/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
That's certainly possible. Another data point, I had breakfast once in c. 1962 with a British unit near Hannover on an exercise. Big urns with tea premixed with milk. Perhaps it was an institutional thing.

To this day I like tea with milk (NOT iced tea of course) even though I have always preferred my coffee black
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43299 - 02/09/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Sounds to me Ed as if the IBM people were from the US and trying to be English (in my experience of them it happened quite often!)
posted via 2.31.100.146 user MTD.
message 43298 - 02/09/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
As a child I didn't understand the obsession with tea, but looking back I realise you had to boil the lake water to drink it safely, so you might as well have a cuppa.

Otherwise we'd have the books dealing with constantly boiling water and then leaving it to cool somewhere. Or adding a few drops of bleach.

Finding milk sources is also documented by AR in 'Racundra's First Cruise', and the 'Third' book too.
posted via 81.156.117.125 user Magnus.


message 43297 - 02/09/17
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
"Sometimes the tea would be used in their cereal "Force" but mostly it was for the tea."

Sounds revolting :)

I seem to recall Susan was slightly shamed of the shortcut of using Force (with milk) rather than making porridge.


posted via 101.178.163.14 user Allan_Lang.


message 43296 - 02/09/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
John - Ed here, enjoying a big glass of tea - Very Cold with ICE made by freezing the tea itself, so the melting does not dilute the drink. It has a twist of lemon to spark the flavor, but I dare not foul the drink with any thought of adding "milk" as that would not be my cup of tea.

In job assignment overseas that took me to London (the IBM offices there) I noticed the drink dispenser in those offices offered only one thing, tea, and the milk came with it with no option to the contrary. I once spoke to one of the IBM gentlemen working there about the tea and asked him why is there milk in this tea, wo which he responded, "To drink tea, without milk, would be terribly uncivilized." Well, that explains that...

It reminded me that in our beloved Ransome stories, it is of primary importance that a local source of milk be found so they could have their tea. Sometimes the tea would be used in their cereal "Force" but mostly it was for the tea. There were a few exceptional moments when for some reason they had to take the tea without the milk, but they seemed to brave through with no loss of life resulting.

Observing this custom was just one of the many rewards of reading Ransome's so very realistic stories. As a reader, I felt I was a part of the party; I was there with them. The language was a bit different, but then that was just part of the adventure, exploring those tid bits of differences in vocabulary and in the spelling.

Some words needed help from the Tarboard members to understand, and I am grateful for their explanations. I never would have understood what "MIDDEN" was without someone's definition. That word was used in describing the GA, as: "Girt auld hen 'at wants to be cock o' t' midden." (PM CH6) There were dialect words, like "YIN" (Jacky talk) meaning "one."

It was a fascinating education I got from those books, and not just how to sail. There are many that can say they learned to sail just from reading these books, and I am glad to among them. Building a campfire, hanging a pot over it, signalling, Never tried guddling for fish, but an interesting idea that is. Tried to use a devining rod but nothing happened. Sigh... At least I tried.

With my daughter living next door, I get to enjoy a "Ransome Moment" when I see a light in a bedroom window, flashing Morse, to which I immediately respond. Oh, there is the cell phone of course, but somehow Morse made it very special. It brings back that magical moment when Nancy happened to see, far away at the northern end of the lake, the flashing of the letters, "NP" and she understood. Now that was communication. When I read that moment, I feel like cheering with both arms raised high, as if celebrating the making of a Touchdown (American Football.) But then, that is what Reading these Stories does; it makes me want to cheer - and give thanks for giving me such delights.

I need to pour more tea into the ice tray to prepare more cubes. This glass here just finished that last lot.

So, to my fellow Ransome world adventurers, I lift my glass and say,

"CHEERS"

Ed Kiser, Kentucky USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43295 - 02/09/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
I agree a nice chap, although I once remember a TARS wife who said :: "Old men who enjoy a nice cup of tea." Or in Ed's case possible gatoraide

John

posted via 165.91.12.98 user Mcneacail.


message 43294 - 02/09/17
From: Jock, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Another documentary, this time by Ben Fogle, covering SA, Coniston, and the making of the first SA film.
posted via 178.43.119.116 user Jock.
message 43293 - 02/08/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Indeed, a thorough gentleman. And his boat Peggy Blackett is almost a dead ringer for Amazon too, so another tick for him. :)
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43292 - 02/08/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Also one of AR's Literary Executors and a trustee of the AR Trust.
posted via 141.0.14.219 user awhakim.
message 43291 - 02/08/17
From: Jock, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands- AR locations
Both the cottage and Quay house were raised up in the 1980/90s

...and some time earlier after the 1953 flooding the sea walls were raised and reinforced with concrete slabs. The top end of the creek was cut off by the realigned sea wall.

posted via 178.43.119.116 user Jock.


message 43290 - 02/07/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Geraint Lewis - I met him about 15 years ago at Holly Howe when we stayed for a few days, think a youngish Captain Flint with a wife and a boat.

posted via 165.91.12.11 user Mcneacail.
message 43289 - 02/06/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
Thanks very much Ed, that's a wonderful find -- one which I thoroughly enjoyed.

I also found a half-hour documentary by John Sergeant on YouTube about 'Swallows and Amazons' itself in the BBC's 'Secret Life of Books' series. It contains quite a bit about Ransome himself as well as the book, and includes conversations with Geraint Lewis and Christina Hardyment (with both of whom I'd corresponded but never actually met).

posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43288 - 02/06/17
From: Jon, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands
My only regret is that they didn't call out more specific places; I think I recognized many of the Lakes and Broads locales, but it'd be nice to be sure.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 43287 - 02/06/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands- AR locations
Unfortunately Witch's Quay no longer looks how it did in AR's day. Both the cottage and Quay house were raised up in the 1980/90s to protect from flooding which altered the appearance of the cottage in particular.
posted via 95.149.55.173 user MTD.
message 43286 - 02/06/17
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Constable Sam
Sammy Lewthwaite the policeman is wrong to blame John for the houseboat burglary (as suggested by Jim Turner) in SA. But he was right about the Amazons being connected with the study burglary in PM; and Nancy says he was “quite good for a policeman” when the GA describes Timothy and Sammy asks how she could be sure of the colours of his clothes in the moonlight. The GA had seen Timothy “loitering” near the house during the day, and says that suspicious characters should be locked up before they carry out any housebreaking!
posted via 203.96.130.39 user hugo.
message 43285 - 02/06/17
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Britain's Lost Waterlands- AR locations
Click on this link, and sit back, and enjoy the trip to Ransome Land, made to be REAL.

Yes, I saw it on transmission and enjoyed it, although I suspect that as I live in London, the real places are really just down the road.

But I find the best exploration is Google Street View. Not everywhere is covered, of course, but for instance Bank Ground Farm (Holly Howe) and Lanehead (the Collingwood home) are literally neighbours. I never realised that until I "looked" at them. You can imagine AR walking across the intervening field to propose to successive Collingwood daughters. The transformation of Lanehead into a local council centre means you need a bit of imagination to work your way back to the '30s, but it's very doable. And if you look up "Low Ludderburn, Cartmel Fell" you can get to the wiggle in the lane where AR and Evgenia lived while he wrote the earlier books, look into the window of his "office" in the converted barn, see the wooden garage that they built for Rattletrap. It's powerfully evocative.
And actual locations in the stories are best found on the Broads, where the locations are well covered, and at Pin Mill, which has Alma Cottage, the Butt and Oyster and the hard pretty well unchanged from AR's pictures, and to a certain extent Hamford Water, where you can see views around the Wade, and the lane that leads towards Witch's Quay, although not as far as the place itself. It all takes me back.
posted via 90.252.185.154 user PeterC.


message 43284 - 02/05/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Constable Sam
Classed as an act of terrorism - bet the Insurance Co said no

John
posted via 50.24.59.133 user Mcneacail.


message 43283 - 02/05/17
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Constable Sam
I can't help but picture the insurance clerk who reads the claim form submitted by the car's owner; "the car was blown up by the police." I'm sure that the police would have to explain to the insurance company, who are know to have no sense of humour when it comes to claims.
David
posted via 120.144.160.247 user David.
message 43282 - 02/05/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Britain's Lost Waterlands
BRITAIN'S LOST WATERLANDS: ESCAPE TO SWALLOWS AND AMAZONS COUNTRY BBC DOCUMENTARY 2016

For the Ransome fan that does not live in England, our chances to see the REAL places where his characters have as a playground are rare and never. You Englanders can view these places in person with a comparative minimum of travel efforts to do so. For that, us foreigners can feel a bit of, well, let's call it "aw shucks..."

For the Lake District Ransome stories, he created an environment that was quite a bit re-arranged from the actual locations in the real world. The places we know and love from his stories may have real places in his mind, but the actual locations did get a bit of shifting. So "the Lake" of Ransome's stories does not really exist but does share some similarities with Coniston and Windemere.

However, in the Broads stories of Coot Club and Big Six, and the North Sea tales of We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea and Secret Water, he managed to maintain a much more realistic "map" that closely resembles the actual geography of the regions.

To us foreigners, it is quite a delight to be able to "visit" (vicariously) these three locations and see the "real" places mentioned in his stories.

Through the magic of the internet, and of video cameras, we now have that chance to "visit" those places that Ransome made so dear to us all. On YOUTUBE, there is a BBC DOCUMENTARY that takes us to all three of these locations to see the REAL thing. As a foreigner (in the USA) I am grateful for this opportunity to get that first hand viewing of the actual places.

Click on this link, and sit back, and enjoy the trip to Ransome Land, made to be REAL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLjkfU1KziY&index=9&list=PLfmDakLYDgMzjztSuegZCfltsssiVPHga

Hope you enjoyed your "trip"...
Ed Kiser, USA, [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43281 - 02/05/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Constable Sam
The incident sounds like something that would happen to Constable Sammy from the SA series.

It was humorous

posted via 50.24.59.133 user Mcneacail.


message 43280 - 02/05/17
From: andy clayton, subject: Re: Ransome Characters played by actors
Even AR had this problem. He developed the S & A characters in his head and his books, then when he went to visit the Altounyans in Syria, he experienced a terrible clash of fiction and reality which led to a falling out with the family. This is a problem, particularly with children who grow and change so fast, but also with friends who are separated for long periods of time. We have to be prepared to renew the friendship.
posted via 80.189.220.32 user cousin_jack.
message 43279 - 02/04/17
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Film Thoughts
That's an interesting approach, but I wonder whether the problem is really that SA is actually not the best and most adaptable of the books. I think it was Hugh Brogan who suggested that WH was the first of the series to show AR at his best, but film makers have never seen past the brand value of SA. Even the BBC adaptations of CC and BS were branded Swallows and Amazons for Ever!


posted via 88.110.90.72 user Mike_Jones.


message 43278 - 02/04/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Film Thoughts
I'm re-reading Peter Duck right now and though I have not had the opportunity to see this new film yet I'm wondering if people could accept it more if they looked at it as story created by the children. Peter Duck and even Great Northern (which I consider not a made up story) deal with bad people, violence and even guns. It seems to me it might fit the cannon when viewed this way.

Thoughts?
posted via 184.151.37.150 user rlcossar.


message 43277 - 02/04/17
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Ransome Characters played by actors
The actor who played Tom Dudgeon, Henry Dimbleby, is the grandson of one of the UK's most famous broadcasters, Richard Dimbleby. As a BBC correspondent, he reported the D Day landings and made the first radio broadcast from Belsen, and went on to a distinguished TV career. Henry's father and uncle are also well known broadcasters, but he has not followed in their footsteps; he is a food columnist and co-founder of a restaurant chain.
posted via 88.110.90.72 user Mike_Jones.
message 43276 - 02/04/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Ransome Characters played by actors
In looking at the movie, "Coot Club," I discovered a few background facts regarding certain actors.

A Hullabaloo, "Jerry," was played by Julian Fellowes, who some years later, was the author of the "Downton Abbey" hit series on TV. As much as I enjoyed that series, I wonder if my delight with it would have been altered by knowing it was written by a Hullabaloo. But really, it wasn't; it was written by the actor who played the role of a Hullabaloo.

The young boy, "Pete," was played by Jake Coppard, who died in 1986 at age 15, about two years after making his "Coot Club" and "Big Six" appearances.

We see these people as Ransome Characters, and somehow we feel we "know" them. Then comes the realization that the actor playing that role is his own person totally unrelated to the character that we see in the movie. It is sometimes a bit of surprise to find out things about these REAL people with lives of their own.

Too bad about "Pete" - there was no indication in the article as to the cause of death. All too young to have life cut so short.
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43275 - 02/03/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Constable Sam
Umm...?


Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43274 - 02/03/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Constable Sam
A bomb squad was called after concerns about an unattended Vauxhall Corsa at Workington police station, Cumbria.

Roads around the building, in Hall Brow, were sealed off and an explosion carried out at 08:00 GMT.

The force blamed "an internal communications error" and apologised to the owner.

Cumbria Police said other officers on duty were not aware colleagues had parked the car outside the station after helping its owner, who had been taken ill.


The building was evacuated, a 100m cordon put in place and the vehicle blown up.

Insp Ashley Bennett said: "We have made contact with the owner of the vehicle, explained the situation and have apologised to him.

"The officers who dealt with this morning's incident did so with public safety in mind and followed the appropriate procedures in respect to an unoccupied suspicious vehicle.

"The constabulary will review this incident and will take on board any learning."

posted via 128.194.94.60 user Mcneacail.


message 43273 - 02/02/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - Climax doubts
Absolutely.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43272 - 02/01/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
I still want a chance to see it here in Canada
posted via 184.151.37.150 user rlcossar.
message 43271 - 02/01/17
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: 2016 Film - Climax doubts
Mike - in my experience, when things don't match up children are the first to notice!
posted via 81.129.123.43 user Peter_H.
message 43270 - 02/01/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Film Thoughts
Why did they not use the old Swallow that I part own (somehow) -- it does not have shrouds -- real bummer that was.

Which lake is in the movie?


posted via 128.194.94.26 user Mcneacail.


message 43269 - 02/01/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Film Thoughts
I started watching the film last night on my small computer screen.
My thoughts on the film,
first minute the year is listed as 1935 - makes no difference to the film so why change.

Greenock is the birthplace of the script writer in Scotland so the change in Mrs Walker is obvious, the writer has not done a film for 12 years and average ratings on the films is 6.6. So at average.

Only 90 running minutes and assuming 20-60 words per minute you are limited to 7000 words, so you have to take 3/4 of the book out. If you want the full book need a 5 hour movie like King Lear.

Lake has been bastardized and the map is really weird. What lake was it?

I cannot see why they mixed stuff up - charcoal burners, that story about lighting fire is just weird and the original better.

Snake in hand -- weird as well

Old Billy was in his 80s.

For the life of me I cannot see why even with the interesting changes and I have no great problem with the spy bit, AR probably did spy in some ways they did not stick to book bits --

Kids being kids is really Billy Bunterish and the overboard scene - pure farce.

Mrs Jackson would not be miscast in Taming of the Shrew and why did Mr Jackson have a truck - more likely a cart.

Amazon's - a random pair of English girls from a random boarding school would have been better.

I loved Titty and Roger was ok for his age.

So the author needed a good kick in the pants from someone who has some film experience and can understand how to portray AR elements without being childish.

Mrs. Walker smoking -- I bloody doubt it

The travelling north wasted 16 good minutes, 2 minutes could have introduced Cpn Flint and spys,

More after watching the end tonight.

I actually liked most of it - I hate the two mothers -- makes me think of a love in in the 60's and Scotland in 1890.


John
posted via 128.194.94.26 user Mcneacail.


message 43268 - 02/01/17
From: Mike Jones , subject: Re: 2016 Film - Climax doubts
It's a children's film. Suspension of disbelief?
posted via 82.132.228.145 user Mike_Jones.
message 43267 - 01/31/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: 2016 Film - Climax doubts
Impossible in the extreme
posted via 50.24.59.133 user Mcneacail.
message 43266 - 01/31/17
From: Peter Hyland, subject: 2016 Film - Climax doubts
I have given my opinion on the new film and don’t want to add to it, but I would be interested to know what others thought of the climactic event of the film – the attempt by the crews of ‘Amazon’ and ‘Swallow’ to prevent the aircraft which carries the captured Capn Flint from taking off from the lake. They do this by stretching a rope between the two boats so that it catches on the undercarriage (floats) of the aircraft.

I am not a sailor, so I may be completely wrong here, but it seems to me that to navigate two small sailing boats, using wind alone (no engines or oars), into the correct position on the lake, and then maintain station, keeping the rope taut, would take some time, depending on the wind conditions (in the film, there didn't seem to be any wind at all). I’m guessing but I would have thought at least 5-10 minutes. In the film, the time from the moment ‘Nancy’ throws the rope to ‘John’ to the moment the rope is caught on the undercarriage is 30 seconds (I have timed it). Surely this would not be possible?

By the way, I realise that film action is often time-condensed, but the problem here is that the simultaneous events aboard the plane are in real time. And by the way again, it looks to me as though ‘Nancy’ used a slip-knot to attach the rope to Amazon’s stem, so she was able to cast it off, but ‘John’ used a fixed knot, so he had to cut the rope with his pen-knife.

posted via 81.129.123.43 user Peter_H.


message 43265 - 01/31/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
Regarding "HIED".

Two references to the word "SHIED" - ML and PP, but no "HIED". At least, none in my TXT copies that I typed in myself, which makes that source subject to typo errors not found in the original books. There were those moments that I felt I had found an error, and corrected it in my version. Wish now I had left it alone, but that is the value of hind-sight.
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43264 - 01/31/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
Anyone who knows Shakespeare's Twelfth Night will remember Olivia saying, "Hie thee, Malvolio" when she wants him to act quickly.
posted via 141.0.14.146 user awhakim.
message 43263 - 01/31/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Rating films (was Contrasting Viewpoint)
Jock:

I can be as critical as the next boatswain, but if you look at the statistics the film achieved an 8.7 from Under 18 girls, granted a small set of numbers and one would normally question the statistical validity, but it is an indicator that perhaps the movie could reach a subset of girls who are not always shown in the best light in movies, I will let my 9 and 12 year old watch the DVD I just got and I will let you know.

Of course one could argue that effectively Nancy has more Y chromosome than John. (Personal and controversial opinion)

John

posted via 128.194.94.27 user Mcneacail.
message 43262 - 01/31/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Rating films (was Contrasting Viewpoint)
Interesting Jock, a quick look at the reviews showed that most of those that liked had not ever read the book. We also have to remember that it is not yet been released in the USA. Anyone know why?
posted via 95.145.229.242 user MTD.
message 43261 - 01/31/17
From: Jock, subject: Rating films (was Contrasting Viewpoint)
The Internet Movie Database (IMDb) audience ratings give quite a reasonable indication of audience reaction to a film.
I thought that it would be interesting to see how the new S&A film compared to some other family films.

7.9 – The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey
7.5 – Hugo
7.5 – Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
7.2 – The Hunger Games
6.8 – Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children
6.8 – Pete's Dragon
6.4 – The BFG (2016)

Now for the ratings of some classic films:

7.8 – Mary Poppins
7.9 – E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
8.0 – The Sound of Music

And now for the IMDb rating of Swallows and Amazons (2016):

6.3!



posted via 178.43.127.230 user Jock.


message 43260 - 01/30/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
Though some of my criticisms of the film were to the way the source material was use, other observations I would have made if I had watched it having never read the book. The main reason in that it was a period piece presented as if it was the present day.
posted via 2.31.100.195 user MTD.
message 43259 - 01/30/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
"Hie" was used in my childhood too, but more with the connotation of "progressing towards" rather than "moving with alacrity".
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43258 - 01/30/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
I certainly agree with the first part of your comment Dave, and I hope you're right about the rest too....
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43257 - 01/30/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
Nor to me, as in "to hie after" something or someone. But I am not sure I've heard it in conversation in America, and I probably learned it from a book at a young age.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43256 - 01/30/17
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
I think that the fact that we, who are familiar with the original story, can watch the 1974 movie with some pleasure forty-three years later is a tribute to that film, and Claude Whatham's skill as a director. The new film, I feel, will sink without trace quite quickly.
posted via 110.148.118.20 user David.
message 43255 - 01/30/17
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
'Hie' is not a new verb to me John. I have always understood it to mean to move with a certain alacrity. I believe that its origin is Scottish, and so it would have been quite appropriate to use it in GN.
posted via 110.148.118.20 user David.
message 43254 - 01/30/17
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
I have commented on this film twice on Tarboard: after seeing it in the cinema with my eight-year old grandson, and after viewing the DVD at home with my AR library glowering down at me from the shelves. As I said, it worked as a film in the cinema, though some of it jarred, but was a much less happy experience at home.

As far as I can see, the film was reviewed, as it should have been, by professional film critics with weekly columns in their newspapers, whose job it is to review what they see as films, not primarily as adaptations of source material that is not in their area of expertise. Even a film critic who happened to be an AR enthusiast would still be expected to review SA as a film in its own right and judge it accordingly, though he/she might comment on its faithfulness as an adaptation. If such faithfulness had been the basis for judging the various film versions of The 39 Steps, 1 or 2 out of 5 might have been about right.

On that professional basis, 3/5 seems a reasonable score to have given it, though it goes without saying that the earlier film was a much more faithful adaptation.

posted via 92.18.213.247 user Mike_Jones.


message 43253 - 01/30/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
How hard is it to make a good movie from such excellent material?

I stumbled across the word hied - several times at the weekend in 3 different books, I have seen it before but not that regularly -

Ed is in hied in the AR books, I do not recall it - but I am not going to read them all - each author used to express speed

John
posted via 128.194.94.27 user Mcneacail.


message 43252 - 01/30/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
A professional negative review would be interesting to see - there must be one somewhere!
posted via 2.28.84.53 user MTD.
message 43251 - 01/30/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
"Don't let someone who has read it review it." Ugh. I suspect you're right, but on the off chance a knowledgeable review has slipped past the movie industry kapos, and someone here knows about it, a link would be appreciated.

As I said, it needs to be a professional review --Amazon.com reviews don't count-- to survive on Wiki. I haven't yet figured out a good way to cite AR forums to illustrate that devoted fans were not impressed.

I'm embarrassed for the BBC, that they allowed it to happen. I've only seen the YouTube teaser, and I'm still embarassed for them.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43250 - 01/30/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Contrasting Viewpoint
It does seem Alex that most of the reviews in quality sources rated it 3 or 4 out of 5, but they all seem to use reviewers who were not AR readers. Over the years I've see this with a lot of film adaptations of books - don't let someone who has read it review it!

A good review from a BBC source is going to be unlikely as it was their film!

On Amazon the vast majority of the 100 or so reviews are 5 out of 5, and it seems that reflects the view of the media. Many of them reviewing the film as a stand alone production with no reference to its source material.
posted via 2.28.84.53 user MTD.


message 43249 - 01/30/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Contrasting Viewpoint

Could someone point me toward a commercial news outlet's *negative* review of the recent movie?

I just read the Wiki page on the movie, and the "Critical Reception" section is apallingly one-sided. Enough so to get me angry. Someone --me, I guess, unless someone else would (please) volunteer-- needs to paste in a couple reviews more in line with the general consensus of AR fans such as we here. The reviews need to be able to be cited; i.e. our commentary probably won't do, so someplace reputable(?) like BBC needs to be the source.

Assistance, please?

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43248 - 01/30/17
From: Jock, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
Having recently watched the film, I found this a very fair review.
posted via 178.43.114.252 user Jock.
message 43247 - 01/29/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
Having at long last watched the film I've posted my review.
posted via 2.28.231.170 user MTD.
message 43246 - 01/27/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Ramanujan (was Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots')
Andy:

1. I always wondered as to your general location in England
2. A drone a day - excellent
3. Further to the comments about the books not starting aka Commander Walker and the no go telegram -- imagine the end of GN and Cpn Flint is talking to Nancy -- you are what?
John
posted via 165.91.13.203 user Mcneacail.


message 43245 - 01/26/17
From: Peter Matthews, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
Thank you Alan and Owen and sorry for not repling sooner but I have been away. 8 weeks certainly explains how they managed to get so much done in the holidays!
posted via 212.42.177.213 user Electronpusher.
message 43244 - 01/26/17
From: Andy, subject: Re: Ramanujan (was Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots')
I'm currently using an MPU6050 with an Arduino to monitor changes in angle over time. While fretting over the code, I have also thought that this is exactly Dick's kind of stuff. If 'born' 95 years later, he'd almost certainly have a home-brewed solar-powered GPS unit on Scarab.

Hmm... 'A drone a day keeps the natives away.'
posted via 77.99.248.142 user Andy.


message 43243 - 01/23/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
Ha Ha, I'd forgotten that!
posted via 142.176.10.175 user rlcossar.
message 43242 - 01/23/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
True, DPIO also started at the Nuffield. Denise mentioned that explicitly in her talk.
posted via 141.0.14.219 user awhakim.
message 43241 - 01/23/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
This cartoon reminds me of a compilation of TarBoard postings entitled "Cut off before their Prime" that was published in the TARS journal Mixed Moss back in Winter 2003.

Some of the quotes:

Daddy's first draft "UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN YOU CHILDREN SAIL ALONE IN A SMALL BOAT TO AN UNKNOWN ISLAND. LOVE, DADDY" (John Lambert)
or
"MAYBE NEXT YEAR BUT ONLY UNDER CLOSE SUPERVISION" (Ian Wright)

The Ross Cossar let the action proceed a bit further before bringing matters to a shocking end:
"At that moment something glanced off the saucepan with a loud ping. A long arrow with a green feather, stuck quivering in John's chest."
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43240 - 01/22/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Reeflng, was: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Cool: I learn something new every day. Thank you!

For reference, to reef my gaff-rigged sloop, I take up on the topping lift to carry the weight of the boom, ease the throat halyard and make the tack pendant, ease the peak and make the clew pendant, then make fast the nettles along the boom. Sweat up the halyards and away we go.

From the sounds of it, Swallow is the same as my sloop. Goblin, with her roller-reefing boom, was different, of course. Any other instances of reefing in the books, to use as reference? As often as Knight appears in AR, I'd be interested in what other examples provide.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43239 - 01/22/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Having never sailed, let alone reefed, a lug-rigged boat I can't pass comment. However, when reefing the bermudean rig of a Comet or similar the reefing line raises the clew (providing you remembered to slacken off the kicker), then bring the new tack down to the gooseneck while slackening off the halyard. Fasten the reef points (bungee cords in our case), tighten the halyard, and finally the kicker.
posted via 86.129.192.189 user MartinH.
message 43238 - 01/22/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
This will have been the dramatisation by Denise Deegan for the Nuffield Theatre, Southampton at Christmas 1988. Denise before that had a great success with Daisy Pulls It Off, a spoof play based on girls' school stories of the early 20th century. It ran in the London West End for a long time.

If asked I would have said I saw Swallows and Amazons earlier than 1988, but that date fits in with the period when I had the time and money to go to the theatre regularly. Incidentally I also Daisy Pulls It Off, also at the Nuffield, which I think was before it transferred to the West End.
posted via 86.129.192.189 user MartinH.


message 43237 - 01/22/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
Thank you Alan, that explains a lot!
posted via 95.150.14.143 user MTD.
message 43236 - 01/22/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Unfortunately, neither the 1919 or the 1938 edition have an illustration.

It really is a good book, though he does get one thing "wrong"(?): in describing how to reef, he takes down the clew first, then the tack. Perhaps this reverse order is something peculiar to the traditional English cutter rig, where the main is loose footed and the tack left running so that it can be triced up? Either way, John gets it right in S&A, for Swallow: tack, then clew, then the nettles along the boom.

Alex

posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43235 - 01/22/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Conveniently, I just last night finished reading my copy of Knight (the 1919 edition, as pictured here). He describes how to mouse sisterhooks, but does not provide an illustration.

I think I have a pair up in the the "chandlery" section of my shop. I haven't yet figured out how to post a photo to this forum, but if someone can explain it to me, I'll provide an illustration.

Allan, I'll give fair warning so you can close your eyes.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43234 - 01/22/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
This will have been the dramatisation by Denise Deegan for the Nuffield Theatre, Southampton at Christmas 1988. Denise before that had a great success with Daisy Pulls It Off, a spoof play based on girls' school stories of the early 20th century. It ran in the London West End for a long time.
There was another production of S&A a year or two later at Theatr Clwyd, and then Denise came and gave a delightful talk about it all at the TARS Literary Weekend in 1995. If anyone out there is a TARS member, they can get the "Transcripts of the Third Literary Weekend". I'm not going to quote it here: it runs to 11 pages of A4.
Sadly, though there was tremendous enthusiasm at the talk about another adaptation, nothing ever came of it.
(Incidentally, if you do get the transcripts, you'll find other gems such as Publishing Arthur Ransome by Tony Colwell, who looked after the books at Jonathan Cape's for years.)
posted via 141.0.15.34 user awhakim.
message 43233 - 01/22/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: OED
On that note, if you're not familiar with the web cartoon xkcd, and its author, Randall Monroe, check it out. He also put out a book titled "Thing-Explainer", using only the 1000 most common English words to explain such scientific concepts or creations as the Saturn V rocket, Big Bang, etc. It's quite something. Dick would be more eloquent, explaining science, but it gets the point across.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43232 - 01/22/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
Doesn't that just cover it?

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43231 - 01/22/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
Mike, as Julia owns the original and refers to it as "her favourite" of the First Drafts, I think it is definitely not recent, but I haven't asked her.

Dave

posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43230 - 01/22/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
Thanks Martin, at least us more to go on.
posted via 95.150.14.143 user MTD.
message 43229 - 01/22/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
This is probably the production of SA I attended at Southampton's Nuffield Theatre in the early 80s. I've tried googling for further information but can't find anything.

I would have kept the programme for several years (as you do) but probably threw it out prior to a house move.

From what I remember it was pretty faithful in following the book within the constraints of a two hour theatre performance. The boats were mounted on a revolve and sailing was simulated by them rotating as if on a roundabout. No feathered headdresses just red stocking caps.
posted via 86.129.192.189 user MartinH.


message 43228 - 01/22/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: S & A Stage Production (not Bristol Old Vic)
Re-reading Peter Hunt's 'Approaching Arthur Ransome' he mentions in the preface a stage production of SA in the 1980s, I've tried some Online searches for it with no results.

Does anyone have any information of it?
posted via 95.150.14.143 user MTD.


message 43227 - 01/22/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
Could you imagine? Nobody would know who Ransome was today and film makers would be a total loss for creating children's adventure stories
posted via 184.151.36.61 user rlcossar.
message 43226 - 01/22/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
Dave - thanks for posting my review and for this cartoon, I'm a bit behind reading the latest Private Eye so had yet to see it!
posted via 95.150.14.143 user MTD.
message 43225 - 01/21/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Lovely AR cartoon on ATR
We've just posted a charming AR cartoon, one of the "First Drafts" series. See http://allthingsransome.net/vault/index.html or you can go directly to the cartoon at: http://allthingsransome.net/vault/First%20Drafts%20Arthur%20Ransome.jpg.


posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43224 - 01/21/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: OED
Allegedly one can get by with Basic English (either 850 or about 2000 words depending on the source) but I believe several thousand is more realistic. One of the useful things about English is that while it is awfully difficult to master, it is very easy to grasp enough to make yourself understood; one of the reasons English has become so ubiquitous.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43223 - 01/21/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Mike has given permission for us to post his review on All Things Ransome. See the Literary Pages Reviews section, or the Ransome Readers Recommend section.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43222 - 01/21/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Cringe-worthy Alex, isn't it? He'd used them to attach the jib-sheets, and the flogging sail made them work loose while he was on the fore-deck when the accident happened.

But sorry, I don't have a picture of moused sister-hooks and nor can I find one on the web. For those who really want to know though, you just bring the hooks together and clap a strong seizing (using the word loosely) around the shanks below the eyes.

While "Knight on Sailing" was certainly stated by AR as being used by John, nowhere in that book (as far as I can tell, and I have two editions as well as access to Tim's on-line version) is there any mention of sister-hooks.
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.


message 43221 - 01/21/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: OED
While I enjoy improving my word power and learning more words I can weave into my life, I wonder what is a reasonable minimum number of English words one needs to get by.
posted via 184.151.61.104 user rlcossar.
message 43220 - 01/21/17
From: Hotted up (was: Review of SA&C), subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
We had this discussion only a few months ago.

"Hotted up" was a phrase commonly used by my parents and others I knew of their generation.
posted via 2.31.117.176 user eclrh.


message 43219 - 01/21/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
For those wishing to emulate John and Dick, below is a link to an on-line version on the All Things Ransome site.

ousing and its application to sisterhooks can be found in

CHAPTER XVI - GLOSSARY OF NAUTICAL TERMS

[ Image ]

posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43218 - 01/21/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Mousing the sisterhooks: The answer is, of course, in Sailing (or Small Boat Sailing) by E.F. Knight, that "slim blue volume" that Dick and John are forever referring to.
posted via 81.156.113.224 user Magnus.
message 43217 - 01/21/17
From: Words, subject: OED
How many words are there in the English language?

There is no single sensible answer to this question. It's impossible to count the number of words in a language, because it's so hard to decide what actually counts as a word. Is dog one word, or two (a noun meaning 'a kind of animal', and a verb meaning 'to follow persistently')? If we count it as two, then do we count inflections separately too (e.g. dogs = plural noun, dogs = present tense of the verb). Is dog-tired a word, or just two other words joined together? Is hot dog really two words, since it might also be written as hot-dog or even hotdog?

It's also difficult to decide what counts as 'English'. What about medical and scientific terms? Latin words used in law, French words used in cooking, German words used in academic writing, Japanese words used in martial arts? Do you count Scots dialect? Teenage slang? Abbreviations?

The Second Edition of the 20-volume Oxford English Dictionary contains full entries for 171,476 words in current use, and 47,156 obsolete words. To this may be added around 9,500 derivative words included as subentries. Over half of these words are nouns, about a quarter adjectives, and about a seventh verbs; the rest is made up of exclamations, conjunctions, prepositions, suffixes, etc. And these figures don't take account of entries with senses for different word classes (such as noun and adjective).

This suggests that there are, at the very least, a quarter of a million distinct English words, excluding inflections, and words from technical and regional vocabulary not covered by the OED, or words not yet added to the published dictionary, of which perhaps 20 per cent are no longer in current use. If distinct senses were counted, the total would probably approach three quarters of a million.

Thus we can only wonder at the great words we learned from AR, I still get chipped for using AR expressions and being asked -- where did that come from and I just look and them and think Pudding Faces.
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43216 - 01/21/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
SAD - teaches you one thing, a good leader is not a bad thing, a bad egg should be drowned at birth or at least sent down.

Academe has the exact opposite of a ship and it is a vey poor thing indeed
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43215 - 01/21/17
From: Robert, subject: Re: Ramanujan (was Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots')
I have found that most academic people have very little interest outside their immediate office. I do an awful lot of very fine work with accelerometers, and at the moment we have one on a bridge in London, I have spent the last two months getting it to work on a Linux box, using MONO so that we had a more stable platform than WINDOWS and cheaper. I got it running on NUC, which is expensive and I just got it running on an English PI 2. We cannot use the USB driver written for windows so we go through the ethernet. Fair amount of code writing, but fun. Dick would have had a PI 2 or 3 on his summer hols.

During this process I cam across Ramanujan paper on Highly Composite Numbers, the sort of Bletchley Park cross Dick stuff you could really grow to love, although as Hardy said it was of little relevance, one does not do math or read AR for relevance one does it for fun.

I read the paper and was struck by the idea at the beginning of how he would count the prime components, I do not have anything like the skills that man had, but when I saw the answer I went damn that is simple. I then thought I could code it and check the answers, the paper notes that using a pencil and paper in 1915 Ramanujan missed only 2 of the highly composite numbers, literally numbers in the thousands and tens of thousands. One must ask if Ramanujan had been alive in 1941 would he have been at Bletchley and would he have solved those problems faster.

During this time of writing I did not have use the unmentionable device once, but I wish Ed and I could visit WI together and like little boys take a swim in the lake.

Now where is my book on plumbing.

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43214 - 01/21/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'

...nearly dragged overboard by one of a pair of sister-hooks caught in the corner of his eye...


EEE! OOO! AH! Please don't talk about that ever again. It curls my toes.

Even if Allan is nuturing his sense of mystery, you need to find a photo of sisterhooks that have been properly moused, Mike.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43213 - 01/21/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'

"Hotted up" is unusual? Really? Daily phrase, here.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43212 - 01/21/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Aw, shucks.

Thanks, Dave. :)
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.


message 43211 - 01/21/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
My daughter and I tend to use "hotted up", but that might be because we are S&A readers
posted via 86.129.192.189 user MartinH.
message 43210 - 01/20/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
In his 1869 book Down Channel, R T McMullen recounts how he was nearly dragged overboard by one of a pair of sister-hooks caught in the corner of his eye. That was how he learned he always needed to mouse them....

Out of deference to your susceptibilities, Allan, I won't enlarge on sister-hooks any further here. However, anyone interested in seeing what they look like can click on the link for a picture.

As far as I can make out, sister-hooks were not in fact used on either Amazon or Swallow, and there's only that one mention of them anywhere in the books.

posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43209 - 01/20/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Oh no, we still hot things up here. (Or else we zap them....)
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.
message 43208 - 01/20/17
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
When I first read Ransome, at age 10-11, I was able to work out from context what most of the strange words meant

However, I am resolved never to spoil the mystery by ever learning what "mouse your sisterhooks" means (although it's apparently important.)
posted via 101.178.163.206 user Allan_Lang.


message 43207 - 01/20/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
I always stop reading over the phrase "hotted up". Is that still used? I always Heat things up.

posted via 184.151.61.104 user rlcossar.
message 43206 - 01/20/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
As an American, I cannot judge if certain expressions are still used in the British version of English, but there is one that I feel is possibly becoming a bit out of date (my guess), and that is, "I say>"

There are 469 times that expression is used in the Ransome 12. I do not know if that is still in current usage, or is this just a sample of the 1930's, or is that today still in popular usage.

In my reading of these books, the "I say" expression was very much a standout as being not the way I would say things. Then there was the spellings that my American spell checker kept harassing me about as I typed these texts into my computer. Another surprise of language usage differences came early in S&A as Roger ran up to the others while waving the telegram, and John questions him, saying, "DESPATCHES?" I never would have said that, and I would have spelled it as "DIS..." But this was part of the fun, the mystery, the joy of deciphering these expressions as being different from what I was used to. It was an Education, one that introduced me to some terms a sailor would know, but that I had to learn about, such as my feeling of success when I finally understood what the "Painter" was, that it had nothing to do with smearing stuff on the side of a house. A "Sheet" is not necessarily just what one spreads on a bed. A "Traveler" has nothing to do with someone on vacation. Then the truly foreign words of "pintle and gudgeon" both of which upset my American Spell checker. Reading Ransome has been an educational pleasure, showing me new places, new ideas, and a play world of fantasy that was made out to be so real He triggered my interest in signalling, a learned skill that gave me a leadership position in my group of Boy Scouts. For all he brought into my life, I am truly grateful.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43205 - 01/20/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Sorry, my link takes you to the middle of the discussion!
posted via 2.29.97.179 user MTD.
message 43204 - 01/20/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
This was discussed at some length over the last couple of years (including by myself) on the blog of an Australian author Michelle Cooper
posted via 2.29.97.179 user MTD.
message 43203 - 01/20/17
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
"_Books reflect the period they are written, not a much later era with different values._"

Alan Hakim, Mike Field, David Bamford: 100% yes. If something in the books makes you uncomfortable, learn from it and carry on.

Alex
posted via 73.221.221.14 user Pitsligo.


message 43202 - 01/20/17
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
I concur with Mike fully, as I usually do. That's why we're such good mates.
David
posted via 137.147.12.219 user David.
message 43201 - 01/20/17
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
"Books reflect the period they are written, not a much later era with different values."

Exactly. That's why some words used by, inter alia, AR in the 1930s, words that are no longer acceptable in public speech, should nevertheless remain in the texts.

Some people in the past have thought that bowdlerised versions of AR should be published to suit today's tastes and preferences. This was discussed here a short while ago, with some bowdlerised examples produced to show how ridiculous the whole idea really is.

The books are the books. If you don't like parts of them, don't alter them, just don't read them. [Steps down off soap-box]
posted via 124.171.138.86 user mikefield.


message 43200 - 01/19/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Titty did have those somewhat psychological moments. There was her imagination that had her pretending the Man Friday visit in S&A, and the melting in the fire of the GA wax doll that hinted at certain Religious procedures not normally associated with her normal life to the point she was sincerely worried that maybe she had truly harmed the GA. The "let's pretend" play world was creeping into her real world with not really accepting the difference of those two sets of rules. This was different from her "Man Friday" moment which she kept in the "let's pretend" mode in her mind. But that GA doll really bothered her. She was considered by the others, especially Susan, as not to be always believed, that she was apt to let her imagination run away with her, as when she kept insisting she heard the thieves on Cormorant Island bury the treasure. But to give credit when truly earned, she did have the sense to grab the AMAZON and "steal" it to win the "war." And as for her fear of the divining rod trauma, she did have the courage, once she was alone, to pick it up and have another go with it again, and this time to have some serious positive results.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43199 - 01/18/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Ramanujan (was Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots')
Even Srinivasa Iyengar Ramanujan had problems with lecturers

He also failed to get recognition from the mathematicians he contracted in England before he hit on Hardy. I don't think their identities have ever been published.
posted via 2.31.117.176 user eclrh.


message 43198 - 01/18/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
I have just finished reading the book, and my reaction in summary is that it won't get a permanent place on my Ransome bookshelf. The exposition of the plot of each book is good, but I know them already. Far worse is his constant harping on Empire themes. Books reflect the period they are written, not a much later era with different values. They came out when I was young, and the world of British children was as he described, though we all longed to have adventures like the S&As.
As for the analysis of the dowsing, I agree with Peter. It is a most memorable episode, but has never struck me as anything other than a true portrayal of a young girl being distressed by finding she had an unexpected gift outside her control.
I went on a dowsing course a few years ago, totally sceptical. It works. I can't explain it, and it certainly wasn't stressful, but the dowsing rods found what I was looking for, every time.
posted via 141.0.14.73 user awhakim.
message 43197 - 01/18/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Thanks for your comments, and I agree with yours.

The over analysis of Titty and dowsing bothered me as well, especially as I am able to dowse and fully understand the stress it can cause that AR describes very well.
posted via 2.29.97.179 user MTD.


message 43196 - 01/18/17
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
I think Mike’s critique of ‘Swallows, Amazons and Coots’ is pretty much spot-on. The author, Julian Lovelock, deserves great credit for writing a book on AR, doing an obvious huge amount of work, and then succeeding in getting it published. I also agree that some of the Amazon comments are harsh. However, John Nichols is right to mention academic reviews, because I feel that Julian Lovelock has fallen prey to the modern ‘contextual’ approach to literary criticism, in which you don’t just analyse the text, but you also consider the historical, political, social and psychological etc. influences on the author concerned. That may be appropriate with regard to some authors, but not Ransome, in my view. AR was an experienced, trained journalist, who wrote down what he saw and what he heard and little else. His approach to children’s fiction was the same – what did they do, what did they see, what did they eat. There was only one very real ‘activity’ which he didn't mention, and we all know what that was. He used his imagination to construct adventures for the children based on reality in a known landscape. OK, there are echoes of ‘Empire’ in Commander Walker’s naval missions but these are very much in the background.

Julian Lovelock has also deconstructed the Titty dowsing episode, and describes it as “more than a hint of the beginnings of Titty’s sexual awareness”. Titty was about ten in ‘Pigeon Post’ and that statement makes me uneasy. I feel it was unwise to include it. It strikes me that Titty’s distress was simply that of a child discovering that she had an irrational ‘gift’, i.e. water divining, but not feeling able to cope with it.

posted via 86.182.41.12 user Peter_H.


message 43195 - 01/18/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
If you wish to see harsh reviews, one only needs to look at academic reviews of dissertations, particularly if the reviewer does not like the supervisor, the student gets it in the head for something that occurred 30 years ago in a class. Even Srinivasa Iyengar Ramanujan had problems with lecturers. Of course the fact that he could see math most people can only dream about did not help. No one likes a Roger all of the time.

posted via 165.91.13.149 user Mcneacail.
message 43194 - 01/17/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Thanks Adam, You sum up what I felt on my first reading, but it deserved more (but judging by the few reviews on Amazon others felt the same, one was particular harsh.)
posted via 2.29.97.179 user MTD.
message 43193 - 01/17/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
Very interesting review, Mike. I think that you have reflected some of my misgivings about the book. It is not that it is in any way bad, but it could have been better in some ways.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43192 - 01/17/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
To borrow badly and English "bally good", although I would give it the 12 year's meaning not the 60 year old's meaning
posted via 165.91.13.149 user Mcneacail.
message 43191 - 01/17/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Review of 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'
I have posted a revised version of my Amazon.co.uk review of Julian Lovelock's book on my blog.
posted via 2.29.97.179 user MTD.
message 43190 - 01/14/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Secret Water New Road
I've posted a photo of the new road name sign in the 'Town'.
posted via 95.149.55.159 user MTD.
message 43189 - 01/12/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Leegal tickling (was Victorious Moments)
Generally tickling or guddling is illegal in public waters. I believe that in private waters it is up to the owner whether or not to permit it.

The rationale seems to be to protect the sport of angling and the rights of fishing licence ownsers rather than for any fish protection reasons.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43188 - 01/12/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Leegal tickling (was Victorious Moments)
I read this in two different places, tickling for fish is illegal in all waters in the UK. I could be wrong, but it appeared to be pretty specific.
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 43187 - 01/11/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Leegal tickling (was Victorious Moments)
I have a friend in Nuuk Greenland and he was tickling trout last summer but wished he had claws like the bears to grab onto the fish better.
posted via 184.151.63.129 user rlcossar.
message 43186 - 01/11/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Leegal tickling (was Victorious Moments)
When did it become illegal, why would anyone say this is illegal -- man against fish -- is there no fun anymore.

I think what's illegal is not ticling as a method of fishing, but the fact that the fishing rights on the river belong to somebody else.

Yes, taking fish from water belonging to someone else is poaching.
posted via 86.129.192.189 user MartinH.


message 43185 - 01/11/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Leegal tickling (was Victorious Moments)
Oops! Another mis-spelling of "tickling", and one in "legal" in the title as well!
posted via 2.31.117.176 user eclrh.
message 43184 - 01/11/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Leegal tickling (was Victorious Moments)
When did it become illegal, why would anyone say this is illegal -- man against fish -- is there no fun anymore.

I think what's illegal is not ticling as a method of fishing, but the fact that the fishing rights on the river belong to somebody else.

posted via 2.31.117.176 user eclrh.


message 43183 - 01/10/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Passenger & Spelling?
Like Robinson Crusoe and the SFR, the stranded guy is a mechanical engineer, so he has some skills, but not the "correct and complete skill set." He finally decides after a year alone to "wake up a girl." Adds to the plot, think 39 Steps girl added.

So we have an accident, is WS, we have the anchor lost. We have two, although 3 for a short while, people alone, and drifting through space, trying to work out how to manage, think WS and John and Susan getting to sea and safety. Did not PD say something about shores being dangerous?

There is the events to be dealt with, the kitten, being run down and one sees the same minor happenings in the Hollywood movie. They overcome adversity.

The ends are similar, everyone is safe and LHEA - think Cinderella.

So all the way through the movie, I had a good idea of the next stage as it was so close to WS. Instead of saving a drowning kitty, she saves the lost spaceman, etc...

I was just a bit intrigued as to why the lost couple did not have a couple of children and wake a few more up to make a village. Sensible thing to so and make for a sequel.

The interesting ethical issues in both are evident, do you leave an untrained or missing crew and wander off, in WS the Captain should never have left the boat - but that is just a personal opinion.

Interesting movie.

I purchased Swallows and Amazons DVD - had to get it from the UK Amazon, about 15 USD including postage.

John


posted via 128.194.94.53 user Mcneacail.


message 43182 - 01/10/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Passenger & Spelling?
My apologies, yes the Movie Passengers. My computer is crashing a bit at the moment so I will keep these brief.

In Passengers, the basic story is the old Swiss Family Robinson, with the castaways on a 100 year voyage to a new world. It is all automated and everyone is in hibernation. The ship runs into a meteor storm and a large one makes it through the "magnetic/electric" shield protecting the ship and damages one of the reactors. The ship is almost self healing, but not quite. In the energy blackout - a Robinson Crusoe person is woken up and is then stranded on the ship alone except for a robotic bar man, (best actor in the group by the way).

posted via 128.194.94.53 user Mcneacail.


message 43181 - 01/10/17
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Passenger & Spelling?
I assumed that "Passenger" was an allusion to the recent movie, "Passengers" about finding oneself the only person awake on a interstellar ship.

posted via 108.16.161.209 user Didymus.
message 43180 - 01/10/17
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Passenger & Spelling?
Thank you for this, Adam. I thought it was just me who was totally baffled.

May I join the club?
Anything to do with the "Spelling" thread?
"Tickling" is all very well, but cries out for context too.
posted via 90.255.41.69 user PeterC.


message 43179 - 01/10/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Cinema trips
Cinema trips are crazy prices these days. I advise all UK patrons to pay for Cineworld tickets using Tesco tokens (I build up the points for free) and then to buy popcorn, sweets and drinks from the supermarket before you go. No-one has ever raised an eyebrow at me lugging a rucksack along with me.

We often decant the purchases into a packet/container that makes less of a racket.

My friend related a conversation he recently had when he took his 7 year old to the cinema...

Employee: "There's your tickets, do you want to buy any popcorn?"
Little boy: "No, we've bought our own."
Parent: [Burns with shame]
Employee: [Whispers] "Good idea. I would!"
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43178 - 01/10/17
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Passenger
Thank you for this, Adam. I thought it was just me who was totally baffled.
posted via 92.18.216.117 user Mike_Jones.
message 43177 - 01/10/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Passenger
John,
I have no idea what you are posting about. Could you please explain.
Thanks
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43176 - 01/09/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Special Branch
Coleman also contends that Special Branch of equivalent have been tapping his phone for years. He seems to dislike the EU and the Inland Revenue ( a lot).

Funny that two Guardian writers had such problems.


posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43175 - 01/09/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Spelling
Tickling
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 43174 - 01/09/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Victorious Moments
AR has lots of interesting knowledge tucked into his books.

I was reading Vernon Coleman's Doctor books, and Thumper is arrested by the Water Bailiff for ticking fish in Devon.

When did it become illegal, why would anyone say this is illegal -- man against fish -- is there no fun anymore.

Interestingly Coleman mentions Buchan, but not AR. No real kids in his books.

He is not as good as AR - funny but not AR's hidden humour, nor his writing skills although they both wrote for the Guardian.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43173 - 01/09/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Passenger - spelling
contend
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 43172 - 01/09/17
From: John Nichols, subject: Passenger
I content that Passenger is just a poor man's WDMTGTS with less excitement and adventure.
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 43171 - 01/09/17
From: Ethics, subject: Re: AR and Ethics
Dear Dave:

We have to take the youngest child and then one of the friends so they are balanced so to speak. 4 tickets is about 20 bucks then popcorn, four drinks, and 2 candy make about 29.50, then the running around and petrol let us call it 50 bucks.
I took them all to see Rogue One (only 3) and it was 40.
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43169 - 01/08/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: AR and Ethics
Certainly there is nothing wrong with it! I paid my daughter in sherbet lemons to read S&A and then she liked it, and read two others. Hurrah!

My elder daughters certainly need pushing to read the books that I decide are good for them. They read for at least an hour every day, of their own choice, but they point blank refuse to let me suggest a title. Every so often I put my foot down, they begrudgingly read an award-winner, and later tell me they loved it.
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43168 - 01/08/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: Victorious Moments
Last evening I read the chapter The Race from Swallowdale to my wife. It has so much sailing knowledge tucked into the pages and I know learned as a young kid reading this very chapter.

It is also a chapter of victory where John managed a victory for his crew knowing his boat well and the routes he was willing to choose.
posted via 184.151.63.129 user rlcossar.


message 43167 - 01/08/17
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Victorious Moments
When you are watching a sporting event and the team you are pulling for scores, you feel like jumping up thrusting both arms up in the air and shouting, a very vivid display of emotion.

There are moments in these Ransome stories that seemed to be a Grand Event that made me want to stand up and cheer with arms raised in celebration.

Here are but a few of those moments; there are others.

In Pigeon Post, Roger comes to the realization that the piece of quartz he had just hammered loose from the wall had a glint of metal. He knew that he had found what they had all been looking for. He had really done it.

In We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea, there were so many moments of stress, of real fear of very real dangers. It was no made up child's game they were playing, like the Amazons pretending to be pirates. This was serious business, a struggle to remain alive. Things began looking up when the Pilot came on board, but a lot of questions as to how to make the next move, and how to pay for the Pilot and the telegram, different kinds of stress, but serious concerns. Then John happened to look up to that steamer next to them and suddenly recognized DADDY. Then, he was gone. So near, yet another failure. Then came that wondrous moment of Victory, as they heard the sound of a motorboat coming up behind them, and suddenly, they saw...DADDY. The shift in emotion was fantastic. Susan had to hide back in the cabin to manage her tears, but tears of relief, not of fear. The emotions of that moment completely turned around.

In Peter Duck, of course the moment of Victory was after the stress of the storm, the loss of their water supply, only to suddenly discover the treasure they had come so far to find. This emotional joy was somewhat restrained when they found that it was not gold picecs of eight which any respectable Pirate would have buried, but some pearls, some of questionable value. But they had found what they had come looking for.

Winter Holiday had that moment of emotional cheering on my part because it involved communication via code, that is, Morse Code. Nancy was recovering from her illness and was walking about to get her legs back in working order again. There was some stress as to the missing D's with even the Natives getting stirred up in the search for those missing two. But Nancy happened to look far away, to the north, and saw another light, below those of the village beyond, but a light that seemed to be blinking. She looked again, and realized that was CODE. She spelled out the letters, "NP" and realized what it meant, that the D's were at the North Pole.

This last Victory Moment was of special importance to me because it was Winter Holiday that triggered my desire to become familiar with CODE, Morse and Semaphore. My Ransome friends were actually using that. I learned it, and suggested to my Boy Scout Troup that we all should learn signalling. The Scoutmaster suggested that I teach my friends. For the nerd kid who was always the last chosen for the team, it suddenly put me into a leadership position among my peers. Those guys seemed to take to this project rather well. We did quite a bit of practicing from one end of a field to another. It was a social victory for me.

When ever signalling was used by my Ransome friends, it quickly got my attention, as in PP, John and Roger signalling with flashing torch back to the base camp as the two boys prepared to spend the night in the gulch, keeping watch. In Winter Holiday, there was that flurry of semaphore with Nancy (face like a pumpkin) in her window, with that delightful moment of realization as to what "SMT" meant. (Shiver my Timbers). Another moment that could have been a rather exciting victory of the art of signalling was mentioned in Swallowdale, but they never actually tried to get the idea to really work, and that was from the top of the Lookout Rock, they could see Holly Howe and mentioned the possibility of signalling to Mom back there from that rock, but they never made that effort. I always regretted that failure as it would have been quite a success to communicate across such a distance. This event was of course before Winter Holiday, so signalling at that time was not all that important to them.

Signalling was just another one of those features that made reading Ransome such an educational process. When I got my sailboat, I rigged it and sailed it having read nothing other than Ransome as to "how to" make it work, and did quite well. In the Scouts, I could build a campfire and hang a pot over the flame, because I had seen Susan do it and I had learned from her. It has been a learning experience to have those books a part of my growing up, and still a constant companion on into my retirement years. These books are among my prize possessions.

Thanks, AR... Ya dun Good...

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA ( kisered@aol.com )
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.



message 43164 - 01/08/17
From: Dave, subject: Re: AR and Ethics
When is a bribe a reward? When are either an agreed payment for say mowing the lawn, which might or might not be a regular task? Is it strictly according to whether the activity is fun? And what if it is perceived as fun the the "briber" but not fun by the "bribee"?
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43163 - 01/08/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Cost of movies was Re: AR and Ethics
Ah, of course. I'd forgotten the snacks.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 43160 - 01/08/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Cost of movies was Re: AR and Ethics
Don't forget the cost of overpriced drinks and popcorn by the bucket, which is what my children wanted.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43159 - 01/07/17
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: AR and Ethics
John, does it really cost $50 to take an adult and a child to a movie where you are in Texas? Or are you including other family members?

Here (far Northern California) a daily matinee costs about $15 for two adults.

posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43158 - 01/06/17
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: AR and Ethics
If you want a serious answer then no its not, the fact you saved money by not taking her to see a film is of no relevance. Its interesting that she rejected going to see the film in favour of reading the book, or was she unaware of the chance to see a film?

Less serious answer, if it gets her reading any AR then why not? (Good choice to start with I have to say as its my favourite!)
posted via 2.28.82.117 user MTD.


message 43157 - 01/06/17
From: Ross, subject: Re: AR and Ethics
I'm not seeing anything unethical about this (though I would hope we don't need to pay people to do fun things). Some people get paid to watch movies. At work I get paid to read certain documents.
posted via 184.151.63.129 user rlcossar.
message 43156 - 01/06/17
From: John Nichols, subject: AR and Ethics
Dear Gurus:

Over Christmas I offered my 11 year old daughter 10 dollars to read Winter Holiday.

My wife told her that was bribery and she could not accept the money.

It costs me 50 to take her to the flicks, it saved me 40 -- is this ethical

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 43155 - 01/05/17
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
I can certainly confirm Alan’s thoughts on the summer school term dates. Many school terms ended on the penultimate Tuesday or Thursday in July. Public schools usually took external exams set by Oxford or Cambridge boards. In the 1920/30s these took place from late June until the 3rd weeks in July.
Between 1919 and 1951, these exams were for School Certificate at age 16 and Higher School Certificate at age 18. To matriculate meaning to be entered on a University’s register, meant passing 6 subjects simultaneously at SC level including English, Mathematics and Science. This entry requirement could vary but generally required a minimum of 5 subjects including any credits or distinctions.
These summer term end dates continued up until the 1980’s when external exam dates changed. After 1951, matriculation effectively disappeared and exams were replaced by O levels (later GCSE’s) and A levels.
Summer holidays ended after 8 weeks, although State schools only had 6 weeks. The difference was attributed to Public Schools working/playing sports on Saturdays.

posted via 87.113.133.203 user OwenRoberts.
message 43154 - 01/05/17
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: Character ages
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
In the 1940s (and therefore probably the 1930s; not much changed in this area during the war) the summer term at public schools ended about the third week of July, and the autumn term started about September 20th. i.e after 8 weeks holiday.
State schools broke up a little later, but restarted much earlier in September.

In Reply to: Re: Character ages (was: schools) posted by Magnus Smith on January 04, 2017 at 09:23:35:

Roger Wardale quotes a list of ages made by AR for his own reference when writing PM, which is set in "first fortnight of summer hols 1933". Chronologically it is 3 years after SA.
"R 10, T 12, S 14, J 15, D 13, D 12, N 15, P 14" Roger assumes the first 'D' is Dorothea.

WR to AR, this (S 14, J 15) not possible

S&A takes place on August. John is flush because he has birthday money from "just before they came to the lake" (June-July?)

But later Susan states that her birthday is on New Years Day

So if John is Twelve, Susan is Ten & five-eights.

posted via 101.178.163.14 user Allan_Lang.


message 43153 - 01/05/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Character ages
Roger Wardale quotes a list of ages made by AR for his own reference when writing PM, which is set in "first fortnight of summer hols 1933". Chronologically it is 3 years after SA.
"R 10, T 12, S 14, J 15, D 13, D 12, N 15, P 14" Roger assumes the first 'D' is Dorothea.
posted via 141.0.14.145 user awhakim.
message 43152 - 01/05/17
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
In the 1940s (and therefore probably the 1930s; not much changed in this area during the war) the summer term at public schools ended about the third week of July, and the autumn term started about September 20th. i.e after 8 weeks holiday.
State schools broke up a little later, but restarted much earlier in September.
posted via 141.0.14.145 user awhakim.
message 43151 - 01/05/17
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
Having said on the earlier thread that my grandson and I had enjoyed it in the cinema as an adventure film for children, I watched it with him again on DVD at Christmas.

He enjoyed it again, but with the SA dodecateuch looking down on me from the bookshelf with half-a-dozen other AR related volumes, I found it a pretty miserable experience, especially the treatment of the Blacketts.

The scenes left out of the final cut mostly deserved to be, in particular ones with CF holding forth about German rearmament, but the one of the two mothers together was not without merit, although of course it is not in the book.
posted via 88.110.73.12 user Mike_Jones.


message 43150 - 01/05/17
From: Peter Matthews, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
Robert says that "Schools have been covered a fair number of times"
Sorry if I am covering old ground but I am curious as to what the normal dates for the end of term at the start of the summer holidays and the start back at school at the end, for boarding schools in the early 1930's
posted via 212.42.177.213 user Electronpusher.
message 43149 - 01/04/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Character ages (was: schools)
Regarding 'hoofs' I think all bets are off. My teenage daughters are size 6 and there's a lad in their class with size 12s already. Feet don't always have to tally with height or age, and during childhood they can grow at a rate that seems utterly independent of all other factors.

My youngest has had the same size hoofs for two or three years at Primary school, which has saved me a fortune in Clarks. Her elder siblings cost me a heck of a lot more.

So in this one area, at least, I am prepared to say that AR made no error.
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43148 - 01/04/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Donald Campbell anniversary
Today, 4 Jan, is the 50th anniversary of the death of Donald Campbell while attempting the world water speed record on Coniston in Bluebird. At the suggestion of a listener, Radio 3 marked the occasion by playing Stanford's The Blue Bird (at the time of the start of his first run).
posted via 2.31.117.176 user eclrh.
message 43147 - 01/04/17
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Some thoughts on schools)
I think that during the 1930s schools had much more freedom in the subjects they did, or did not, teach.

My mother went to what I believe was a fairly good private school, which taught no science until about age 14 when biology was introduced. As far as I could gather there were no chemistry or physics lessons as such.

If Dick showed an early interest in sciences could he have gone to school that had a strong scientific leaning?

I too have always assumed that John was a "Pubs" entry to Dartmouth. The book "Dartmouth" by Evan Davies and Eric Grove, states:
The regulations between the wars meant that the entrance exam could only be taken once, between the ages of 13 years 4 months and 13 years 8 months."
The age on entry is not given, though I suspect successful applicants started the next term. (Dartmouth operated a term system until May 1937) This would probably have John entering Dartmouth as a Cadet for the summer term before PP, though conceivably it might be the September entry.


posted via 86.129.192.189 user MartinH.


message 43146 - 01/03/17
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Some thoughts on schools)
Even in the 1930’s some public schools had an entry age of eleven. The school I attended did so and someone else kindly confirmed that Shrewsbury did so in the 1930’s.
Not so sure about Chemistry, I did start at prep school at 9 years old. Also my father ran his own chemical laboratory at a major utility so I had plenty of background. When I first read WH, at age of 10, I did not think that chemical analysis was unusual. However my public school had brand new chemical laboratories, replacing those demolished by a V1 in WW2, and may well have been enthusiastic about everyone having a good grounding in Science. However many schools left Science until later.
This does raise the age old question – where did they go to school? We know that Titty and Roger had a long railway journey that day according to Dorothea. As the D’s lived in London this could mean beyond London. It is quite possible that Titty and Roger went to a co-educational preparatory school in the south maybe near one of the main naval bases of Chatham or Portsmouth (Plymouth would probably be too far for a day’s travel, as the journey would be about 5 hours to Paddington) and then to travel through London to catch a train at Euston. It is probable that they would have been booked on a through train from Euston to Rio (Windermere) so that they would not have to change during the journey, possibly the “Lakes Express” which started to split into portions at Strickland Junction (Oxenholme).
We know John and Susan’s schools were not so far and they had been together on the previous train when they released the first pigeon. This could indicate that they had met on the way to Strickland Junction perhaps at Rugby or Crewe. They may also have changed at Strickland Junction as there were not many through trains to Rio.
Possibly Susan went to the Royal Naval School for the daughters of officers at Haslemere in Surrey. This school still exists as the Royal School with the Princess Royal as its President.
The only school were can be sure that John did not attend was Rugby (AR’s old school) otherwise he would have surely recognised Jim Brading in WD – who was educated there. He was probably not at Dartmouth otherwise is very unlikely that he could be present for all the Swallows adventures. More likely he was at a public school intending to be a “Special Entry” naval cadet at age 18. These special entry cadets formed half the officers in the Royal Navy and were called “Pubs” from their public school or grammar school background whilst those who had come through Dartmouth were named “Darts”.
Most schools, especially boarding schools) were concerned about pupils bringing back contagious diseases. We must remember that there were no antibiotics available in the 1930’s to control infections. Even in the 1950’s, I had to receive smallpox & diphtheria boosters before I was allowed to go to public school. Once at school everyone had to receive Salk polio jabs when these became available.

posted via 87.113.133.203 user OwenRoberts.
message 43145 - 01/03/17
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: The Blacketts school (& Dick)
On relative ages John is generally taken as older than Susan; he was based on Taqui the eldest Altounyan child according to Hugh Brogan, as Roger could not be the only boy in S&A. And is Molly Blackett older than Captain Flint? Not stated definitely re John or Molly that I can recall.

I have assumed that Molly was older than Jim because her memories of the Great Frost of the 1890s seem better remembered and more "adult"
posted via 103.232.208.252 user Allan_Lang.


message 43144 - 01/03/17
From: Robert Hill, subject: Character ages (was: schools)
It's in PM, not PP, that we read of Dick joining the train at Crewe. That's a year and a half after WH, so he could easily be old enough to be at public school in PM despite the evidence on his young age in WH.

However I think we have to face up to the fact that the evidence on characters' ages and sizes is not entrely consistent. For example in PM Dot has the same size "hoofs" as Peggy, whereas in S&A Peggy is the same size as John.

In PM, Dick has done qualitative analysis in chemistry at school, which I imagine would not be in a School Certificate course (the then equivalent of the later O levels/GCSE), so I guess that suggests an age of 16+.
posted via 2.31.117.176 user eclrh.


message 43143 - 01/03/17
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: The Blacketts school (& Dick)
When the D’s are "signalling to Mars" (WH3) and initially get no reply, Dick says "Do it again" which Dorothea did: ''In matters like these, though she was the elder of the two, she always felt that Dick knew best.'' Of course, if Dick had been older than her, Dot would not have said "she did not think that Peggy could have been much older than herself" as if Dick was the elder he would have been about the same age as Peggy.

On relative ages John is generally taken as older than Susan; he was based on Taqui the eldest Altounyan child according to Hugh Brogan, as Roger could not be the only boy in S&A. And is Molly Blackett older than Captain Flint? Not stated definitely re John or Molly that I can recall.


posted via 203.96.143.237 user hugo.


message 43142 - 01/02/17
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: The Blacketts school (& Dick)
I am disappointed I cannot immediately place my finger on the place which tells us that Dot is older than Dick.

This is all I can find, and it makes it clear that the D's are both "youngsters", but not which of them is the eldest...

WH:
Close behind her came the four whom Dorothea put down in her mind as the elders, though she did not think that Peggy could be very much older than she was herself. She could not help hearing what they were talking about.


posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43141 - 01/02/17
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: The Blacketts school (& Dick)
Re Dick: In Coot Club (a year later than WH) Dorothea says that both of them can swim and Dick got ''first prize at school for men under twelve''

Actually CC is only the Easter after WH

By WH, Susan is just 12. Dorothea probably a year younger, so Dick could be only 10.
posted via 101.178.163.14 user Allan_Lang.


message 43140 - 01/02/17
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: The Blacketts school (& Dick)
Re Dick: In Coot Club (a year later than WH) Dorothea says that both of them can swim and Dick got ''first prize at school for men under twelve''; Dick says ''Boys'', but everyone had understood (CC9). Dot recalls in Winter Holiday “the day when Dick succeeded in making sulphuretted hudrogen, and unluckily stumbled by the door and sent his whole apparatus flying into the spare room where Mr Jenkyns was to sleep”.

Hugh Brogan says somewhere that Dick reflects Arthur’s scientific experience (although AR dropped out of studying chemistry at Yorkshire College) and that Arthur and a friend had trouble disposing of some nitroglycerine they made.

posted via 203.96.143.237 user hugo.


message 43139 - 01/01/17
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
We know that Dick and Dorothea were the children of academics, and I think that it is reasonable to assume that they would have picked up a fair bit of elementary science just from conversations at home. They could scarcely avoid it. My father was toolmaker, and I picked up a lot of engineering lore quite casually. From my mother I inherited a pretty fair artistic ability, but that was more genetic than environmental.
posted via 120.144.9.178 user David.
message 43138 - 01/01/17
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
If Dick was only ten or eleven in Winter holiday, as I think I have seen it written somewhere, then he would not be at a public school for another one or two years after the summer of Pigeon Post. Boys used to go to public schools aged about thirteen at least. He could have been at a boarding prep school associated with a public school or just in reasonable proximity to one.

Mind you he seems pretty advanced for ten or eleven or even twelve in Pigeon Post. I certainly wasn't taught any chemistry until I was thirteen.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43137 - 12/31/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
Schools have been discussed a fair number of times. Do we have some new members in this discussion? If so, welcome.

In chapter 1 of PM (pp. 9-10 in the Cape hardback) it is stated that, before leaving on her cruise, Mrs Blackett visited Nancy and Peggy at their school. So they were at a boarding school and both at the same one.

From the first paragraph of chapter 2 of the same book we know that Dorothea was seen off by her mother at Euston station, London, whereas Dick joined the train at Crewe. There has been speculation that he was at Shrewsbury public school.
posted via 2.31.187.161 user eclrh.


message 43136 - 12/31/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
But wouldn't day schools be equally anxious not to have "whole lot of people bursting out with spots all over, or faces like pumpkins, or turning red like lobsters or green and yellow with any kind of plague."?
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 43135 - 12/31/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
I had assumed from the three schools' quarantine rules in WH that they all went to boarding school.
posted via 88.110.86.134 user Mike_Jones.
message 43134 - 12/31/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
I had assumed from the three schools' quarantine rules in WH that they all went to boarding school.
posted via 88.110.86.134 user Mike_Jones.
message 43133 - 12/31/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
I can't remember anything specific, but have always considered they boarded at a comparatively local school; say in Westmoreland, Cumberland or Lancashire. For some reason I have the possibility in mind that they may have been weekly boarders.
posted via 86.179.135.235 user MartinH.
message 43132 - 12/30/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: The Blacketts school
Good question, the Swallows went to boarding schools judging by the odd reference in the books, and the Ds near to their father's university.
posted via 2.29.89.70 user MTD.
message 43131 - 12/30/16
From: Ross, subject: The Blacketts school
Where did the Amazons got school. I always thought it was local but in Swallowdale Nancy suggests that the GA is leaving and that they might not even see her next year if she arrives in term time,
posted via 184.151.61.2 user rlcossar.
message 43130 - 12/30/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
Well one day I'll get to give it a chance and maybe I'll be disappointed too, but until then I'm going to believe that it can't be all bad.
posted via 184.151.61.2 user rlcossar.
message 43129 - 12/30/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Flying Down to Rio
Researching something to do with post-Great War British aeroplanes, I came across the Gnosspelius Gull registered G-BGN on 29th May 1923 and withdrawn the following year;. A second was built but unregistered; it crashed in1926, killing its pilot.
Oscar Gnosspelius designed the Gull whilst working in the test department of the Rochester based Short Brothers, later famous for their Empire and Sunderland type flying boats; a Lake District link is that Shorts had a war-time shadow factory on Lake Windermere. Before the Great War, in 1911 he had designed the Lakes Water Hen, a seaplane operating on Windermere.
Given the introduction of a seaplane in the recent film, who knows, perhaps a future production of Pigeon Post could have Squashy Hat using an aeroplane to reconnoitre the fells; perhaps the hawk that threatens the Pigeon Postal service could become a Gull or a Water Hen? At least such an inclusion would be an extra tribute to the actual, pre-copper prospecting, career of Squashy Hat, as well as a chance to include the title music from the 1933 film!
No doubt lots of readers know far more about SH’s aviation background, but I cannot recall it appearing on Tarboard before, and thought it might be of some interest for research over New Year’s day.

posted via 86.130.98.143 user Paul_Crisp.
message 43128 - 12/30/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
According to the reviews on Amazon.co.uk a lot of it was filmed in Yorkshire and the Secret Harbour is a very poorly reconstructed one, not the actual place!
posted via 2.29.89.70 user MTD.
message 43127 - 12/30/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
Maybe you could put it in a generic case and then one day watch it as just a story set in the Lakes without associating our much loved AR title to it.

I'd like to see it in part because it apparently shows the beautiful countryside that I generally otherwise only see through Lakeland Cam. I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to separate it from AR's work and enjoy the efforts of a film maker to tell a story.

And if any youth picked up real AR books this summer because they saw this movie then I think that is all good.
posted via 184.151.61.2 user rlcossar.


message 43126 - 12/29/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
There's a thought! Firstly, because of who gave it to me and secondly I will get around to watching one day. But that my not be for a long time!
posted via 2.29.89.70 user MTD.
message 43125 - 12/29/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
You can regift it to me
posted via 184.151.37.216 user rlcossar.
message 43124 - 12/28/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
Link got lost!

http://held-to-ransome.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/a-1-minute-review-of-swallows-and.html
posted via 95.150.76.98 user MTD.


message 43123 - 12/28/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: S & A 2016 Film (Again!)
As I predicted I received a copy of the new film as a Christmas present, I've commented about it on a blog I started a couple of years ago but never post much to before.


posted via 95.150.76.98 user MTD.


message 43122 - 12/28/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
What a great way to start a new year, Andy. I would start with S&A, not just because it is the first. Each of the 12 can stand alone, of course. But, if your wife loves it, there's the warming thought of 11 more to enjoy. Plus, there's that wonderful feeling the next time you read S&A of entering that world again,and the anticipation of all the ones to follow. It's a feeling that never goes.
posted via 86.161.52.232 user Tiss_Flower.
message 43121 - 12/27/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
A brief update: my stocking contained NO films this Christmas. :)

My wife, for some (inexplicable and quite frankly shocking) reason, has never read Ransome, but she'd clearly listened to my early December wailing and gnashing of teeth.

She HAS, however, read plenty of C.S.Lewis. So, at the time, I'd asked her how she'd feel if the books she'd loved as a girl were to be turned into some action-adventure CGI Big Music outing. Done and dusted in 97 minutes. I think the message hit home.

And on this note ... I had not read the Narnia books as a young 'un, so we read them out loud to each other together, chapter-by-talking-lion-chapter.

As she now 'owes me one', which Ransome novel would the members of Tarboard consider to be the best to undergo this treatment? I have some thoughts, but would love to hear other suggestions.

Andy
posted via 88.111.192.54 user Andy.


message 43120 - 12/24/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
Aha, it's Gollum again - a merry Christmas to you. Actually, I wish we could find deeper in Capt Flint's trunk his lost chapter describing the incompetent fish-frying - that would be a gem.

posted via 86.152.150.108 user JG.
message 43119 - 12/24/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
What about "Spot the accurate bits in the new S&A film". (This one demands concentration.)
posted via 81.132.173.164 user Peter_H.
message 43118 - 12/24/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
'The Highland Stalk' - can you evade the ghillies? 'Catch the buoy' or drift out to sea... Panning for gold, of course. Signalling to Mars. Santa's Igloo at Christmas. Dragon Festival.
We could be on to something.......
posted via 86.152.150.108 user JG.
message 43117 - 12/23/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
There is always the popular “Sailing blindfold in Rio Bay” (Summer Saturdays only).
Or the seasonal “Swim to the Fram under ice”
Maybe the authentic Great Aunt experience “ Be hunted by hounds in the woods”

posted via 84.92.128.73 user OwenRoberts.
message 43116 - 12/23/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
or the Dodging Pike Rock Challenge
posted via 184.151.61.60 user rlcossar.
message 43115 - 12/23/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
Let's not forget the Captain Flint Plank Walk and the Lighthouse Tree Climbing Adventure.

Perhaps Slater Bob's Gold Mine Ride would be fun though a bit scary.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43114 - 12/23/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
The ever-popular rescue of a crag-bound sheep.


posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43113 - 12/23/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re 'Ransome Theme Park' (was Secret Water Road Naming)
But there's fun to be had with this concept! Any offers? 'Roger's scary abseiling' and so on?

The would have to be a Knickerbocker breaker!

"Octopus Lagoon" ride, the "Crab Island" experience, "Ice sled" ride
posted via 86.179.135.235 user MartinH.


message 43112 - 12/22/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Secret Water Road Naming
Yes, I've seen signs for that! At least TDC's decision is in proper recognition of AR. There's been no news on naming the roads on the housing estate that is being built to named with reference to SW.
posted via 95.150.197.189 user MTD.
message 43111 - 12/22/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Secret Water Road Naming
Many years ago a friend who knew of my interest in AR told me confidently that she'd driven past the 'Ransome Theme Park' near Ipswich. Turns out that she had seen a sign to the Ransomes Europark industrial estate (named after the lawnmower-maker, to whom AR was distantly related) on the A14. I had to break it gently to her that there were no S&A experiences on offer there.
But there's fun to be had with this concept! Any offers? 'Roger's scary abseiling' and so on?
posted via 86.152.150.108 user JG.
message 43110 - 12/22/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Secret Water Road Naming
This week the road name sign has been erected in the new development in Walton on the Naze at the site of the old Martello Caravan Park (off the B1034 Kirby Road) - the entry road is now 'Arthur Ransome Way'.

The decision was made by Tendring District Council back in September, a PDF can be seen here

http://tdcdemocracy.tendringdc.gov.uk/documents/d153/Printed%20decision%202716%20Proposed%20Road%20Naming%20and%20Numbering%20-%20Arthur%20Ransome%20Way%20Kirby%20RoadWalton-on.pdf?T=5

Curiously, the document refers to it being the old Naze Marine Holiday Park which is further towards the Naze and still in business!
posted via 95.150.197.189 user MTD.


message 43109 - 12/17/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Old Peter's Russian Tales
For those who might wish to get back to the genuine world of Arthur Ransome there is now available a new and revised paperback edition of AR’s book ‘Old Peter’s Russian Tales’ (first published in 1916), and this also includes ‘The Battle of the Birds and the Beasts’ (published in 1984). Both of these are collections of Russian folk stories, as noted down and translated by AR in his first visits to Russia. The stories give a wonderful insight into folk memories of ‘old Russia’ set among the vast forests, alive with animals. This is the real Russia that Ransome loved (nothing to do with cardboard ‘spies’).

This combined volume is published by the Arthur Ransome Trust (ART). If anyone’s interested, you can order the book at the ART online shop (not a bad Christmas Present?)

ART Shop



posted via 5.81.1.46 user Peter_H.


message 43108 - 12/16/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
I am not concerned with film-maker’s profits.

That's a perfectly reasonable position to adopt. I read the books- have only seen the 1974 Whatham film, which I thought was excellent. But my main "vision" of the stories comes from my ancient impressions from the books.
However, if we want to see films of the books, then we have to take into account the only thing that makes their production possible- the film producers' profits. And wanting the films is also a perfectly reasonable position to take.
We're getting both, so I reckon we're doing all right.
posted via 90.255.41.69 user PeterC.


message 43107 - 12/15/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
I'm still keen to see it. I have no plans to travel to Britain in the next year though so I guess I'll wait a while:(
posted via 184.151.63.148 user rlcossar.
message 43106 - 12/15/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
A festive toast to you, Magnus, for your generous and fair-minded enjoyment of the pleasure of those thousands of other people of all ages and backgrounds. There are many other films for children these days which will do them less good in their lives.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 43105 - 12/15/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
"messing about in boats"

This certainly should have been a well loved oft repeated phrase found somewhere in a RANSOME book, but such is not the case.

I quote from "WIND IN TH$ WILLOWS" -

`Nice? It's the only thing,' said the Water Rat solemnly, as he
leant forward for his stroke. `Believe me, my young friend,
there is nothing -- absolute nothing -- half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats. Simply messing,' he went on
dreamily: `messing -- about -- in -- boats; messing -- -- '

Our beloved Ransome characters would certainly have agreed with such a claim.

And as for seeing the DVD of that movie, I am glad the technology used in that offering is for the UK, but NOT acceptable in machines in the USA. So I am spared the dismay of warping of the story I knew of my childhood friends.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 43104 - 12/15/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
A good book lets the reader use their imagination. Once it is on screen you tend to think of the appearance of the actor rather than the character. Very good casting avoids this to a degree, but ever since seeing the 1974 film I see Sophie Neville instead of my vision of Titty.

Note how Ransome gives very few physical descriptions allowing us to have our own ideas of a character.


A very merry festive season to you all. Here's to a great 2017 full of people sailing, fishing, camping, exploring, playing, pretending, and maybe finding treasure...

Hear, hear! Perhaps the greatest treasure of all is simply finding the pleasure that messing about in boats is all about.
posted via 81.140.174.136 user MartinH.


message 43103 - 12/15/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
... and I should have added, I am in heated agreement with your September comments --

...it should be borne in mind that “Swallows & Amazons” is not a play – it is a novel, which is a very different animal. With a play, be it Shakespeare or whoever, all you need do is stick to the script, and then you can do what you like with the setting, the costumes, have women playing male roles etc etc, but it is considered a no-no to interfere with the script written by the playwright. With a novel, the whole book is in effect the “script” and therefore you should be faithful to it. A “new Nancy interpretation” is, to my mind, a perversion of what Ransome intended. He did not write Nancy as a “sulky pre-teenager” and therefore you should not portray Nancy as such. The fact that it may appeal more to present-day children (and thereby increase box-office appeal) is to my mind irrelevant. I am not concerned with film-maker’s profits.
posted via 124.171.84.85 user mikefield.


message 43102 - 12/15/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
Well, thanks for your last bit, Peter. But I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, nevertheless. You're certainly right in that I was one who declared early on my intentions to not see it, however -- I just couldn't see how train chases and spies and aeroplanes could possibly play any part in S&A.

The book is the book, and it is what it is. Making a film from it by condensing and abridging material as deemed useful is one thing -- wilfully adding spurious material for whatever reason is something else altogether (and also is something up with which I steadfastly refuse to put).
posted via 124.171.84.85 user mikefield.


message 43101 - 12/15/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Availablilty of the books
Old news now, but I found the full set in an antiquarian bookshop in Adelaide while I was holidaying there about ten years ago -- bought them on the spot and had them mailed directly home.
posted via 124.171.84.85 user mikefield.
message 43100 - 12/15/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
A few people thought I was weird when I said I was deliberately avoiding the new film, as I did with the musical a few years ago. I just know it won't bring me any pleasure.

What WILL bring me pleasure, though, is thousands of other people watching the film and enjoying it on their own level. It is great that lots more people are now aware of Ransome's tales.

I'm pretty sure there's no danger of anyone gifting it to me this Christmas!

A very merry festive season to you all. Here's to a great 2017 full of people sailing, fishing, camping, exploring, playing, pretending, and maybe finding treasure...
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43099 - 12/14/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
...I am somewhat in fear I will be getting a DVD of this film all wrapped up by well-meaning gift-givers this Christmas. I can't say I want to see it, ever. :(

Andy


posted via 88.111.196.113 user Andy.


message 43098 - 12/14/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
Interesting view Peter.

I was in two minds about it, I avoided buying it on DVD but no doubt someone in the family will buy it for me for Christmas.

From all I've read and the clips and photos I've seen I have this feeling that I will end up with a response like yours.
posted via 95.150.197.253 user MTD.


message 43097 - 12/14/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: 2016 S&A Film - a late reaction
The new Swallows & Amazons film is now available on DVD. I watched it yesterday, for the first time. Sorry, but I hated every minute of it. The one advantage of watching on DVD is that I could fast-forward through the more unpleasant bits. If I had my time again, I would not have watched this film - it has left a deeply unpleasant taste in my mouth. It was far worse than I thought it would be. I think it was Mike Field who said he wasn't going to watch it at all. Good decision, Mike.
posted via 5.81.1.46 user Peter_H.
message 43096 - 12/01/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
Actually, Mike, you made many good suggestions for future iterations. Anyone building a Fliptail would do well to read your ideas on it.

Aw, shucks... Bucephalus is actually a Ralph Stanley design, not a Herreshoff, but I think that's a pretty good pedigree, too.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43095 - 11/30/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Accommodation on the Broads yachts (was:Sailing boats must have names)
The smallest crew member got to choose where to sleep – on the floor of the main cabin or in the sail locker (which on the "Hustlers is quite spacious) forward of the mast. The sail locker was the favourite, except when sailing at the end of March/beginning of April when it was terribly cold.

Not strictly relevant, but this reminds me so vividly of my nephew-by-marriage, Nick, who as a young lad crewed as sailmaster in "Merit", in two successive Whitbread races to New Zealand. He had no sense of comfort whatsoever, used to sleep on the floor next to the kitchen in his mother's flat, and on "Merit" slept in the sail locker. He'd monkey up into the rigging with his little hand held sewing machine to repair torn sections... Utterly mad. They did all right in the monohull class. He now has his own business (Europsails, in Geneva) and makes sail sets for others, so the Whitbread connections paid off well. He also brought a wife back from New Zealand, and before that seems to have sampled all the girls on the PacRim (well he was very beautiful, as well as a sailor in a foreign port, and these things count).
posted via 90.255.41.69 user PeterC.


message 43094 - 11/29/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
Alex' last comment is not entirely true -- all I came up with was reams of praise for his build.... :)

I might also add that his sloop Bucephalus, to which Foal is the tender, has a great pedigree. She is one of my all-time favourite boats. Alex can correct me here, but I believe she's a Herreshoff design, being 19' on deck and drawing 3'-3". I love her perfectly-balanced gaff rig. And she's also perfectly-named, as you'll remember that the original Bucephalus was the horse ridden by the first Alexander-the-Great.

[ Image ]

posted via 124.171.166.234 user mikefield.


message 43093 - 11/28/16
From: Jock, subject: "Britain's lost waterlands..." (was: Sailing boats must have names)
Hmm... Thank you JG for the prod.

We don't have TV, and the powers that be have decided in their wisdom that the Beeb's iPlayer does not work outside the UK – an own goal for the UK's foreign office in my humble view.

Having got that off my chest, I did contrive to watch the programme and greatly enjoyed it, particularly the Broads and East Coast sections.

Yes it was the same "Wood Rose", though looking at the planking it's probably time she was fitted with new ribs, if not more!

posted via 178.43.197.245 user Jock.


message 43092 - 11/28/16
From: Jock, subject: Accommodation on the Broads yachts (was:Sailing boats must have names)
An interesting question! When my parents hired "Summer Breeze" she was billed as 3-berth, and from what I remember, the third berth was NEXT to the toilet. We actually had four crew members on board – the fourth sleeping on an extra mattress on the floor between the two main berths.

I usually had 3 crew members when hiring one of the 2-berth "Hustlers" and arranged for an extra mattress and bedding. The smallest crew member got to choose where to sleep – on the floor of the main cabin or in the sail locker (which on the "Hustlers is quite spacious) forward of the mast. The sail locker was the favourite, except when sailing at the end of March/beginning of April when it was terribly cold.

The Hunter fleet is immaculately maintained and the "Hustler" sail locker definitely does not smell!
posted via 178.43.197.245 user Jock.


message 43091 - 11/28/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Russians....
Well, it has taken the British media 90 years to pierce the 'local burglar' cover of our operatives; what else will now emerge?
posted via 81.159.83.70 user JG.
message 43090 - 11/28/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: Russians....
So, Comrade, the Russians in the film.... What did you want to discuss, or has it been censored by the Politburo?
posted via 86.157.210.253 user Paul_Crisp.
message 43089 - 11/27/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
Listening to an unabridged reading of S&A is great, but this reader has misinterpreted fundamentally the first crucial plot line. He reads the famous telegram as "Better drowned than duffers. If not, duffers won't drown". I know the best interpreter of AR's books is Gabriel Woolf, but his readings are abtidged and, while I think he's done it so well, you hardly notice anything left out, I am a bit of a stickler for unabridged versions of books. Any thoughts on who would be as good an AR interpreter? Alex Jennings, who has done some brilliant Dickens' readings, has done his version of S&A but, sadly, the library's only copy has been withdrawn due to a missing CD. I think Martin Jarvis would be fantastic. His Just William readings are pure joy.
posted via 86.152.151.170 user Tiss_Flower.
message 43088 - 11/26/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Have you seen the programme about AR on BBC 4 this evening? Exploring Lake District, Broads, and Pin Mill area. In the Broads part, there's a shot of sailing-boats for hire and I saw a 'Hustler'; then we see the commentator in his hired boat, and it's 'Wood Rose', marked as from Ludham. Same one, even?
posted via 81.159.83.70 user JG.
message 43087 - 11/25/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
Thank you for the compliments all around! That's a "Fliptail 7" dinghy that I just built this past summer.

I've been interested in folding dinghies ever since reading GN?, and since towing a dinghy in a 19' sloop has serious drawbacks, I finally decided to build one. I very much wanted to build a Berthon, even contacting the company to see if they had plans --they don't, their modern business is in yacht services, but they're *very* pleasant-- or something like the Nautiraid "Coracle", which is as close as you can get to one of the old Berthons today.

No plans exist for something that complex, and a Nautiraid is beyond my budget, but the Wooden Widgets "Fliptail" looked good, so I went with that. I modified it quite a bit from the original, but I'm pretty pleased with how it came out --and for those wondering, it's nowhere near as tippy as Mac's. My narrative of the build is at the link below if anyone wants to follow suit, and I went into a bit more detail on the build on the WoodenBoat Forum (where our Mike Field came up with some good ideas for further mods). I can recommend the project wholeheartedly.

Alex

posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.
message 43086 - 11/25/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
Thank you for the info. It sounds as varied there as it is here.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43085 - 11/25/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
I was interested to note, Alex, that your very fine sloop is attended by a neat Berthon-style folding dinghy, which the good Mr. Ransome was quite keen on. By 'Berthon-style' I intend to indicate that folding dinghies of this design were manufactured in commercial quantities in the 1930s by the Berthon Boat Building Company on the Isle of Wight.
posted via 137.147.29.177 user David.
message 43084 - 11/25/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
I don't know the situation in the 1930s, but currently vessels kept in the Norfolk Broads area for more than 28 days must be registered with the Broads Authority. Registered vessels should display the registration number where it can be easily read. See http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/owning-a-boat/tolls for details.

Other authorities have different rules and requirements. Most rivers and canals are controlled by the Canal and River Trust, whereas the rivers Thames and Medway are controlled by the Environment Agency.

I think boats on the lakes of the Lake District are registered with the local authority (council).

So all in all it depends on where you are.
posted via 109.150.85.222 user MartinH.


message 43083 - 11/25/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Registration, was Re: Sailing boats must have names
"All the craft proudly displayed their names, none had their registration numbers marked on the hull."

What's the law over there, for what needs visible numbers?

Here in the US, what boats are and aren't required to be registered varies from state to state: in Maine, my 19' sloop wasn't required to be registered because she doesn't have an engine (no engine, no reg, no size limit); in Washington State, anything over 16' on deck is required to be registered whether it has an engine or not. (Wasn't THAT a mess, sorting it out when I moved from one to the other!) Then there are nationally registered "documented" vessels, above five tons net, that must display a name and port of hail, but don't display any numbers. And commercial fishing vessels must display their fishing license as well as any registration numbers, but that's different. But if a boat is required to be registered, you're in serious trouble if you don't display your bow numbers and a valid annual "tag" that shows you've paid your registration fee.

For reference, here's my sloop's version: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8597/28812989774_1815ebc92c_b.jpg The first two letters are the state (WN is Washington; adding to the confusion, they don't necessarily correspond to the state's general useage two-letter abbreviation, where Washington is WA); then a sequence of numbers and letters unique to the boat (in Washington, four numbers and two letters; in Maine, typically four numbers and one letter); then the self-adhesive, reflective state "tag" that indicates your wallet has been duly emptied into the state coffers.

Should Goblin have displayed registration numbers? Sir Garnet? The Beckfoot launch? Teasel? Swallow and Amazon? Sometimes I see photos of cutters or barges and they have big numbers or letters on their sails, and sometimes numbers on their hulls --and I haven't any idea what I'm looking at.

How did things work then, and how do they work now?

Alex

posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.
message 43082 - 11/25/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Jock, I am sure I hired "Summer Breeze" out of Horning too! But that was 1998. My wife was horrified by what was probably the same toilet bowl you saw in 1964, which flushed with river water.

There were only two proper berths though, so did your parents make you sleep in the sail locker, forward of the mast? It was terribly smelly in there I recall from the one time I peeped in.
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43081 - 11/24/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
After waiting patiently in line for my library copy of S&A on audiobook (unabridged), I have finally got it, but can't renew it because there is stll a queue after me. When the DVD comes out, hopefully the queue will lengthen again.
posted via 86.152.151.170 user Tiss_Flower.
message 43080 - 11/23/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
In 1964 (my first Broads holiday) my parents hired "Summer Breeze" a Bermudan sloop from a boatyard in Horning. In subsequent years, I had the good fortune to sail in various gaff-rigged boats from the magnificent Hunter fleet: "Wood Rose", "Wood Anemone", and two different "Hustlers". All the craft proudly displayed their names, none had their registration numbers marked on the hull.


posted via 178.43.206.242 user Jock.
message 43079 - 11/23/16
From: Patrick Fox, subject: Re: "As old as my tongue...
Mmm. How odd, I definitely associate it with Ransome in my mind. Its not said in the (1974) film is it? I'll keep thinking - irritating when you can't quite place something!!

Cheers
Patrick
posted via 185.58.164.43 user PJF.


message 43078 - 11/23/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: "As old as my tongue...
The quote about tongue and teeth is definitely not mentioned in any of the S&A books; I've confirmed with a computer search of the ebooks.

The only bit I can think of, which you might have been remembering, was this:


Young Billy gave a last pat or two to the smoking mound, and came to them. He was another old man, but not quite so old as the first.
“Dad been showing you round?” he said to the Swallows.
“Is he your son?” Roger asked the first old man.
“He is that, and got sons and grandsons of his own, too. You wouldn’t think I was as old as all that. But I’m Old Billy and he’s Young Billy.”
“He doesn’t look like a son,” said Roger.
Young Billy laughed. “Let’s have the box, dad,” he said, and Old Billy gave him the cigar-box.

posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43077 - 11/22/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
"Elver, Fry, Grig is nicely alphabetical..."

That's a good point, keeping them alphabetically distinct. An old and important technique for keeping characters distinct in the reader's head --and, conversely, for linking them where appropriate: e.g. Dick and Dorothea. I had thought to keep Grig and Glut similar to match Dum and Dee, but maybe otherwise would be better.

Not sure about using a collective term as a name, though. A boat is an individual. Hmm...

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43076 - 11/22/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: "As old as my tongue...
I don't think mine would have, either.
posted via 92.18.211.69 user Mike_Jones.
message 43075 - 11/22/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: "As old as my tongue...
It was also a favourite saying of my grandmother (b. 1878). She was not a well-educted person and probably wouldn't have read it in Swift.
posted via 2.31.187.161 user eclrh.
message 43074 - 11/22/16
From: Mike Jones , subject: Re: "As old as my tongue...
I'm sure I haven't come across it in AR, but it was a favourite saying of my grandmother (b. 1891).
posted via 82.132.234.114 user Mike_Jones.
message 43073 - 11/22/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Huh? Monosyllabic?? Must have been at the gin. Apologies.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 43072 - 11/22/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Lovely try-out of my eel-tender names, Alex! I agree that 'glass' isn't ideal; a quick trawl (ha) of collective nouns for eels produces swarm, fry, bed, congress, wisp, draft, array, seething. 'Fry' is an East Asian collective term for glass eels; Elver, Fry, Grig is nicely alphabetical and monosyllabic.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 43071 - 11/22/16
From: Patrick Fox, subject: "As old as my tongue...
"As old as my tongue and a little bit older than my teeth" is, I was sure, said by one of the Billies in either S&A or Swallowdale. However, I happened to mention it to someone recently, to be told it was a Jonathan Swift quote, which google seems to confirm. And now I come to look for it in the AR books, I actually can't find it at all. Am I making up the Ransome connection? Does anyone else recall this saying cropping up in any of the books?

Cheers
Patrick
posted via 185.58.164.43 user PJF.


message 43070 - 11/21/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
No 100 points for me; I had to search them out. Clever references, though!

Elver, Grig, and Glass are pretty darn good, too. I might go with Elver, Grig, and Glut, to avoid using a name that's also a commonly used word.

Yes, AR could have provided such a list at the beginning, but then he'd have been expected to use the names throughout --else why would he have told us about them? Letting things like that drop away unused is bad form, as a writer. It doesn't add enough richness to the story to warrant the way it slows the story down.

That's all just a guess. Yes, he could have done it in a way that wasn't disasterous:

"They watched the dinghies pass, two ahead of Goblin, one astern, spooling out wakes straight enough John could find no fault in them.
"Elver", Titty read the departing transom of the first dinghy. And then, puzzled, "Glut."
"Grig," added John, watching the third, confident Swallow would have pointed just as well and wishing she could have the opportunity to try.
"Puddingheads," Roger confirmed his judgement.

The trick is, could he have set it up so that the opportunity to see and note the dinghies' names significantly added to the story, rather than just slowing it down? He had a lot to do, to get the Swallows gloomy, then put right, then on their way out to Secret Water, all of which was mostly preamble to the main storyline, so it needed to move as quickly as possible. Later, with each of Eels in their own boat, there was no advantage in using boat names as shorthand to refer to a collection of people, so he may have decided it wasn't worth the complexity.

And I could have all of that completely wrong, but I'm 700,000 words into a nine-book / 1m+ word fantasy series I'm writing, with over 450 named characters, so the principles of not confusing my (future) readers, and keeping the story moving forward, have become very important to me.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43069 - 11/21/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
So, the BS connection? "Chimbley" was the last connection I made; "Warmints" was easy, and triggered "Bangate".
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 43068 - 11/21/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
So, the BS connection? "Chimbley" was the last connection I made; "Warmints" was easy, and triggered "Bangate".
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 43067 - 11/21/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Elver, Grig and Glass
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 43066 - 11/21/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
You have half-convinced me, Alex, but not fully. There could have been a brief list of names right at the start of the voyage, and then they could have been ignored thereafter.

Moray, Conger, and Electric! I like those names.

But I prefer Bangate, Warmint and Chimbley.

If you can recall 'warmints' without looking it up you win 100 points.
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43065 - 11/20/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
Usually nowadays, a long lease can be inherited or is bought and sold on the open market and the value paid is not affected by being leasehold rather than freehold. If the lease was for a short period, then the price could be affected as it is possible that the landowner would not want to renew the lease rendering your purchase effectively valueless.

Some leases, especially of agricultural cottages in the 19th century could be tied to a given number of generations of a single family, in Hardy's novels a three life lease which expires when the third person dies, is typical.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43064 - 11/20/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
As a writer, I suspect AR made a very conscious choice to *not* name those dinghies: AR was managing *a lot* of characters in those scenes, which is very tricky (he does it well, too), and adding three more names for the reader to keep track of would have made for more difficult reading. Wizard and Firefly could be used to refer to their crews collectively, thus can simplify a scene for a reader, but adding Moray, Conger, and Electric to the personae dramatis would only clutter it up.

Alex

posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43063 - 11/20/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
Right. Got it. Sorry to wander off on my own. Thanks for clarification.

How would such a 999-year lease play out, in an inheritace? Would it be essentially as if the Turners had owned Beckfoot outright, and one of the kids (assuming James) would have inherited it, or is it more complex?

I've always loved the idea of a peppercorn rent.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43062 - 11/19/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Perhaps they were all marked
"Tender to Lapwing"
At one time and maybe still today, if a yacht had to pay licence or mooring fees, tenders would be included in the fee. If tenders had separate names then they would be liable for a separate fee.
Further north most Broads boats had letters & numbers without a need for names.
Perhaps someone could update this please, as it is a while since I was in East Anglia.
posted via 87.112.48.195 user OwenRoberts.
message 43061 - 11/19/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Sailing boats must have names
Perhaps they were called Dum, Dee and Daisy.
posted via 88.110.67.65 user Mike_Jones.
message 43060 - 11/19/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Sailing boats must have names
I've just flicked through Secret Water to check my memory hadn't failed me. I cannot find any reference to the names of the three dinghies which the Eels sail.

Surely Ransome didn't dismiss these craft and let them go unnamed?! So many other pages are riddled with the carefully-italicised Wizard and Firefly. Then there's Lapwing, Speedy and Goblin. I just find it odd.

The Eel's dinghies even remain unnamed in the scene where six craft all raft up, and we learn who is sitting with who etc. This contains my second-favourite quote of all time, said by Roger:

"Here the fleet hogged."
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.


message 43059 - 11/19/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
...would have been paid...
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43058 - 11/19/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
You misunderstand me. I am not suggesting it was leased from James Turner, but I am suggesting that the whole house and grounds could have been leased from Lord Mucky-Muck's estate, perhaps by the Turner grandparents. This would allow them to act as "owners" in terms of decorating etc. and also treat it as a family home. The original lessors would have paid a lump sum for the lease equivalent to the value of the house at that time discounted depending on the length of the lease left. They might have to pay a ground rent of a peppercorn a year to the estate, but the lease could be held for many generations. I once "owned" a house in Lancaster which I bought with 997 years of lease left on it. I never paid the peppercorn rent but they didn't evict me for non-payment.

In Thomas Hardy there is a family which leased a farm for three generations and the drama in part turns on the death of the last leaseholder and the eviction of the family.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43057 - 11/19/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
Nancy and Peggy clearly regard Beckfoot as the family home, so the most logical assumption is that it belongs to the Turners. It is unlikely that a maiden great-aunt would have owned it when there was a male Turner to father Molly and Jim. Suggestions that the Turners rented it seem rather unnecessary.
posted via 88.110.67.65 user Mike_Jones.
message 43056 - 11/19/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
Maybe it's just a difference in culture, but it strikes me as unlikely that CF's study or bedroom would be left intact on such a long-term lease. When I was a renter, I'd occasionally see houses posted for rent where an outbuilding --shed, barn, garage-- was unavailable to the renter, typically because it was being used as the owner's storage unit, but I never saw some portion of the house itself held aside for the owner.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43055 - 11/18/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
It could be a long term lease which is different from renting month by month. Many estates lease out houses and cottages for a period of many years (up to 999). This makes the occupier essentially responsible for the maintenance of the building.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43054 - 11/18/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
As I have suggested elsewhere, it would explain a great deal if Mrs Blackett were renting Beckfoot from the GA.

posted via 108.16.164.82 user Didymus.
message 43053 - 11/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
If she rents it, why was she so involved with the decorators in PP? Wouldn't that have been the landlord's responsibility?
posted via 2.28.231.225 user MTD.
message 43052 - 11/17/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
Or maybe Mrs Blackett just rents Beckfoot, like the Collingwoods at Lanehead.
posted via 81.156.113.154 user Magnus.
message 43051 - 11/17/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Beckfoot ownership, was Sammy's fears
It struck me as a very practical arrangement. And while I imagine Molly would have had her own inheritance, separate of any bequest from Bob, to have that familiar home to anchor herself and her family would have become even more important, emotionally, with Bob gone. Keeping CF's study and bedroom available could serve as a similarly important emotional support: he's her brother, and while he might be off in South America prospecting for gold, he's still there for her.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43050 - 11/16/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
Bob Blackett was probably no pauper in his own right, so the Blackett girls would have been quite a catch.

posted via 88.110.67.65 user Mike_Jones.
message 43049 - 11/15/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
I agree with that.

There seems to be no direct evidence of ownership, but Mrs Blackett certainly arranges the upkeep and Captain Flint has a study and a bedroom for whenever he is there.
posted via 2.28.231.225 user MTD.


message 43048 - 11/15/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
I reckon that two cents of yours is worth $2, Alex.... That's the most sensible supposition I've heard yet.
posted via 124.171.166.234 user mikefield.
message 43047 - 11/15/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
"Unmarried, disinherited in favour of the married daughter."

What if he *wasn't* disinherited: he *did* inherit Beckfoot, but since he spends his time off adventuring, why wouldn't he hand over the keys to Beckfoot to his sister, whom he obviously loves, and her husband, whom it seems he thought very highly of?

Yes, as the heir apparent he had taken over a big chunk of the household real estate with his study, but they're newly married and on their way toward a family, and he's still enough of a kid to enjoy living aboard his houseboat, so it only makes sense that Molly and Bob have the house to raise their family in.

Later on, when his nieces have turned into a proper pair of hoydens (in the modern complimentary useage, please), it remains convenient to use the houseboat just to have a little peace. Besides, when he admits it to himself, it's fun being the piratical uncle who lives on a houseboat.

Just my two cents.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 43046 - 11/13/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Warning -- DVD of the new film
It should be noted that TarBoard does not condone illegal copying of DVDs or BluRays. Please do not use our facilities to arrange any such transactions.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 43044 - 11/11/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: DVD of the new film
Amazon are releasing the DVD in the UK on December 12 at the price of £9.99.
posted via 86.182.41.83 user Peter_H.
message 43043 - 11/11/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: DVD of the new film
Unlike books where there are often different publishers in Canada (Commonwealth distribution) and the US, North American DVDs and BluRays are all the same Region 1 or A code and different from the British Region 2 code which means you have to be careful about ordering from UK dealers.

There are some players which can play different regions but they tend to be more expensive.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43042 - 11/10/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: DVD of the new film
I haven't seen anything but I'm not a film buff and don't follow film information, I'm afraid.

Are Canada and the U.S. the same code area? Can't remember.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.


message 43041 - 11/10/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: DVD of the new film
I see that the UK release of the new film on DVD/BluRay is coming on December 12th 2016.

Still no reports of a cinematic release here in Canada. Usually films are released simultaneously in the US and Canada, anything of interest from south of the border?
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43039 - 11/07/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Availablilty of the books
Perhaps they sold all the copies of S&A?
posted via 86.189.206.52 user MartinH.
message 43038 - 11/07/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Availablilty of the books
I always check when I am in an unfamiliar bookshop to see if they have any of "The Twelve" in stock. Most have SA, and good bookshops often have 3 or 4 of the others. Full sets are rare.
But I was intrigued to find in a Sydney bookshop last week that they had a full set of all the 12 except SA, some in several editions.
This is even odder when you realise that the new film hasn't reached Australia.
posted via 14.2.89.159 user awhakim.
message 43037 - 10/28/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Sammy and the GA
The GA says to Sammy (PM29) "It would be useless to talk to your sergeant, but I regret that I am leaving too soon to have a few words with your mother", and Nancy said earlier (PM21) when the GA described the burglar’s clothes: "Sammy was quite good for a policeman. He asked her if she could be sure of the colours in the moonlight, and she had to explain that she had only seen the colours in the daytime when you (Timothy) were loitering .... suspiciously in the road" . So the GA knew to speak to Sammy’s mother!
posted via 203.96.136.19 user hugo.
message 43036 - 10/28/16
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
But who disinherited him, if his parents were both dead when he was so young that the GA had to bring him up?
Did he become the black sheep because of the way she brought him up?

Did they? Possibly only Grandmother Turner died young and Captain von Trapp brought in Sister Maria to raise his children*

He survives until 1916/17, when with Jim still in parts foreign and unknown, and the birth of Babe Ruth, he writes a new will.

* Sorry. wrong story there
posted via 101.178.163.206 user Allan_Lang.


message 43035 - 10/28/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
Compare and contrast Ransome's treatment of Sammy as a bit of a figure of fun and an ineffective investigator who is flummoxed by his interview with the children on Wild Cat with his dealing with the much more formidable Constable Tedder in Coot Club and The Big Six.

Tedder is treated with respect if not a bit of fear and as a definite authority figure, no mocking or even teasing him. And it is not just the D&Gs whose social position might mean that they would be more intimidated, Tom and the Ds also respect him, even while wondering if he was the villain who cast off the boats.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 43034 - 10/28/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
I still see Sammy as essentially a comic character.

Sammy's a classic music hall character, isn't he? The light relief. Gentle mockery of authority (but never questioning authority itself, nor society as it existed; AR may have admired Lenin but not in the Lakes).
Formidable women are clearly something AR enjoyed.

posted via 90.255.43.30 user PeterC.
message 43033 - 10/27/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
Although I agree with the earlier point that the Turners rather than the Blacketts' were probably the influential ancestors, not so sure that Jim Turner (CF) was disinherited.
Perfectly possible that he owns at least part of Beckfoot and his room indicates that he has at least a toehold there. He may live in the Houseboat in an attempt to distance himself from Nancy & Peggy. He certainly retains a great affection for his sister.
posted via 80.189.180.240 user OwenRoberts.
message 43032 - 10/27/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
But who disinherited him, if his parents were both dead when he was so young that the GA had to bring him up? Did he become the black sheep because of the way she brought him up?
posted via 88.110.66.19 user Mike_Jones.
message 43031 - 10/26/16
From: Allan_Lang, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
But Jim was the Black Sheep. Unmarried, disinherited in favour of the married daughter. (WAG)
posted via 101.178.163.14 user Allan_Lang.
message 43030 - 10/26/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
On a point of detail, it seems to me that the influential family was the Turners rather than than the Blacketts. My clear impression is that the GA brought up Molly and Jim at Beckfoot, the family home. Perhaps when Bob Blackett died the widow and daughters moved back there, although it would probably have passed to her brother as the son and heir.

Whatever, I still see Sammy as essentially a comic character.
posted via 88.110.66.19 user Mike_Jones.


message 43029 - 10/25/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
The Blacketts were people of influence and several people seemed to have worked for them. From Carrotty, the porter at the foot of the lake, who had worked at Beckfoot, to Slater Bob who went with Nancy's grandfather to help with mining in Africa. The Lewthwaite mother who was a nursemaid, Billy who is a part time chauffer and Mrs Braithwaite the full time cook.
Many servants (or workers) at one time all of whom needed accommodation. Some could have slept at Beckfoot either in the house or over the stables (there was probably at least a stable boy/coachman to look after the horses). Not unreasonable to assume that there were tied cottages for others as was usual in country districts when one needed workers close at hand.
Both Mrs Tyson and Mary Swainson will defer to Mrs Blackett are they possibly tenant farmers?
I will agree that it is not directly mentioned that they were landlords, but they certainly had a number of servants who then declined to one full time cook, as happened generally in the 1930’s.
No doubt the Great Aunt was a considerable influence over the surroundings even going to bully the vicar in SD because she had heard that standards were falling.
I have no doubt that the Backetts were the major family in their immediate area with a number of servants at one time. It might be instructive to compare the situation with the owners of Lanehead with the Collingwood’s as tenants.

posted via 80.189.180.240 user OwenRoberts.
message 43028 - 10/24/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
I am sorry but I get very impatient with theories about the Blacketts being landlords and everyone else being subservient to them. There is no evidence for this and it is a dull 'political' way of explaining things. Sammy was afraid of his mother no doubt because of the sort of character she was, and I can easily imagine this. My own father was terrified of his mother!
posted via 81.129.95.179 user Peter_H.
message 43027 - 10/23/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
I take it as another example of AR's humour: big, strong policeman terrified of his mother.
posted via 88.110.71.109 user Mike_Jones.
message 43026 - 10/23/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
One of my favourite passages in SA, Sammy getting routed by Nancy as he's picked on an easy target in John, whereas if confronted with a criminal he'd probably run away (he receives similar treatment from the GA in the closing scenes of PM.)

It is probably a reflection of how the local constable was thought of and treated in the time AR was writing about.

I must take issue with the comment "He knows Nancy misbehaves...", she certainly, as we would say today, pushes the boundaries (in WH and PM in particular) but I don't think she ever 'misbehaves'.
posted via 95.149.55.175 user MTD.


message 43025 - 10/22/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Sammy's fears
I think the relationship between the Lewthwaite's & Blackett's was almost servant like and may well have been so in former times.
It could be that the Lewthwaite's lived in a tied cottage owned by the Blackett's. At worst Mrs Lewthwaite and her younger son could have been thrown out (Did Sammy live there also?)of their house.
A bluff by Nancy, but one that would give a cause for thought.
posted via 80.189.180.240 user OwenRoberts.
message 43024 - 10/22/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Sammy's fears
Please can someone explain why Sammy is shaken when Nancy threatens,
“If you don’t go away at once I’ll tell your mother.”
What was Nancy going to tell?! Sammy's only misdemeanour was wrongly accusing John, a typically adult point of view that Sammy's mother would probably have agreed with.

“His mother used to be mother’s nurse, and she was our nurse too when we were very young. He’s our policeman. He isn’t afraid of anybody except his mother … and us, of course.”

The explanation of the bond between the two families doesn't seem to explain to me why a grown adult would cease doing his job. He knows Nancy misbehaves, so he's hardly got any reassurances that her friend (John) is innocent.
posted via 81.140.188.172 user Magnus.


message 43021 - 10/18/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Horsey Island as a nature reserve is co-managed by Natural England and the Essex Wildlife Trust but owned by Vicky and Joe Backhouse, who rent the cottage for holiday lets and as I understand control access.
posted via 2.28.231.198 user MTD.
message 43020 - 10/18/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
All I'm aware of is that there is an annual open day when you can cross, and this is always reported locally as if it is the only occasion you can do so without permission.
posted via 2.28.231.198 user MTD.
message 43019 - 10/18/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
To launch a dinghy on the Walton Backwaters...

I find that attending the annual 'Swamazons' race, run by the Old Gaffers Association, from Walton & Frinton Yacht Club is the best way. The club is open to all race entrants (a small fee to enter) and you get to see lots of beautiful old dinghies, plus safety boat cover as you race round the island.

If you are a member of a sailing club, a courtesy email to W&FYC will probably grant you permission to use their facilities as a visitor, for one day. You can only launch between mid and high tide though.

NOTE THAT THE CAR PARK NEAR THE CLUB WILL FLOOD AT HIGH TIDE! ASK WHERE IS SAFE TO PARK!

I have paid to launch a dinghy from Titchmarsh Marina too, which costs a little more than feels suitable (in my opinion). I suppose it is more geared up for yachts. There is a concrete slipway so you can launch at any state of the tide. The gates close at 5pm which might cut short your visit if intending to tow your dinghy away and the end of the day.
posted via 81.140.188.172 user Magnus.


message 43018 - 10/18/16
From: RichardG, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Mike, while the signing indicates that vehicles should not use the new stretch of Island Road on the mainland, it advises that it is, I think, a "permissive (or permitted) footpath", which is one that the landowner allows the public to use without it becoming a right of way. There is what looks as though it might have been a further notice board by the pillbox on the sea wall, but if so the board has vanished. So there is nothing visible on site that advises about requiring permission to cross the Red Sea on foot, or how to go about getting it.
posted via 77.44.122.220 user RichardG.
message 43017 - 10/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
You're right Richard, which in a way makes the suggestion even more strange. As SW centres on Kirby-le-Soken rather the Walton (other than getting the rudder repaired) the council are trying to exploit the connection - they attempt to in publicity material but are always vague so avoiding copyright and permissions from the literary executors!

Sounds like you had a good trip, I assume you're aware that to cross the Red Sea you have to have permission?

Sorry I can't help you with the sailing questions, I'm someone will!
posted via 95.150.15.47 user MTD.


message 43016 - 10/17/16
From: RichardG, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
I assume you mean opposite the church in Walton-on-the-Naze, rather than Kirby-le-Soken (which is, I think, where the Mastodon went for his supplies) ?
I paid my first-ever visit to Secret Water a couple of weeks ago, getting part-way across the Red Sea before I met the incoming tide and beat a retreat, and then walking along the sea wall to Witches Quay. We also had an excellent lunch at the Butt & Oyster. Sadly I was unable to find a way to get afloat on this trip. Does anyone know where the best place to launch a dinghy on the Walton Backwaters would be, and if fees are involved ? Or indeed, rather than towing my own boat across the country, does anyone hire out sailing dinghies on the Backwaters ?
posted via 77.44.122.220 user RichardG.
message 43015 - 10/12/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
I thought Secret Water was the only book to have maps within the story, rather than just endpapers.

Assuming that by "within the story" you're referring to physical position in the book, rather than the map being an object that is encountered by the characters in the story, such maps seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

My copy of S&A has a map of Wild Cat Island facing the first page of text, so part of the "front matter" but not strictly part of the endpapers.

PD has a map of Crab Island in amongst the text.

CC has a map of the River Bure in amongst the text.

WD has a chart of approches to Harwich in amongst the text.

B6 has a map of the Horning/Ranworth area in amongst the text.

ML has a map of the Three Islands, supposedly found aboard the Shining Moon, in amongst the text.

PM has a map of the area round Beckfoot in amongst the text.

GN has "Mac's chart of the cove" in amongst the text.
posted via 2.26.130.15 user eclrh.


message 43014 - 10/12/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
Yes, it's in the original WH hardback too. Quite obviously AR's own work.
posted via 141.0.15.34 user awhakim.
message 43013 - 10/11/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
Gosh! I did not remember that map at all! I thought Secret Water was the only book to have maps within the story, rather than just endpapers.

It looks like an AR original to me. Lettering and tree style matches the usual endpaper maps.
posted via 86.191.65.110 user Magnus.


message 43012 - 10/11/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Swallows, Amazons and Coots
Good point, I hadn't thought of that. At last a connection between AR and Hamlet!
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.
message 43011 - 10/11/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Swallows, Amazons and Coots
Some humour can be found in all the books, but to describe it as a major attraction is pushing it a bit. Would Lovelock regard Osric and the Gravediggers as a major attraction of Hamlet?
posted via 88.110.82.98 user Mike_Jones.
message 43010 - 10/11/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Swallows, Amazons and Coots
Julian Lovelock's academic study of AR's canon is a very welcome volume (and much anticipated by myself.) Further to my earlier comment on his chapter on CC it now seems from other chapters he sees every book as having comedy as a major attraction to readers of them.

As I commented before in relation to CC, I have never in any of my readings of AR over fifty odd years found the books to be humorous.

Yes there are occasional comic passages but these have always struck me as slightly laboured, and not of much importance. Nor in all the books recounting the creation of the books have I noticed any reference to the 'comedy' nature of them.

Am I alone in this?
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.


message 43009 - 10/11/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
My only Puffin paperback of the series is "Winter Holiday", which has (page 246) a map “Eskimo Settlements in the Sub-Arctic” No indication of artist. There is also a frontispiece two-page map “North Polar Expedition” with a note from Capt. Nancy Blackett. The book is shown as published by Puffin in 1968; reprinted 1972, 1974, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1982. NB: The author’s blurb on the back cover mentions the Hon. M.A. (Durham) which AR had asked Jonathan Cape not to mention.


posted via 203.96.137.211 user hugo.


message 43008 - 10/11/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Further to Duncan's observation see Magnus Smith's post from last December:


posted via 178.43.198.147 user Jock.
message 43007 - 10/10/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Thanks for that info, Duncan. It makes more sense that he used the name of boatyard owners for his central characters than an ex-wife who'd made his life pretty miserable!
posted via 86.156.107.0 user Tiss_Flower.
message 43006 - 10/09/16
From: Duncan, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
I suspect the Walker name came from Walkers Boatyard on Windermere (where he might have begun his voyage in Swallow on the day he began writing SA). So what is perhaps more significant is the possibility it didn't occur to him that it was his ex-wife's maiden name.
posted via 87.113.73.15 user Duncan.
message 43005 - 10/09/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Coot Club
I'm not sure about 'melodrama', but there are certainly comic moments in CC, e.g. "Don't catch a lobster!" And the description of William's inner thoughts in chapter 23. I have just read a Lutterworth Press interview with the author, and his reported views there seem very acceptable. But I have yet to tackle the book.
posted via 88.110.90.240 user Mike_Jones.
message 43004 - 10/09/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Coot Club
I've just read the chapter on CC in Julian Lovelock's 'Swallows, Amazons and Coots'

He describes the book as a "...comic melodrama..." (p92) and later states "Then the comedy of Chapter 23, 'William's Heroic Moment'..." (p99).

In my many readings of CC I've never found it 'comic'.

I well remember reading it the first time and being impressed by how, thanks to William, they are able to get supplies between the two boats and the method used (once again AR explaining how things work.)
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.


message 43003 - 10/07/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Wasn't it documented that AR was perfectly happy in the company of children, as long as everyone was doing what he wanted to do?

The story of the unwanted visit to a grumpy author (turkish slipper incident) is probably cited as an example of AR grumpiness. Worse is the documented fact that he wrote to a headmistress in Suffolk asking her to make the school children play quietly so they would not disturb his nearby home. But...

He invited George and Josephone Russell (teenagers) to crew his yacht on many occasions, he insisted small children start with cake when they visited his house for tea (leave bread to the end), and Dick/Desmond Kesall seem to have good memories of AR too; they never said he was a grump. Those are just a few examples I can think of.

As for Tabitha, it is said that Ivy dictated all the letters! Whilst Ivy probably did make matters worse, I think it fair to say AR was half to blame. Though in those days fathers did not have great relationships with daughters anyway. The era of "seen and not heard" was still upon the UK.
posted via 86.191.65.110 user Magnus.


message 43002 - 10/05/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
I don't know what lengths AT went to with regard to his daughter. Did he try to form a strong relationship but was rebuffed?

According to books I have read, "Dor-Dor" wrote to her and tried to keep close, but his poor relationship with Ivy Walker put the lid on that one.
After all, after the victory in the Alfred Douglas libel case, he went to Russia probably less to write "Old Peter's Russian Tales" than to escape Ivy. Of course he finished up staying rather longer than he'd intended and came back with Evgenia. But there seems little doubt that he was much affected by Tabitha taking her mother's 'side'.
posted via 90.255.45.151 user PeterC.


message 43001 - 10/04/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
I've always had the impression that AR was not overly keen on children. This isn't a criticism as I think the best writers of so-called children's books don't have to be - A.A. Milne, Kenneth Grahame, Lewis Carroll. Although these writers are said to have written their stories for specific children, I think they all, like AR, wrote for the child in themselves. Richmal Crompton is perhaps an exception. I believe she was a teacher. Did she have children? Is there a gender difference? Perhaps not as I'm not sure Enid Blyton particularly liked children.
Also I don't know what lengths AT went to with regard to his daughter. Did he try to form a strong relationship but was rebuffed? And is there any significance in his giving the Swallows his first wife's family name?
posted via 86.156.107.0 user Tiss_Flower.
message 43000 - 10/04/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
there is still something about Dorothea.

Oh certainly. I think that he wrote into her something of what he would have liked to experience with his daughter Tabitha. I'm as down on pop psychology as the next fellow (but isn't it fun?), however in this case his failure to keep a good relationship with his daughter must have been one of the catastrophes of his life, and at first creating Titty and later and more explicitly Dot, must have been cathartic for him, in the same way that writing the books themselves must have been a relief, along with the tension, and the Critic on the Hearth.
posted via 90.255.34.74 user PeterC.


message 42999 - 10/02/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Yes, it does seem that way from all I've read, but there is still something about Dorothea.
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.
message 42998 - 10/02/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Thanks Peter, interesting. I've heard of The Only Ones. The other band I'm aware of from the Bristol scene is Stackridge, but I suspect they are before the ones your talking about.
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.
message 42997 - 10/02/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
the more I read them there is something about Dorothea that in his writing indicates she has far more depth as a character than is ever revealed to us.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but I have always (since I was old enough to think in those terms) believed that the Callums are, between them, a combined self-portrait of AR. Dick the obsessive, scientific man, as AR was when young, and Dot a gentle satire of the Writer
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42996 - 10/02/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/mar/28/maria-mccormack-obituary

My muso friend and Powell co-appreciator is John Perry, lead guitarist with "The Only Ones" and, earlier, if you're aware of the Bristol scene, "The Rat Bites from Hell".
John is one of those punk musicians who loves cricket and good English. Altogether a splendid chap.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42995 - 10/02/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Peter, a fascinating post. I agree, the more I read them there is something about Dorothea that in his writing indicates she has far more depth as a character than is ever revealed to us.

Very off topic, can I be nosey and ask who the woman was? I cannot recall a recent passing of one that would fit your description.
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.


message 42994 - 10/02/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
How do others read the series? In bulk? Bite-size chunks?

68 years after first having Swallowdale read to me in a freezing cold (they all were) Victorian house, I "carry" them on an iPad Mini, that lives permanently in my pocket, and read them in bursts, favourite bits. PM tops, followed by WH and parts of WD. This is interspersed with my favourite "grown up" books, Anthony Powell's "Dance to the music of time".
Fascinating contrast in styles; Powell excessively florid, never use five words when ten will do, AR spare and elegant. But both powerfully evocative with vividly drawn characters. AR's best moment the revealing of the kinship of Nancy and the GA, Powell's characters working their way into real life in an extraordinary way- they really are people you've known and tendrils of that experience follow me throughout my otherwise totally non-mystic life (*). But then of course, I have always been in love with Dorothea. Really.
(*)AR exclusivists please skip this bit- it's about Powell.
The other day I went to Kensal Green crematorium, for the funeral of the partner of my rock'n roll Muso friend, a woman known internationally for her hedonism, who died asking for cognac. Afterwards he emailed me to recall a moment in Powell when the narrator encounters Sunny Farebrother, a "downy bird", on the Bakerloo, on the way back from Kensal Green, where he's been attending the funeral service for another character with a complicated part in the "Dance". They talk reflectively about him, and then the narrator gets off and as the train pulls away he sees, though the window, that Sunny has started to smile again. All fine and typical, but the "Powellite" syndrome manifested itself in our wondering, in emails, where Sunny would have got off the train. Sunny being a wealthy widower, we finally settled on Piccadilly, where he would be living in a set at the Albany. The Bakerloo stops there. A life experience confirmed- my friend and I both "know" Sunny Farebrother.
With AR, the "character" I feel I know best is AR himself.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42993 - 09/29/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: The spirit of Nancy lives on in Swindon!
And according to the newspaper article where I first came across this story, Daisy likes
'raft building, sailing and climbing trees'. As well as the AR link/coincidence(?)
do I detect some subtle Richard Jefferies influence? On the outskirts of Swindon is the
reservoir at Coate where Jefferies's Bevis had his adventures.
posted via 178.43.199.94 user Jock.
message 42992 - 09/29/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: The spirit of Nancy lives on in Swindon!
Quite right! But how interesting that the protester is Daisy.
posted via 2.29.89.21 user MTD.
message 42991 - 09/29/16
From: Jock, subject: The spirit of Nancy lives on in Swindon!
Daisy Edmonds blasts the supermarket for having contrasting slogans on their T-shirts for boys and girls.

While the boys’ shirts feature motifs like ‘Desert adventure awaits’, ‘Hero’ and ‘Think outside the box’, the girls’ tops say ‘Hey!’, ‘Beautiful’ and ‘I feel fabulous.’

"It’s unfair because everyone thinks girls should just be pretty and boys should just be adventurous."

Daisy then fills her arms with hangers from the boys’ section and puts them on the girls’ racks.


posted via 178.43.195.44 user Jock.
message 42990 - 09/27/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
Thanks Alan & Magnus. You are quite right to draw attention to the paperback versions. However when I looked on the shelves of a London bookshop at the beginning of the year, the hardback version still had the Spurrier endpaper.
I was just checking briefly to see if the dust jacket illustration vignettes had changed again. I did not check on how the impression list had changed.

posted via 80.189.180.240 user OwenRoberts.
message 42989 - 09/27/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
The Puffin maps were drawn by Juliet Renny. The full story is in Wayne Hammond's Bibliography. The changes were made by Evgenia, who wanted Penguin (and indeed Cape) to 'expunge from the book all work by Steven Spurrier'. She maintained AR had intended to redraw the maps himself before the Puffin edition, but was prevented by illness. He had done a sketch for a Wild Cat Island map in SD, and Renny used that as a basis.
Spurrier's map lives on, however, and is familiar to all members of TARS. It is used for the cover of Mixed Moss, their annual journal.
posted via 141.0.14.73 user awhakim.
message 42988 - 09/27/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Who drew the 1970 S&A Puffin paperback maps?
Change of topic: we're now on MAPS.

Owen said: Stephen Spurrier’s endpapers still adorn S&A – I wonder why they were never replaced?

This made me go check my shelves. The Puffin paperbacks of the 70s definitely had a re-drawn map, not Spurrier's, and the odd thing is that I don't think it is an AR map either!

The way in which woods are depicted with little trees are very Spurrier-like, totally different to the woods AR draws in the Swallowdale map (curvy shapes to denote multiple trees at once).

The second map which shows just Wild Cat Island has also been given the same treatment. They are both neater and sparser than Spurrier, though the lettering is not AR, and the compass rose is not how either of them would draw it.

Who is this mystery cartographer? The book's credits do not name him/her. It happened between 1966 and 1970 (Puffin only) according to the books I can lay my hands on.
posted via 86.191.65.110 user Magnus.


message 42987 - 09/27/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
AR wrote to Helene Carter several times, commenting favourably on her illustrations. It sounded very genuine. I wonder if there was ever any talk of using her US illustrations for the UK books?

I suppose that would have eaten into AR's royalties! One assumes AR earned more once Spurrier/Webb were abolished.


posted via 86.191.65.110 user Magnus.


message 42986 - 09/26/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
I first read the S&A series from a new top floor flat (we didn't have penthouses in those days) between Clapham & Streatham. Viewed from the terrace there was an interesting view of bombed out buildings to the rear.
The terrace was surrounded by a very low parapet wall about 18 inches high with no handrails. I could take a deck chair out there to read. However I used to become alarmed when our tabby cat (a grown up Sinbad) used to patrol the parapet wall.
In those days, books I had not been given were sourced from the Clapham Public Library.
I have reread the books many times over the years, gradually collecting more varieties. I have realised that the illustrations do affect the atmosphere of the books. I wonder if I would have read them all, if they had been illustrated by Stephen Spurrier or Clifford Webb.
Spurrier had a more “Water Babies” approach to the illustrations whilst Webb seemed to draw vertically rather than horizontally and lost the serenity and space of the AR drawings.
Helene Carter who illustrated most of the early US books in the AR series, for Lippincott the publishers, seemed to capture the spirit of the books well. Her endpapers, usually included in the dust jackets were very good and in my view excelled those of AR. Stephen Spurrier’s endpapers still adorn S&A – I wonder why they were never replaced?

posted via 80.189.180.240 user OwenRoberts.
message 42985 - 09/26/16
From: Patrick Fox, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
Used to read them as "comfort reading" whenever the mood took me. More recently I've enjoyed having the excuse of reading them aloud to my own children. As to where, we've managed those readings in reasonably appropriate settings from time to time. Last year I timed it so we were reading Coot Club while, as a family, camping on two open boats on the Broads. I read them Great Northern one summer sailing trip in the Hebrides. And we've managed several of the Lakes books while holidaying in the Lakes. And I remember reading We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea while anchored, not on the east coast, but at least in Salcombe one summer. There is a special something about reading the books in the same sort of setting as they're describing.

Cheers
Patrick
posted via 185.58.164.43 user PJF.


message 42984 - 09/24/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
This is where I get slightly obsessive, I've got copies of them all in hardback (nearly all of them in various editions) and all the Puffin and original Red Fox paperbacks, and I've got reading copies in paperback.

It would be nice to read the hardbacks all the time but too heavy for reading in bed!
posted via 2.28.82.29 user MTD.


message 42983 - 09/24/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
That's impressive, Mike. I read them in sequence though I don't really know why as they can all stand alone. Like you, I read WH round Christmas, and I try to read the others at the time of year they're set. Although it's not my favourite, there's always a special sense of anticipation when I start SA and read that familiar opening: "Roger, aged seven, and no longer the youngest of the family. . ." What a feeling to know you've got all 12 books ahead of you. And it has to be the Jonathan Cape hardbacks. too.
posted via 31.51.188.150 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42982 - 09/24/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: where to enjoy AR
I read nearly all of them at least once in a year, and WH near to Christmas - still my favourite.

This year I've read all of them as you would carry out academic reading, noting references, how characters are built up, pointers to how they will be once the books are over.

Both ways change my view of a some of them, WDMTGTS and PM in particular.
posted via 2.28.82.29 user MTD.


message 42981 - 09/23/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: where to enjoy AR
Spent yesterday morning sitting in some public gardens in Lewes, listening to Gabriel Woolf's brilliant reading of GN. What a way to see out summer! Same next week if the weather agrees. Can't think of a better way to while away the time.
How do others read the series? In bulk? Bite-size chunks? As a reward or on a regular basis? Just curious.
posted via 31.51.188.150 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42980 - 09/20/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
And in fact every one of Ransome's major characters (SA&D) get an opportunity to demonstrate leadership, frequently despite obstacles, and do.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 42979 - 09/20/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Dot is a wonderful character, isn't she? Perhaps the most "girly" of AR's girls, but that doesn't mean she's not of equal standing. Her imagination might baffle the others at times, but she's the one the others look to in BS for leadership in the investigation.
posted via 31.51.188.150 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42978 - 09/20/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Nancy is a fine character, but what interests me most is how he gets Roger so right; interested in steam ships as well as sail, so viewed askance by the others in SA, but the real Roger Altounyan later becomes a pilot instructor with the RAF, and a researcher who pioneers Intal and the spinhaler.
The other really interesting character(s) are Dick and Dot. I think that, between them, they are AR. Like every proper person, I am of course in love with Dot, but she (satirically, gently) represents AR and all authors, and Dick is the obsessive and scientific side. I also suspect that Mrs Barrable is his mum, although none of this is direct, one-for-one. He's an author, and the only place they really exist is in his head, but the coloration is there.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42977 - 09/19/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
what is also so subtle about AR's depiction of Nancy is her somewhat rough and ready "sensitive" side. In PP, shw doesn't push Titty when she's distresssd about the dowsing but tries to do it herself and, despite calling Peggy a galoot with every second breath, she reassures her in thunderstorms. All done in her inimitable way. She's forceful but no bully.
posted via 31.51.188.150 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42976 - 09/18/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Nancy has the confidence of being on 'Home Turf' in the Lakes books, but is less certain of her position in SW. It is part of AR's artistry to convey that hesitancy without actually writing it in.
David
posted via 137.147.155.48 user David.
message 42975 - 09/18/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
I find Nancy least appealing in SW, but she is marvellous in PM.
posted via 88.105.80.185 user Mike_Jones.
message 42974 - 09/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Mr. Thewlis, your bicycle-tracks have been noted in the vicinity. Be very afraid.......
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42973 - 09/18/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Very hot green paint.
posted via 47.208.67.174 user dthewlis.
message 42972 - 09/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
And remember in GN 'Somehow, with the return of Nancy the gloom that had settled on the Sea Bear had lifted'.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42971 - 09/18/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
"one of the great female characters of ALL literature" I agree with Tiss on this, but you have to admit that if we include all adult literature as well, that makes the competition much stiffer. Nancy is up against the likes of Anna Karenina and Anne of Green Gables, to name but two. The point about Nancy surely is that she is not just a loud-voiced tomboy, but has a sort of 'spiritual' existence which pervades all the AR books, even those in which she does not actually appear. The beauty of AR's writing is that he never painstakingly describes Nancy - instead he just tells us what she does and what she says. Titty's exclamation at the start of Pigeon Post: "It's Nancy . . .she's beginning something already" is one of the most instantly thrilling sentences I have ever read at the start of a book.
posted via 86.182.41.233 user Peter_H.
message 42970 - 09/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
I will explain it all to you behind the bikeshed at some point. Bring green paint.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42969 - 09/18/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
I just love the description "this JG person" and that name's going to stick. I was only moderately offended by the 'Gollum' tag, but what worries me far more is TJGP's apparent suggestion that AR's characters can be mucked about with to suit whatever fashion is current. I should add here that TJGP is very much an "AR specialist" herself, having lectured and written about AR in expert style for many years. What's going on? I ask myself. And what on earth is all this "Gotcha - one to me" business all about? Is it one of Nancy's ciphered messages?
posted via 86.182.41.233 user Peter_H.
message 42968 - 09/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Mike Field - Peter H and I are very old friends and have been affectionately trading insults for decades. Apologies to outsiders! And yah boo to Peter as always.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42967 - 09/18/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
A fine analysis of Nancy, Peter. My only quibble? She's surely one of the great female characters of ALL literature. A role model for every generation and for boys as well as girls.
posted via 31.51.188.150 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42966 - 09/17/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Thank you Peter. Again you saved me writing that myself.

Did you find that 'Gollum' reference as insulting as I did? Or do you happen to know this JG person, and it was more of a private joke between you?
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42965 - 09/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Once again, I agree Peter. The older I get with each reading I admire Nancy more and more as a character. Once of my favourite scenes is when she sorts out Sammy for being 'rude' to John in SA (there has to be quite a back story for AR to write such a wonderful verbal demolishing of an adult by a 'child'!)
posted via 2.28.84.54 user MTD.
message 42964 - 09/17/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Film in North America was Re: Review on IMDb
All I can find for a release date in North America is "2016".

I suspect they are evaluating how well it did and the reaction in the UK and Ireland before deciding when and how extensively to release it here. They may decide to go straight to DVD if the omens are not good. Even if it does get released here it may only be in a few cinemas not widespread.

I suspect I may end up seeing it on a Region 2 DVD import played on my computer!
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 42963 - 09/17/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Gotcha! 1 to me.
We all look forward with enthusiasm to your response when you've seen the film.
It's true that in the film Nancy is the only child significantly changed - but the filmgoing children all rave almost solely about her. Agree that that may be irrelevant to you and other AR specialists.
Re D of E, Mike Dennis is totally right that it's more organised and not at all the only or even desired answer, but as a lonely adolescent (my sister had discovered boys) I could only play around in the fields imagining stories; spurred and aided by the D of E Award, I researched and carried out a 2-week youth-hostelling trip (recruiting a friend eventually), which gave me the chance of making decisions, sorting out food, exploring etc rather than just going home at the end of the day.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42962 - 09/17/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
I agree that the D of E Award Scheme is admirable, but we're getting off the point. I don't think that it is Gollum-ish to believe that Nancy Blackett's character should not be distorted for filmic purposes (if in fact it has been distorted - I have yet to see the film). If Nancy has been portrayed as 'sulky', then that is the exact opposite of the Nancy created by AR - the true Nancy is breezy, optimistic, impetuous, resilient, and she would make short work of anyone near her who was sulking. She is a finely calibrated character, and is AR's major creation. She stands in British children's literature as a classic powerful creation, along with figures such as Long John Silver or Just William, and of course she is also female. To 'adapt' Nancy into a whining teenager is to dismantle the whole of the Swallows & Amazons stories - they just won't work. To justify this on the basis that it might get a few children camping is just not on. (By the way, TARS is irrelevant here.)

posted via 86.182.41.233 user Peter_H.
message 42961 - 09/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Oh No, No!

Perhaps I was lucky, I grew up in the countryside and just did stuff (though admittedly not camping or sailing.) The idea of it all being formalised (D of E, Guides, Scouts etc) would have been totally off-putting.

One of the great delights of AR's works is that the children have their adventures with almost no adult interference or supervision, and the few adults involved let them get on with it (yes, adults arrange things in the background but this is, thankfully, minimal.) AR seemed to understand this, and had an empathy with children when he became an adult.
posted via 2.28.84.54 user MTD.


message 42960 - 09/16/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Ditto.

posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.
message 42959 - 09/16/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Adam, Do we need to fly over to Britain to see this film? Will it only arrive here in some Amazon pirated DVD?
posted via 184.151.36.6 user rlcossar.
message 42958 - 09/16/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Well, it was a combination of Swallows & Amazons and D of E Award (I got to Silver) that did it for me. But we're talking the l960s, and the alternative was boredom and whingeing to parents rather than probing deep into the unsuitable internet.
From the TARS website, 'The Society exists to celebrate his life and to promote his interests in exploring, camping, sailing, navigation, leadership, literature and much more.' But there are AR enthusiasts who aren't TARS, and I think vice versa.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42957 - 09/16/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
it's to do with getting children out and camping and trying things for themselves

Like a sort of Duke of Edinburgh's Award?
posted via 86.182.41.233 user Peter_H.


message 42956 - 09/16/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Hello Gollum -
My thought is that it's to do with getting children out and camping and trying things for themselves, and seeing magical stuff beyond a screen - in fact the film should be prescribed on the NHS; if film-makers make a profit - well, so do I (sometimes) with my work.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42955 - 09/16/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Very well put Peter, my feelings entirely.
posted via 95.145.229.223 user MTD.
message 42954 - 09/16/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
“New Nancy Interpretation”

I think it should be borne in mind that “Swallows & Amazons” is not a play – it is a novel, which is a very different animal. With a play, be it Shakespeare or whoever, all you need do is stick to the script, and then you can do what you like with the setting, the costumes, have women playing male roles etc etc, but it is considered a no-no to interfere with the script written by the playwright. With a novel, the whole book is in effect the “script” and therefore you should be faithful to it. A “new Nancy interpretation” is, to my mind, a perversion of what Ransome intended. He did not write Nancy as a “sulky pre-teenager” and therefore you should not portray Nancy as such. The fact that it may appeal more to present-day children (and thereby increase box-office appeal) is to my mind irrelevant. I am not concerned with film-maker’s profits.

And I am not concerned with the idea that such a portrayal will generate interest in the original book – it may do or it may not do, but Ransome’s work is not a religion (though heaven knows, people have behaved as if it is) There is no divine duty on us to spread it at all costs, other than by simply encouraging people to read the books. Those books are there, in print, with their own particular magic, for people who want them and that is how it should stay. If no one wants them any more, then that would be very sad, but, well, that's just too bad. I think there will always be readers of Ransome, but I like the idea of the books being a perpetual semi-secret cult, going from age to age, each age finding what they want in them, without “re-interpretation”.

posted via 86.182.41.233 user Peter_H.


message 42953 - 09/16/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: New Disney movie gets it right
It seems they've picked Hawaii and decided to focus on SAILING! Hurrah!


posted via 86.191.65.110 user Magnus.
message 42952 - 09/16/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
It occurs to me that the film could be considered as similar to Peter Duck in that it might have been a tale made up by the Swallows and Amazons and Captain Flint in later years, in a wherry or round the camp-fire, using the real(ish) children but adding more drama to please Roger. The Russians are modern Black Jakes. So a fiction within a fiction....
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42951 - 09/15/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Of the (currently) eighteen reviews on that site, ten are broadly in favour of the film and eight not. I haven't bothered to analyse any of the reviews in detail, but a 5:4 split in favour sounds as though people consider the film a success, but only just.

Is that the definition of a B Grade film?
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42950 - 09/15/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Had a look at these reviews too, and again I was very struck by the love-or-hate divide: of the twelve, nine gave 5 out of 5, three gave 2 out of 5.
The reviewer that you cite hasn't clocked that the new Nancy interpretation is what appeals to children, not to the (evidently adult) reviewer.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42949 - 09/15/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
Thanks for this link. Interesting split between ecstatic reviews (usually from people taking children) and negative. I notice that the one young reviewer, hollyscott, picks out the Amazons rather than the Swallows: yep, just as I said in an earlier post - adults love the Walkers, children love the Amazons - very thoughtful casting.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42948 - 09/15/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Review on IMDb
There are reviews of the film on the amazon.co.uk listing for the forthcoming DVD release (12 at the time of writing) one is particularly scathing and includes the following -

"... [the] characters were changed to suit modern adult ideas of childhood - no longer are the Walkers the capable mutually supportive team who know how to avoid the dangers of jibing when sailing, how to cook over an open fire, how to fish and prepare their catch etc - now they bicker, whinge and blame each other when things go wrong. Only Tatty (Titty) comes near the original and even she screams unnecessarily! Nancy (wouldn't children understand the "pirates are ruthless" joke these days?) has been turned into a sulky pre-teenager instead of a feisty Amazon ..."
posted via 95.149.130.98 user MTD.


message 42947 - 09/15/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Review on IMDb
I found this somewhat encouraging review of the film on on IMDb, I have posted the link you have to scroll down to the one by Sara.

A couple of quotes.

"Having never read the book and despite having bought a copy to do so before watching the film, my daughter grabbed the book off me and avidly read it before I had chance!"

"I now need to revisit the lakes and remind my children adventures don't start on your phone! My daughter who had read the book also loved the film."

posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42946 - 09/11/16
From: Mik, subject: Re: The 'My Word' stories - was 'Secret Water' News
Sorry, the link's not working. But you can see it here --

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Utter-My-Word-Collection/dp/B002SK5K2I

As I said, though, my copy is a 1983 hard-cover.
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42945 - 09/11/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: The 'My Word' stories - was 'Secret Water' News
This particular volume does indeed have an Introduction and it is to this omnibus volume itself, not just to the first book ('Kayak') of the four that it contains. (None of the individual books has its own introduction, at least not in this volume -- each just dives straight into the stories.)

The introduction commences --

Readers who have never heard the radio programme in which these stories were first brought forth are due a word of explanation.

and concludes --

... for a great many years now we have been faced each week with the agony of having to knock out a reasonably coherent story based upon a given quotation -- however unpromising the quotation's syllables appeared at first sight.
This volume is a final medley of the squeaks produced by the pips being thus squeezed.

In the body, the authors mention that in the very first show the two quotations used were "Let not poor Nellie starve", and "Dead, dead, and never called me Mother!", and I guess that's what you might have been remembering. All in all, I think my omnibus volume is the one you've been thinking of.

(My copy looks like this one, a 1984 reprint, but without the white pull-quote or logo at the bottom.)

posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42944 - 09/11/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: The 'My Word' stories - was 'Secret Water' News
That sounds like the one I was thinking of; page count's about right, too. Most of my paper books are still in storage. I believe one of the various volumes included, as part of the forward, an explanation of how the stories got started (although that one may have been "Dead. Dead. And never called me 'Mother'!")
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42943 - 09/11/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
No one really expects films to completely mimic the original books, Maybe the newly interested will like the books just as much on their own
posted via 184.151.36.6 user rlcossar.
message 42942 - 09/11/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
The same is true of Hampshire libraries. All the books are on loan or reserved, but the DVD of the 1974 film has been missing from Lymington branch for over a year. That's Sophie's local library!
posted via 141.0.14.146 user awhakim.
message 42941 - 09/11/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
Why is Mrs Walker Australian?
Why is Captain Flint fat?
Where are the Amazon's masks?
Who is Titty?
posted via 95.150.15.238 user MTD.
message 42940 - 09/10/16
From: Mike Field, subject: The 'My Word' stories - was 'Secret Water' News
A bit of research from my end reveals that in fact the title of the book I have (a hard-cover) is The Complete And Utter "My Word" Collection, published by Methuen in 1983.

On the flyleaf, books already having been published are shown as --

You Can't Have Your Kayak And Heat It -- 1973
Upon My Word -- 1974
Take My Word For It -- 1978
Oh, My Word -- 1980

and also The "My Word" Stories, 1976, incorporating the first two above.

My (1983) version purports to contain the stories from all four books above, and lists them in the Contents pages under those book titles. The page count is 397 pages. The contents for each book listed in my copy amount to, respectively, 31, 28, 30, and 30 stories. Most stories run onto three pages. But nowhere in the book is the 'Kayak' shown. :-(

Perhaps The Utterly Complete "My Word" Stories is a still-later version, with yet more stories?
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42939 - 09/10/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Film taking fans back to book?
I'm afraid there are going to be a lot of disappointed readers --

Where are the spies?
Where are the guns?
Where's the train?
Where's that sea-plane?

:(
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42938 - 09/10/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Film taking fans back to book?
Just checked my county library availability of S&A. All copies in every format out on loan, overdue or ordered. Fantastic.
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42937 - 09/09/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
There are actually several. If I remember correctly, the most complete one is The Utterly Complete "My Word" Stories, but even that one omits some. So don't grab the first "Complete My Word Stories" you see - check the page counts (all I've seen have one story per page, so a page count will give you a good idea of the degree of completeness).
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42936 - 09/08/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Graeme Kendall solo yachtsman
Yes we consider the Artic Islands as a part of Canada. Global warming and the loss of artic ice is opening it all up and who has the resources to police it all.
posted via 184.151.36.6 user rlcossar.
message 42935 - 09/08/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Thanks for the tip Mike; I didn't know that there was a book of the 'My Word' stories. I'll have to go and look for it.
posted via 121.214.155.96 user David.
message 42934 - 09/08/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Yes, one of Frank Muir's 'My Word' stories was certainly about leaving no tern unstoned. (At this distance in time I don't remember the Tintern Abbey bit, but he was certainly capable of it and I'm sure you're right.)

I've always found it odd that his story about not having your kayak and heating it was used as the title of the Complete Collection of My Word stories, and yet that particular story was not included in the book....
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42933 - 09/08/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
'Swallows and Amazons' as a shorthand phrase for good parenting and bringing-up of children

I agree with JG that the reference here to Swallows & Amazons is ironic, but this usage is not new - it has gone into the modern language. I know of a married couple who split up - they had children, and they were both remarried to people who also had children from previous marriages (this situation is by no means unique). About two years ago one of the mothers described to me the awkward confusion at holiday weekends, when she hardly knew which child was which and groups of siblings were bussed all over the place and hurriedly handed over in doorways because their parent did not want to meet a former spouse. She sighed and said "It's hardly Swallows and Amazons, is it?"
posted via 86.182.41.104 user Peter_H.


message 42932 - 09/07/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Thanks Tiss, sums up my view entirely.
posted via 95.146.63.143 user MTD.
message 42931 - 09/07/16
From: Claire, subject: Tern book
I have not seen my copy of that book in years, but I remember that my favorite illustrations were Slattern and Tern catholic. Anyone who likes clever puns should try to find a copy of "A Book of Terns".
posted via 68.117.20.247 user Claire_Morgan.
message 42930 - 09/07/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
I believe it was Frank Muir who did a wonderful riff on the subject as one of his My Word stories, even working in Tintern Abbey.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42929 - 09/07/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: S&A is hip?
I was in the Soho Hotel (London) today, which gives the impression of being new and trendy. I was delighted to find that the lift is decorated with several display frames of Puffin Book covers. TWO frames contain the cover of SA.
In the Gents, the display was of the new ironic Ladybird "The Hipster" book.
Meanwhile, Random House have issued a new paperback of SA with a cover derived from the film poster.
posted via 141.0.14.218 user awhakim.
message 42928 - 09/07/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
:-) [smiley icon]. Of course you'll hate part of the film, but I do guarantee that you'll feel warm all over about some of the enchanting sequences of the old-fashioned children sailing and camping; lovely casting, especially the two youngest.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42927 - 09/07/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Now I can accuse myself of being unclear. I'll watch the film when it comes to TV as, yes, pretty much anything that keeps AR in the public eye is worthwhile - but I won't go to see the film. Even that's disingenuous as I don't go to any films! Also hypocritical as I'll be doing what I've more or less condemned a TV reviewer for! Can I get much worse?
My only excuse is that my love and respect for AR means that I bridle if I think people play fast and loose with his work, especially if it's dismissed as old fashioned children's stories. I'm glad If I'm proved wrong by the film and an AR-friendly journalist.

posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42926 - 09/07/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Yes, I do agree that it's an unclear sentence, perhaps written in haste, and the reviewer has certainly risked the ironic point not being taken by her readers. I did want to absolve her, though, of any ignorant attribution of speeding cars and grandmothers' doorsteps to the S&A canon. As another commentator has said, at least we can take pleasure in the fact that this reviewer among many other writers uses 'Swallows and Amazons' as a shorthand phrase for good parenting and bringing-up of children.
In the new film, incidentally (which I know you're not going to see), there are some lovely exchanges, e.g. between Mrs. Walker and Mrs. Jackson, on wholesome hands-off parenting. And in the film there is some arguing among the Swallows! Most realistic.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42925 - 09/07/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Perhaps it's the construction of the quoted sentence since it seemed to me as if the reviewer thinks the children in S&A are dumped on their grandmother's doorstep. That's what I was reacting to. Perhaps I shouldn't, not having read the review.
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42924 - 09/07/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
A most likely explanation Peter, the new film has maybe caused some to re-think their view of AR's work (rather than just assuming!)
posted via 95.146.63.205 user MTD.
message 42923 - 09/07/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Tiss - the reviewer's sentence about grandmothers and S&A is IRONIC. What she is saying is that the mother claims to be trying to bring up her children as she was, i.e. in a good S&A style, but that in Motherland we can see that in practice she is INSTEAD yelling at them and dumping them on their grandmother's doorstep. The reviewer is assuming that Sunday Times readers, like the reviewer herself, know what the S&A reference invokes and so will mentally insert '(NOT)' after 'just like they do'. She is being ironic!! and is contrasting the S&A way of life with the speeding car/ grandmother/ doorstep scenario enacted by the mother.
I do hope that this clarifies the sentence for you. No way is she suggesting that grandmother's doorsteps come into S&A - she is saying precisely the opposite, correctly using S&A as an example of good upbringing in CONTRAST to the Motherland approach.
End of literary-criticism piece!
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42922 - 09/07/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
It would be great if the reviewer decided to check that her S&A reference was correct, went back to the source, then read all twelve (instead of watching TV?!).
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42921 - 09/07/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Should be - Grandparents
Active grandparents in the Walker/Blackett/Callum families might have been expected to play a role, given that only two of the six parents are available during the school holidays (one dead, one at sea, two digging), but available grandparents cosseting their grandchildren would have got in the way of the plot. Mrs. W's parents would be in Australia, anyway, and perhaps Asian Flu carried off the others along with Bob Blackett.

AR's comments on his grandfathers in Chapter 1 of his Autobiography are affectionate but critical. Perhaps he didn't see them as great role models, though the Australian connection on his mother's side is interesting.
posted via 88.110.95.28 user Mike_Jones.


message 42920 - 09/06/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Graeme Kendall solo yachtsman
Solo yachtsman Graeme Kendall from Christchurch, New Zealand has just published a book on his solo yachting “To the Ice and Beyond”. He sailed the Northwest Passage in 2010 (after failing in 2005) so was the 140th vessel since Roald Amundsen did it in 1903-06. He was the first to do it solo and non-stop, in a record 12 days. Unlike 2005, it was mostly ice-free in 2010. His book has advice on planning a serious (solo) sailing expedition: Rules No 1 to 10 are “Don’t fall overboard”. So he always peed into a chemical toilet, not off the back of the yacht (Too dangerous). And describing an Atlantic cyclone: Plan A: weather it out; Plan B: run away to Plan F: abandon ship .. because that’s the point when your’e f......”

NB: Canada regards the Northwest Passage as Canadian waters, though the United States regards it as international waters, and did not seek permission for sending the Coastguard supply ship “Polar Sea” through it in 1985.

posted via 202.49.156.36 user hugo.
message 42919 - 09/06/16
From: John Wilson, subject: The Duke of Westminster on "Swallows ans Amazons"
Swallows and Amazons: Gerald Grosvenor the 6th Duke of Westminster (died August 9) was bought up in Ulster, living on the only inhabited island in Lough Erne. He was closest to a keeper, not his “somewhat distant” parents and reflected that “My childhood was the nearest thing to Swallows and Amazons one could possibly imagine .... There wasn’t one unhappy moment. I thought I’d spend the rest of my life there.” But at 15 his father inherited the title and they moved to Eaton Hall in Cheshire (quoted in the Times obituary; reprnted in the Dominion Post, Wellington NZ which is owned by Fairfax Media, so uses overseas obituaries from the Times, the Telegraph Group or the Washington Post).
posted via 202.49.156.36 user hugo.
message 42918 - 09/06/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
The illustrations are all of the phrases of course. So you can just imagine "left tern", "right tern", and "comintern" all dressed appropriately. "Tern of the Century" is of course on the cover of Time magazine. And "no tern left unstoned" is what you might expect. IMO the author and illustrator did justice to the opportunity.

posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42917 - 09/06/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Should be - Grandparents
When Roger asks Old Billy about Young Billy "Is he your son?" Old Billy says that he’s "got sons and grandsons of his own": (SA13). Slater Bob says "My father was a miner before me, and his father before him" (PP3). And as mentioned the Turner grandparents: Maria Turner writes to Mary (Molly) Blackett of "the tact that was characteristic of your grandfather" (PM30).
posted via 202.49.156.36 user hugo.
message 42916 - 09/06/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
"No Right Tern" -- are you familiar with "The Book of Terns"? Every page a similar pun with wonderful illustrations. But I digress.

Well, as a digression, a pleasant one.
But with the rich tapestry of English homonyms, it seems pretty inevitable.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42915 - 09/06/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
I wonder if the reviewer is riding on the publicity due to the film, thinking of the wrong book, misremembering S&A, or not very good at research. Or does a grandmother pop up in the film? All in all, not very reassuring.

Don't you think that maybe it's just shorthand for "left to their own devices"? If so, it's probably a tribute to the reach of AR's stories that they finish up in a reviewer's kitbag?

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42914 - 09/06/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Nancy's and Peggy's great-grandfather is mentioned by the GA in her letter to Mrs Blackett at the end of PM.
posted via 95.145.225.158 user eclrh.
message 42913 - 09/06/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Tiss - a quick google shows that the review is of Motherland on BBC2; the reference to S&A is a passing one re the book (not film), referring it seems to the mother in Motherland's desire to bring up her children nannyless as she was, which the reviewer compares (yelled at in speeding car/ dumped on doorstep) with what perhaps a mother might dream of doing with her children (S&A). Nothing to do with the film!
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42912 - 09/06/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
Good point about missing grandparents. On that front generally, I always feel how poignant it is that the Amazons' father is dead. How lucky they are to have a first-class certificated uncle, even if one largely absent. The new film shows touchingly the tenderness between grumpy Uncle Jim and the girls.
PS Did you know that 'first-class certificated' appears in Jude the Obscure (p123 in my edition)?
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42911 - 09/06/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: Should be - Strange Comment
I wonder if the reviewer is riding on the publicity due to the film, thinking of the wrong book, misremembering S&A, or not very good at research. Or does a grandmother pop up in the film? All in all, not very reassuring.
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42910 - 09/06/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
"No Right Tern" -- are you familiar with "The Book of Terns"? Every page a similar pun with wonderful illustrations. But I digress.
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42909 - 09/06/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Should be - Strange Comment
Sorry everyone, filled in the boxes the wrong way!
posted via 95.149.130.12 user MTD.
message 42908 - 09/06/16
From: Strange Comment!, subject: Mike Dennis
A new comedy starts on BBC2 TV tonight at 10.00pm called 'Motherland'.

In a positive preview in The Sunday Times Culture magazine Victoria Segal says of the main character who wants to bring up her children as she was

"That means being yelled at in a speeding car before being dumped on their grandmother's doorstep, just like they do in Swallows and Amazons."

It also made me think that there are no mention of any grandparents in the books, just aunts and uncles.
posted via 95.149.130.12 user MTD.


message 42907 - 09/05/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Lapwing Lane?

"No Right Tern"?
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42906 - 09/05/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
I rather fancy "Mastodon Mansions" - good serve.
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42905 - 09/05/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 Film Score
There's a detailed review of the new film score on http://swallowsandamazons.info/2016/09/04/swallows-and-amazons-soundtrack-review-movie-music-uk/.
What/who, BTW, is swallowsandamazons.info? No clue on the website. Very mysterious.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42904 - 09/05/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: AR the angler
I meant someone who has no interest in angling. I have some friends who have, but I tried it in 1942, caught nothing, and gave up. I do agree that we ought to hope children would want to try, but I don't set a good example.

Do you think it might be a generational thing? My dad was a very keen fisherman when he was young. He would tell me about living by the Saone, in France, a great green lazy river, spending happy hours fishing. But I was a happy post-Blitz Londoner and although I could see his fondness for the memory, it never attracted me. Sitting on a river bank watching a float didn't cut it compared to playing on the local bomb site- a magic place, full of mystery and treasure among the bomb weed.
Much later (a decade later) I stayed with a school friend whose father was a keen fisherman. I got reasonably good at casting a line across a river (on the Isle of Wight, I seem to remember). But I never caught anything, and I realised anyway that this wasn't the point. The point was the river, and the quiet company. Still not for me.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42903 - 09/04/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Plenty of boats to name streets after
posted via 184.151.36.165 user rlcossar.
message 42902 - 09/04/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
So what's wrong with Daisy Lane or Dee Place. They probably wouldn't get many takers for homes on Dum Square, I'll admit.
posted via 23.31.108.73 user Jon.
message 42901 - 09/04/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
So what's wrong with Daisy Lane or Dee Place. They probably wouldn't get many takers for homes on Dum Square, I'll admit.
posted via 23.31.108.73 user Jon.
message 42900 - 09/04/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR the angler
Fear not, I've never bought anything from that monster nor do I intend to. My copy came via one of that year's REAL Amazon subscribers. Looking at my copy now, I see it was 2011.
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42899 - 09/04/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: AR the angler
I didn't think I was being ambiguous, but I meant someone who has no interest in angling. I have some friends who have, but I tried it in 1942, caught nothing, and gave up. I do agree that we ought to hope children would want to try, but I don't set a good example.
I am intrigued to know how you got your copy of Fair Cops. I hope not from amazon.co.uk where it's on offer second-hand for £145. You can get a new copy for £33, and that includes a year's subscription to TARS.
posted via 141.0.14.146 user awhakim.
message 42898 - 09/04/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
I was wondering something similar, and knowing how they run things none of them will have read the book anyway!
posted via 95.149.130.12 user MTD.
message 42897 - 09/04/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: 'Secret Water' News
Presumably the surnames? Titty Terrace, Susan Street, Roger Road, Mastodon Mansions, etc. might not appeal to all buyers.
posted via 92.25.156.231 user Mike_Jones.
message 42896 - 09/04/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR the angler
Very interesting observation about the drop in subscriptions for "Fair Cops", going some way to proving that we are less keen on AR the angler. Does the film have the fishing episode at all? If we AR enthusiasts hope that children will be encouraged to sail after seeing the film and, more importantly, reading the book(s), would we hope they took up fishing too? Probably not. There might well be modern concerns about a child alone on a river bank for hours at a time. Still I feel that something would be missing from the total AR experience.
I agree that some of his fishing articles have been a good read for this non-angler too but, likewise, not the statistics.
I'm not clear though, Alan. Are you ardent in not fishing or armchair fishing?
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42895 - 09/04/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: 'Secret Water' News
As a resident of 'the town' in SW I notice the local newspaper has reported that Tendring District Council is considering the following -

'STREETS on a new housing estate could be named after characters in Secret Water - a book by Swallows and Amazons author Arthur Ransome.'

The development of house and shops is on the site of an old caravan park (for those that know the area more or less opposite the church.) They are also considering using the names of the islands in the Backwaters.
posted via 95.149.130.12 user MTD.


message 42894 - 09/04/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands- hotting up.
Surely to say that things are hotting up, in the context of anything competitive, is still common parlance?

I'm not sure I ever used the expression myself, but can't imagine a time when I wouldn't have known at once what it meant. It's such a clear image, it must have been around for centuries.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42893 - 09/03/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
The term "hotted up" has certainly been in use, in my family, in Australia, for over a century. Whether my forebears invented it themselves, or imported it from the UK back in the mid-1800s, I have no idea.
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.
message 42892 - 09/03/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: AR the angler
"As an ardent non-fisherman myself, what I find surprising is that almost all his articles are good reading even for an outsider."

... as distinct from the fisherman's bible, Isaak Walton's 'The Compleat Angler' which, to this ardent non-fisherman at least, is about the dullest book ever written.
posted via 124.171.144.133 user mikefield.


message 42891 - 09/03/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
Surely to say that things are hotting up, in the context of anything competitive, is still common parlance?
posted via 92.25.156.231 user Mike_Jones.
message 42890 - 09/03/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
Surely to say that things are hotting up, in the context of anything competitive, is still common parlance?
posted via 92.25.156.231 user Mike_Jones.
message 42889 - 09/03/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
"Hotted up" was common parlance among my parents, aunts and uncles and their neighbours.
posted via 2.28.193.31 user eclrh.
message 42888 - 09/03/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: AR the angler
I'm not sure that AR enthusiasts are on the whole very keen on the fishing articles. Certainly there was a sharp drop (20%) in the number of subscriptions for Fair Cops compared with AR's Foreign Legion the previous year. On the other hand, fishers with a sense of history greatly revere AR's memory.
The first AR fishing collection was Rod and Line (1929). AR on Fishing (1994) was an anthology put together by Jeremy Swift, who spoke at the TARS Literary Weekend in 1993. In Fair Cops we tried to collect all the articles together that hadn't been reprinted in the earlier books. You will find a complete list in pp.398-405 and if you want to have the full set of articles, you will have to look for a copy of R&L.
As an ardent non-fisherman myself, what I find surprising is that almost all his articles are good reading even for an outsider. The only articles I found really dull were the annual statistical round-up. I often wish that more enthusiasts were prepared to take the risk of reading him on fishing.
posted via 141.0.14.144 user awhakim.
message 42887 - 09/03/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
The OED has 'hotted' as colloquial, usually followed by 'up'. So it would seem AR's usage was quite common, but we all (well, I assume so) know what he meant.
posted via 95.149.130.12 user MTD.
message 42886 - 09/03/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: AR the angler
I have 2 books concerned with AR's angling, "Fair Cops and Glowworms" and "AR on Fishing" which I admit to only dipping into occasionally, despite enjoying the fishing in the books, especially in BS. Is AR the angler as revered as AR the novelist and sailor by other AR enthusiasts?
posted via 86.161.51.249 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42885 - 09/03/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
I think we should be careful of proceeding from a particular Ransome usage to assume that it was a more general but now passed usage.
My family sometimes use odd words or catchphrases for things or actions, not because that is what we learned in school or from other families but because someone, sometime in the past, used that word and it caught the fancy of the hearers and they continued to use it perhaps to recall the amusement or perhaps to baffle outsiders.

Now, of course, having made the claim I am trying to recall one of those family words...

One of us in the bath playing with a small boat referred to it as a "sinking drailer". After that anything that wasn't going well or looked like foundering was either called or likened to a sinking drailer. If I had written that in a book and been allowed by my editor to let it pass, no doubt my legions of fans would be discussing exactly what a drailer was, how did it sink and why wasn't the word in the OED?

Perhaps Arthur or one of his siblings asked for something to be "hotted up" on occasion and it became a piece of the Ransome family language which he shared with us.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 42884 - 09/02/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
That's an interesting point Dave. The odd thing is, that over the years of reading I've never noticed and still understood. The most obvious one that has been mentioned here before is 'hotted'.

All the one's I've come across I've checked in my Shorter Oxford dictionary (an edition from the 1980/90s) and none of them have been marked 'archaic'. I'll compile a list to post here and show it to a friend of mine who is 98 and see what she thinks.
posted via 95.145.229.248 user MTD.


message 42883 - 09/02/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
Were AR's spellings and such like out of fashion when the stories were set (not necessarily when they were written)?
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42882 - 09/02/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Bicycle tyre brands
A good spot Magnus!

In my recent re-readings I have noticed things such as that and wondered why AR makes the point (and his use of English, never incorrect but spellings and such like that have fallen out of fashion.)
posted via 95.145.229.248 user MTD.


message 42881 - 09/02/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Bicycle tyre brands
I have recently enjoyed reading "Raffles: The Amateur Cracksman" by E.W. Hornung (published 1899). Whilst I often see small things in books which make me think of Ransome, this one jumped out at me more than the usual, and I had to share it.

The story is about two gentlemen criminals, and in this chapter they deliberately chose Dunlop tyres for their bikes when robbing houses.

I had my eye on the road all the way from Ripley to Cobham, and there were more Dunlop marks than any other kind. Bless you, yes, they all leave their special tracks, and we don't want ours to be extra special; the Dunlop's like a rattlesnake, and the Palmer leaves telegraph wires, but surely the serpent is more in our line.

Will I ever tire (ha ha!) of spotting these?!
posted via 109.155.77.108 user Magnus.


message 42880 - 09/01/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Who Was The Eldest?
Many thanks for that Alan, I had looked at Bill Wright's table of ages but I think it was one of those occasions when you get an idea in your head and it pushes reason aside (it was Susan's maturity in WDMTGTS that started it.)

I have a copy of both 'Master Storyteller' and 'Best of Childhood' and I should have looked there first!
posted via 95.145.229.248 user MTD.


message 42879 - 09/01/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Who Was The Eldest?
This question comes up here almost as often as Beckfoot plumbing. Bill Wright has made a comprehensive attempt to tabulate the ages in All Things Ransome.
The ultimate source, other than internal evidence, is AR's own notes. One, used when he was writing SA, is cited in Roger Wardale's Arthur Ransome: Master Storyteller (p.38) and shows John 12, Susan 10, Titty 9, Roger 7 and Vic (who doesn't count) 1½.
The note is printed verbatim in the earlier Best of Childhood (p.22). That book was from Amazon Publications, and only available to TARS members - and in any case, it's out of print. In the same book, p.303, there is a table headed CHRONOLOGY, starting with SA ("Roger 7, Titty 9, Susan 11, Peggy 11, John 12, Nancy 12"), giving the dates of the events in each book up to PM ("R 10, T12, S14, J 15, D 13 [Dorothea?], D12, N 15, P 14"). The whole series, SA to PM, runs from Summer 1930 to Summer 1933. (This was after AR had failed to get Cape to change the date of the climb of Kanchenjunga to fit the 1929 date in SA.) PP to BS, which took from 1935 to 1940 to write, all take place in the 1932 summer holidays.
posted via 141.0.14.219 user awhakim.
message 42878 - 09/01/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Grandson''s mother (my daughter), who sailed with me and at university, has her eye on a local water sports course for him next spring, which includes sailing; my other daughter is also expressing an interest in sailing again, though her son is still younger than Bridget.

I have had to defer plans to sell my boat....

posted via 92.25.156.231 user Mike_Jones.


message 42877 - 09/01/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
This is a brilliant post, Mike J, including a detailed interview with a target audience member who has also seen the 1974 film. Thanks! I agree with all of it - e.g. Roger in the new film is a really bright spark, and ANYTHING would be an improvement on the cringe-making Fraser (the only serious failing of the 1974 film).
I hope your grandson gets to go sailing soon! And starts to read the AR books. If he liked the Russian subplot he might like one of the ones with a dangerous 'enemy' - Pigeon Post, Peter Duck, Missee Lee.
Thanks again.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42876 - 09/01/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Hurrah! Who cares which film or book is best: someone now wants to go sailing.

I call that a result.
posted via 81.129.151.56 user Magnus.


message 42875 - 08/31/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
An interesting couple of days with my eight-year-old grandson. Yesterday we watched the 1974 film, and had a look at it again this morning before going to see the new film. He has had some of SA read to him, I believe, but does not know the book.

Asked which he preferred, he said the new film, because it was funnier; he was also gripped by the Russian spy sub-plot. He preferred the Roger in the new film - the nearest character to him in age - because the 1974 one seemed a bit dim. What he missed in the new film was any real emphasis on the detail of sailing a boat; he didn't see any knots being tied. Much more important than any of this, he wants to go sailing.

For myself, I thought the new SA worked well as an adventure film for children, and thought the Walker children were consistent with AR's characters, as were the Amazons except for looking so weird both with and without their masks. Peggy and Tatty were outstanding.

The adult performances were pretty good, and Rafe Spall was a great improvement on the appalling Ronald Fraser.

As to the new film being funnier, I think my grandson was right. There is something rather earnest about the 1974 film.
posted via 92.25.156.231 user Mike_Jones.


message 42874 - 08/31/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Who Was The Eldest?
Despite AR telling us (see Magnus' post) there is the matter that girls often mature mentally sooner than boys - don't know it that is still true though, seems to be the case with exam results here in the UK.
posted via 95.145.229.248 user MTD.
message 42873 - 08/31/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Who Was The Eldest?
Thanks Magnus, as I posted that question something nagged the back of my mind that told me I was wrong!
posted via 95.145.229.248 user MTD.
message 42872 - 08/31/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Who Was The Eldest?
Open Swallowdale to chapter 1 and read:

"John, the eldest of the four of them, said nothing. He was too busy with the sailing, now that Swallow had left the shelter of the bay and had begun to beat down the lake against the southerly wind."

(Now you see why ebooks are so useful; I did that search in 5 seconds. Of course, they don't smell right, though....)
posted via 81.129.151.56 user Magnus.


message 42871 - 08/31/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: New Film Opening Week End
Dave, I think the best place to try would be Southampton; not far from Lyndhurst and with a multi-screen cinema and good transport links.
By the way I presume you meant Lymington and not Leamington. Quite a distance apart.
posted via 109.150.84.218 user MartinH.
message 42870 - 08/31/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Who Was The Eldest?
I have once or twice wondered about this. As John's name usually comes first I assume he is the eldest. In most families children get listed in descending order of age. Probably because after one child it is "father, mother and A" after the second child is born it becomes "father, mother, A and B" etc.
posted via 109.150.84.218 user MartinH.
message 42869 - 08/31/16
From: Geraint Lewis, subject: Re: New Film Opening Week End
The film's official website, below, has the showtimes. It should be updated tomorrow (Thursday), when the cinemas release their schedules for the next week.
posted via 86.181.138.7 user Geraint_Lewis.
message 42868 - 08/30/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Who Was The Eldest?
Having re-read the twelve once more something occurred to me.

Apart from Roger and Bridget, we have no concrete references in the books to the ages of the main characters. Yet it is always assumed that John is the eldest of the Swallows, why?

In my reading I have begun to get the impression that Susan is obviously far more mature than John, and in the latter books the idea that she could be older.
posted via 95.145.229.248 user MTD.


message 42867 - 08/30/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: New Film Opening Week End
Does anyone know of a movie theatre near Lyndhurst that will be showing the new S&A film next Thursday/Friday September 8/9? I'm going to be in Lyndhurst and might conceivably squeak in the film -- if it's anywhere near. As nearly as I can tell from California there isn't a functioning movie venue in Lyndhurst at this point, possibly Leamington or Christchurce?
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42866 - 08/30/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
Interestingly, WDMTGTS is the one book of the twelve that I have come to appreciate much more as an adult. On recent re-reading all of Swallows develop emotionally and reveal more of themselves in the seriousness of the situation they are in.
posted via 2.28.84.7 user MTD.
message 42865 - 08/30/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
Serendipity gave us AR, thank Biology. Of course, AR's practical research gave him the overarching plot, but yes, it's the children's actions which make it believable, especially John's. It's almost what AR doesn't do that makes this story so realistically exciting. He doesn't have the children rescuing drowning sailors (except the kitten) or thwarting pirates (people smugglers today). John proves himself courageous and responsible in getting his siblings to safety by simply sailing a boat. Some people might say "so where's the tension? The adventure in that?" All I would say to them is read and believe. I still read it with a sense of danger and relief.
posted via 86.161.53.126 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42864 - 08/30/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 Film Score
The composer was at the preview screening at the BFI, and the children were eagerly asking him how he deals with making the music for the scary bits.
posted via 86.152.147.211 user JG.
message 42863 - 08/29/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: 2016 Film Score
Just about every aspect of the new S&A film has been discussed except the sound track. Well, there was an interview with Ilan Eshkeri, who composed the score, on BBC Radio 3 today. You can hear it at:- (there are marker posts to indicate where the Eshkeri interview starts)

Eshkeri interview

posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.


message 42862 - 08/29/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
I have experienced, and heard of, much stranger coincidences than the Swallows meeting their father in Flushing. Life is full of them. I have never had any problem accepting this episode as real.
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.
message 42861 - 08/29/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
Serendipity is virtually essential, and therefore excusable, in novels of action. The important thing is the plausibility of the children's actions, and AR gets this absolutely right in WDMTGTS.
posted via 88.110.85.12 user Mike_Jones.
message 42860 - 08/29/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
I can even believe that having experienced a number of serendipitous meetings that might not have happened had I or they not glanced up or back at just the right moment. But I haven't done a quayside leap.
posted via 86.161.53.126 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42859 - 08/29/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
AR is so good that the plot of WDMTGTS doesn't seem implausible (except perhaps the kitten?).

I would have thought the least plausible part was the arrival in the same port their father was leaving, and their sight of him at precisely the last moment for him to do a quayside leap.
posted via 2.28.193.31 user eclrh.


message 42858 - 08/29/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
AR is so good that the plot of WDMTGTS doesn't seem implausible (except perhaps the kitten?). It should be part of the Duke of Edinburgh award!
posted via 86.161.53.126 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42857 - 08/29/16
From: JG, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
I've always admired how AR teaches us things through the mouths of his child characters: Nancy enthusing about the hound trails to the Swallows, Jackie teaching trout-tickling to the Ds, John reminding himself of his father's sailing tips. And yes, I learnt to sail from S&A! When I did actually get onto a dinghy, I immediately knew what to do.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42856 - 08/28/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
I'm reading Lone Pine London right now and enjoying it very much, but MS does more telling us whereas AR shows us. I don't think he tells us anything, even when we learn things like trout tickling or, indeed, sailing. Unfortunately, I'm not a sailor but I have always thought the sailing S&As could teach me the basics - if that's what I wanted from them. In not patronizing his child readers, AR naturally encourages their interest, a difficult trick to master for anyone, let alone a "children's" author.
posted via 86.161.53.126 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42855 - 08/28/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
My view as well Tiss, though I would make a case for Malcolm Saville. Of childhood reads he came closest to how I felt about AR.
posted via 95.145.229.171 user MTD.
message 42854 - 08/28/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
I agree, and David's response shows that it happens. I think it has become fashionable in certain quarters to dismiss him and his adult readers, this review of the new film

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/film/swallows-and-amazons-review-oh-golly-gosh-we-re-in-the-wrong-century-1.2760398

from the Irish Times is a perfect example.
posted via 95.145.229.171 user MTD.


message 42853 - 08/27/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
Hello Mike; I kept reading references about 'Swallows and Amazons', 'Secret Water' and 'Arthur Ransome' in 'Yachting Monthly' when I was just 40, which is a bit late. I tracked them down in my local Public Library, and devoured them. Much later on Mike Field introduced me to TARS, whose membership I have enjoyed since then. Thanks, Mike !
posted via 121.214.158.161 user David.
message 42852 - 08/27/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
In this context it would be interesting to hear from or of AR admirers who first came across the SA books as adults, having missed them in their childhood.
posted via 88.110.76.82 user Mike_Jones.
message 42851 - 08/27/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: AR’s Achievement
Hi Mike. I must say I don't think of AR as a children's author. I don't think he wrote FOR children. He wrote for and about the child in himself. I think he used his childhood memories and others to create a childhood he wished he'd had and, in so doing, created a childhood I wish I'd had - and still wish for 40 years on.
I've reread other favourite books from my childhood, Malcolm Saville and Enid Blyton, and these do read like children's books. The genius of AR is that his don't. They are great stories that happen to have believable children as the main characters. If we could ask him how he did it, he probably wouldn't know.
posted via 86.161.53.126 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42850 - 08/27/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: AR’s Achievement
For me, AR as a children’s author, (and it is a pity we have to pigeon-hole him with this phrase, a great writer is a great writer), stands head and shoulders above any others because he doesn’t encourage or try to force his readers to do anything away from the books.

He may have inspired some to follow certain paths but that is just coincidental. One aspect of his work that he excels at is explaining to the reader how to do things – all I know about boats, sailing and numerous other subjects comes from reading AR. Fifty or so years on from my first reading his books I still draw upon that knowledge, even if only to enable me to understand references to those things in other books etc.

Reading his canon in my later adulthood has shown me another side to his work that is often underrated. He had a great understanding of the psychology of children, and how they interact with the world of adults. I always take great comfort from whenever in his plots the children show they have a much better understanding of things than the adults around them.

posted via 95.145.229.171 user MTD.


message 42849 - 08/26/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday now smoking
Capt. Flint (and Cdr. Walker) smoked "Navy Cut"; see Winter Holiday.
posted via 71.90.224.197 user Jon.
message 42848 - 08/26/16
From: CS, subject: Re: drag on a fag (was THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
And the spies smoking Bogatirii?
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42847 - 08/26/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Russians....
JG - Advice from an old TarBoarder: on Tarboard if you ask for discussion on a topic you will get complete silence. The thing to do is to request people NOT to talk on that topic and then the postings will arrive in shoals . . .
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.
message 42846 - 08/26/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday now smoking
I don't see Mrs Walker smoking those pastel-coloured 'Passing Clouds' - too poncey for a sailor's wife. I think 'Churchman's No. 1' would have suited her (made in Ipswich).
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.
message 42845 - 08/26/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Can you see what she is smoking? Authentic Craven A perhaps?

Sounds about right. My mum smoked those during the war.

Amazing campaign success; Craven 'A' were said to be "kind to your throat" My mum believed it- or at least, she said so.

Truth in advertising clearly has a long, rocky history.
posted via 81.62.110.19 user PeterC.


message 42844 - 08/25/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday now smoking
Possibly Mary Walker, being the wife of an RN officer, would have smoked Senior Service or Capstan Navy Cut. Both were popular 1930's non filter cigarettes of good quality.
Going upmarket, she may have smoked 'Passing Clouds' which came in a pink packet with a framed picture of a cavalier on the front.
Alternatively there was a brand called 'Three Castles' which came in a green pack with a picture of a three masted merchantman at the dockside with three barrels of rum or brandy on the quay.
Both A & CF smoked pipes. Not having seen the new film I do not know if Rafe Spall smokes a pipe. If he did, then one of Samuel Gawith's range of pipe tobaccos, manufactured in Kendal since 1792, would be a suitable tobacco to smoke. Out of a range of 50 tobaccos, names such as 'Bothy Flake', 'Firedance Flake' and 'Kendal Plug' stand out.
posted via 80.189.42.102 user OwenRoberts.
message 42843 - 08/25/16
From: SB, subject: Re: drag on a fag (was THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Perhaps, bearing in mind what they have done with the S&A story, Mrs Walker ought to have been filmed smoking Black Russians - a nice little plot complication.

Only trying to help,
SB
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.


message 42842 - 08/25/16
From: JG, subject: Russians....
Right (and this means you, Shackle), let's talk about the Russians in the film.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42841 - 08/25/16
From: George Owdon, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Yes, this teenage squabbling must stop, or it will be shackles at dawn for the lot of you.
But what has been overlooked in all this talk of the film is that at last it gives proper recognition to my Uncle Vladimir's part in the story. That was omitted from the book, probably by the intervention of the capitalist lackey Jonathan Cape. Justice at last!
posted via 141.0.14.75 user awhakim.
message 42840 - 08/25/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Oy - Coot and Strakey - go and start your own thread. Blimin' vandals.... Get Swill.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42839 - 08/25/16
From: CS, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Probably not Gauloises and certainly not Egyptian Deities. Sorry, couldn't resist.
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42838 - 08/24/16
From: SB, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Kelly Macdonald mentioned the smoking in a recent interview. While we can't really say it was her idea, she certainly approved of it in the role, saying: "she [Mrs W] is just a bit more real and vital and feisty than mother figures usually are".

Can you see what she is smoking? Authentic Craven A perhaps?

I'm afraid this is on the wrong thread - my idea, moderately inconvenient I suppose. Get Swill.
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.


message 42837 - 08/24/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Hello, Tiss. Yes, certainly, you shouldn't see the new film - don't worry - it's permitted not to! I agree 100% about what the genius of AR is, and you'll see my extremely similar thoughts (which I do believe that you'll like) about this on http://www.allthingsransome.net/literary/beckfoot.htm. So some people might say, given my credentials just above, 'Well, why is she enthusing about the film, then?' as in major ways it diverges from what I mark as special and brilliant about AR's books. I think I've answered this in other posts about the aim of TARS and about children nearly 100 years on, so I won't expand on it again here. It fulfils a role, and I believe a useful one, for the next-but-one generation, within the limited budget that was inevitably available and with attention inevitably to getting young audiences in. We continue of course to hope earnestly for a benevolent TARS millionaire one day to leave his fortune to the creation of a beautiful representation of our beloved books on-screen, including WH which always hovers near the top of my favourite-AR list. What a gift that would be.....
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42836 - 08/24/16
From: Tiss Flower, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Hi everyone, I'm new to this so bear with me. I don't want to see the new film either, not after hearing that spies have been brought in. For what? The genius of AR is that his children's adventures are believable because they come mainly from their imagination. Take WH: they go on an expedition to THEIR North Pole. Can you imagine a film version? It would probably send them to the real one. AR adapters should trust his story-telling ability and stick to HIS stories.
posted via 86.161.53.126 user Tiss_Flower.
message 42835 - 08/24/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
The seaplane is ready....
D'you notice that Mrs Walker smokes? A suspect....
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42834 - 08/24/16
From: SB, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
. . . but behind it, as usual. A peace offering of 5 Woodbines may not be enough . . .
SB
Get Barton.
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.
message 42833 - 08/24/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 Film
Yes, I agree (especially as it got rid of the lifejackets - I still loathe wearing one, having been brought up not to be a duffer). I noticed the tarpaulins, particularly in the Amazon; but John is clearly helming and tacking in some shots - well done him. Incidentally, re Roger, Philippa L told us that he's actually a very experienced swimmer!
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42832 - 08/23/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: New Film Opening Week End
In a previous thread Geraint Lewis pointed out that the amount of money the new film takes over its opening week end will improve the chances of more being made.

Swallows and Amazons took £676,000 make it No. 8 in the top ten, top was Find Dory taking £2.86m.

posted via 95.150.14.171 user MTD.
message 42831 - 08/23/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 Film
Thanks for that Peter, it makes much more sense. Reasonable safety measures are understandable.
posted via 95.150.14.171 user MTD.
message 42830 - 08/23/16
From: Peter Willis, subject: Re: 2016 Film
Health n Safety required there to be a diver in each boat, ready to leap into action in the event of a capsize, as an alternative to the lack of lifejackets. They lay in the bottom boards and it's quite easy to spot suspicious lumps concealed by tarpaulins in some shots.Nick Barton told me. He wasn't keen on it being broadcast and I omitted it from my Classic Sailor article - but it has been mentioned elsewhere
posted via 95.147.119.169 user PeterWillis.
message 42829 - 08/23/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
A rich field for G**, certainly; I am armed and ready - you won't find me in the boathouse.....
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42828 - 08/23/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
JG - 'All the best' won't save you - you have been rumbled. Expect repercussions.
SB

posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.
message 42827 - 08/23/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Hello, Mike Dennis - I'm quite sure that you don't really think that I believe that TARS are not AR enthusiasts. Some AR enthusiasts prefer, quite legitimately, not to take a active interest in the second part of TARS' twin aims (from the website home page) 'to celebrate his life and to promote his interests in exploring, camping, sailing, navigation, leadership, literature and much more.'
Apology accepted re the film review!
All the best
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42826 - 08/22/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
JG - Do you mean that members of TARS are not AR enthusiasts? I suspect you don't, but why make the distinction?

I'm certainly an AR enthusiast but not a member of TARS (never been the 'joining' type!) and apologies that this is not a film review, I'll provide one when I've seen it on DVD.
posted via 95.150.76.112 user MTD.


message 42825 - 08/22/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Well, now that a few have seen it! But it would be interesting to hear what they thought.
posted via 95.150.76.112 user MTD.
message 42824 - 08/22/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Hello, Mike Field - we haven't met, so of course I can't comment with personal knowledge, but I do certainly agree that you should never see the film.
For TARS - as separate from AR enthusiasts - I hope that you'll all ensure that any young children who you know or even faintly know of get to see this film, which - nearly 100 years on from AR's magnificent achievement in encouraging children out into the world of open air and adventure - is doing the same again, absolutely within the ethos and reason-for-existence of TARS.
My feeling is - and of course I could be entirely wrong - is that Brigit would have been jumping up and down with hilarious glee at this new initiative in pulling children away from their screens and bringing back the magic of outdoors to them. There's a long scene in the film where Mrs Walker and Mrs Jackson talk about getting children out into the natural world. These days it takes different plot devices to do that; I would love it if a ten-year-old would come onto this discussion board to say how they feel about it, but I fear that they won't...
I do hope that we can keep this particular thread as a review of the film, with other discussion held in separate threads. We are a good-quality forum!
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42823 - 08/22/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
For those of us based in North America, we haven't seen it and there is no indication if or when we shall. IMdb says that it will have a 2016 release, but it may not be very extensive and if doesn't do well in the UK may never be released in cinemas here.

But by all means discuss the film as I doubt that there will be very many plot spoilers for this audience even with the Enid Blyton additions.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 42822 - 08/22/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
I haven't seen it at all. And as I said quite some time ago -- after reading how the story, the characters, and even the boat had been so badly mangled -- I have no intention of ever seeing it....
posted via 124.171.132.3 user mikefield.
message 42821 - 08/22/16
From: Duncan, subject: Re: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
I HAVEN'T seen it yet and I'm still not sure I want to...

But I probably always preferred the Amazons, a bit.
posted via 86.148.184.121 user Duncan.


message 42820 - 08/22/16
From: JG, subject: 2016 film, now that we've all seen it...
Thought I'd start a fresh thread. Saw it (for the second time) today - only a handful of people but it was 11 o'clock on a Monday morning. As we went out, I could hear several children (girls especially) saying that the Swallows were boring but the Amazons were 'really cool'. I realise what clever casting it was - the Swallows to appeal to us oldies and AR fans, the Amazons to appeal to young girls as their wannabee dream.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42819 - 08/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - Another Review
There is a review today in The Sunday Times (London) by Camilla Long, which if you are used to her humour is quite positive.

The she admits to having been a 'Blyton child' rather than a 'Ransome child' herself and makes much of the silliness of the Titty name change.

She argues that Blyton deliberately used children's names that were double entendres whereas Ransome

"...presumably went to his grave not knowing why having both a Roger and a Titty in his Swallows and Amazons books was so funny. All gone now ... Titty has been exterminated by a faceless committee that is frightened children might be tempted to laugh."

Long goes on to comment on the addition of 39 Steps type action as

"... a blustering, preposterous addition that feels weird, but largely works."

She joins a number of reviewers who claim to know nothing of the books but makes a couple of points which show she does (or perhaps has just read the PR material she received!)

Unfortunately, to read more you need to buy the paper or get through a paywall!
posted via 2.28.84.30 user MTD.


message 42818 - 08/19/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
Thanks for that Geraint, very useful!
posted via 95.145.229.191 user MTD.
message 42817 - 08/19/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
Apologies if this has been posted already - I haven't read all of the posts about reviews of the film.

There's a review by Peter Bradshaw in the Guardian. The printed version is in Friday's weekly "Film & Music" section and is much shorter than the online version linked below. The printed version comprises just the first two paragraphs of the text of the online version (with slightly changed wording) plus the one-sentence final paragraph.

posted via 2.28.193.31 user eclrh.
message 42816 - 08/19/16
From: Geraint Lewis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
Thanks, Mike. You're quite right that the DM article says "Arthur Ransome Trust". So does the Times one it was taken from, and so does Andrea's original article. My point is that they're factually incorrect. The consultations over Titty's name change certainly took place as described. But for the record they were with AR's Literary Executors, NOT with the Arthur Ransome Trust.

Incidentally, Andrea has published the article she wrote online (link below), so you can read it directly, without the various papers' edits (which are quite significant in places), and without need to climb the Times paywall.

posted via 86.180.255.89 user Geraint_Lewis.
message 42815 - 08/19/16
From: Geraint Lewis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
Thanks, Mike. You're quite right that the DM article says "Arthur Ransome Trust". So does the Times one it was taken from, and so does Andrea's original article. My point is that they're factually incorrect. The consultations over Titty's name change certainly took place place as described. But they were with AR's Literary Executors, not with the Arthur Ransome Trust.

Andrea has published the article she wrote online (link below), so you can read it directly, without the various papers' edits, and without need to climb the Times paywall.

posted via 86.180.255.89 user Geraint_Lewis.
message 42814 - 08/19/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
Thanks Geraint, the first of course should be 'not', a mistake on my part.

The other quote is a direct copy and paste from the Daily Mail Website.
posted via 95.145.229.191 user MTD.


message 42813 - 08/19/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 Film
At the BFI showing, the director spoke clearly about them being taught to sail, and I don't believe she was lying; but the children might quite rightly feel that they weren't then fully-fledged 'able to sail'. She did also say that they sailed alone - she didn't confirm whether sometimes or always, so it could certainly be that there was sometimes someone else in the boat.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42812 - 08/19/16
From: Geraint Lewis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
I suspect that is meant to read "...decision not taken lightly..." as that would be in line with the various players' other comments on this subject (and the history thereof, so far as I know it).

The second quote is a typo/error - it should read "Arthur Ransome Literary Estate", not "Arthur Ransome Trust".
posted via 86.180.255.89 user Geraint_Lewis.


message 42811 - 08/19/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 Film - More Odd Reports
In The Daily Mail yesterday (18th) they had an interview with the writer of the screenplay, Andrea Gibb, who says the name change for Titty was a decision taken lightly and was to avoid associations with Online pornography. She also says they had had long

"... careful discussions, in consultation with the Arthur Ransome Trust," about it.

(its available Online without a paywall)
posted via 95.145.229.191 user MTD.


message 42810 - 08/19/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: 2016 Film
The Blue Peter piece was rather short and sparse, though was filmed on 'Wild Cat' Island. One interesting thing emerged, in all the location reports the director etc have said the children were taught to sail, on Blue Peter they all claimed they couldn't and there was someone on the boat with them (and some clever camera angles), unless... they were being ironic or whatever.

posted via 95.145.229.191 user MTD.
message 42809 - 08/19/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
Cath Kidston is a very trendy designer beloved of middle-class mothers who want their homes to look like stylised country houses - I don't agree with Spicer's comments but she's probably right on that one!
posted via 95.145.229.191 user MTD.
message 42808 - 08/19/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
Kate Muir has had another go at the new S&A film in The Times today. Sensitive AR fans should not read any further. Among her comments:

"The adaptation . . .is an Enid Blyton-style lashings-of-ginger-beer adventure, with trains, planes and spies all thrown in. Ransome purists may be disappointed, but the original story is just too whimsical and tame for children today"

Ouch!

Other comments: "The film is bizarrely enjoyable" (well, thanks). "Jolly japes are had battling over territory" "Ransome experts will probably choke on their Pemmican Spam . ." (Oh very witty!) "but the addition of some peril gives the film a spiffing bit of oomph outdoors, which balances the nostalgic Cath Kidston retro look of many of the interior scenes"

Who is Cath Kidston for heaven's sake ??

This sneering Metropolitan-minded review is a disgrace.
posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.


message 42807 - 08/18/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
For those who can listen to BBC Radio 4 on I-Player, The Film Programme at 4 o'clock this afternoon had an interview with Andrea Gibbs, the film's script writer. It isn't the whole programme, but lasted long enough for me to Rattletrap from one meeting to the next!
posted via 86.152.212.132 user Paul_Crisp.
message 42806 - 08/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Perhaps it is a case for Inspector Moss, after all: we could write a short piece about the mysterious inversion in January 1943, including a copy of Alan's 9th edition and my 11th edition illustrations (they have the caption at the bottom, so even Moss shouldn't struggle with printing them as sent), and asking whether anyone has the 10th or 12th edition and if so, which way up the illustration is?
BTW, I don't seem to have received the 2015 issue of Mixed Moss (was there one? Could I borrow someone else's?).
posted via 81.159.82.27 user JG.
message 42805 - 08/18/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Since my last post I remembered I have a 1936 Cape edition, checked and Dick's legs are pointing up! So perhaps the wartime edition theory is the answer.
posted via 2.29.89.39 user MTD.
message 42804 - 08/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Film and the Aleppo connection
And it's on the BBC news website today - a longish piece on the Aleppo connection, with some lovely photos of the family: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37049314.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42803 - 08/18/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
There is a 10th impression in September 1942, then mine (11th) in January 1943. So - can we find the 10th and 12th editions??
I'd always wondered about it (I bought it second-hand), and in 1996 I sent a query about it to Moss, though I don't recall that it was printed.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42802 - 08/17/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
This is very odd. My copy (9th impression May 1942) has the picture the right way up, i.e. Dick's legs pointing up, and the mast below the sledge. With all the difficulties of printing during the war, I would have thought they just kept all the type locked up ready for the next reprint.
Perhaps some officious person had the block reversed after my reprint, and was duly reprimanded after JG's 1943 one had attracted comment.
BTW, the letter quoted by Magnus is also reprinted in Roger Wardale's AR: Master Storyteller (p.80) which is available to the general public.
posted via 141.0.14.147 user awhakim.
message 42801 - 08/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Checking my various editions, the Cape hardback from 1960s up to the Vintage Christmas themed edition from last year all have the version with Dick's legs upwards. When was the change made?
posted via 2.29.89.39 user MTD.
message 42800 - 08/17/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
Aha - I've always wondered whether the 1943 edition, with the inverted illustration, was a one-off (cue the carpeting of a wartime employee..... 'Well, sir, it really wasn't obvious at all'); we'd need a way of checking that page in WH editions throughout the 1940s. Hmmmm.

posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42799 - 08/17/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
My Cape seventeenth impression of 1948 has the legs pointing up.q
posted via 92.25.152.116 user Mike_Jones.
message 42798 - 08/17/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
Today's Times articles are behind the usual paywall. However, very briefly: the first article is by Andrea Gibb, the film scriptwriter, and explains why the Russian spy plot was included, and why Titty's name was changed. She writes:

"Since this was a cinematic story, we felt more peril was needed to sustain it. This had to be realistic . . . That's when Ransome presented us with another gift: his secret past."

Marks to Andrea Gibb for breaking cover on this, but I'm afraid I can't agree with her. My view is that, far from "presenting" it, AR would have been horrified at anything from his real past in Russia being imported into his S&A adventure stories.

As to Titty/Tatty, Andrea Gibb is on slightly better ground:

"There was no edict, no politically correct diktat from on high. We, the film makers, had long and careful discussions, in consultation with the Arthur Ransome Trust, and came to a consensus to change it."

The other article is about the Altounyan connection with AR and also, sadly, about Aleppo, much of which is now in ruins. The connection has a tragic topicality. Both these Times articles are well-written, a welcome change to some of the stuff seen lately.

posted via 86.182.41.19 user Peter_H.


message 42797 - 08/17/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
when I look at the other-way-up illustration in my 1968 paperback, with Dick's legs pointing up, I've always felt that the latter is correct

Looking at it on my Kindle edition, it does look very ambiguous. My hard cover 1948 Cape greenbacks are out of reach, but I'm sure that you're right. After all, doesn't AR in the letter mention Dick going "head first" into the snow?
But I agree that the Cape paginator (is that what they called the layout chaps) might very excusably been more than puzzled.
posted via 81.62.60.241 user PeterC.


message 42796 - 08/17/16
From: JG, subject: Re: Film this weekend
I'm off to see it again on Monday in Brighton - there was so much to take in that I want another go at it. The official purists on the various film threads will be looking for anachronisms/ centreboard-cases etc: we should be cheering this film as it was done on a small budget, by a British team who care about encouraging Ransomeian values in children (which is what TARS is all about). It's quite true that the added plot elements are a bit Enid Blyton; but the children at the BFI showing absolutely adored them, and this helps to introduce a whole new generation of children to Ransome and to enthuse them about the ‘camping and fresh air’ parallel theme of the film. The writer has done a clever job of condensing the plot elements, seamlessly removing Cormorant Island for example. And it’s a lovely old-fashioned film style, with long tracking shots rather than quick-cut flashes for young people with short attention spans. I was glad to see no life-jackets! and interested to hear that unlike the Whatham film with the dinghies often tethered to the camera-raft, the children really were sailing all the time.
posted via 84.92.123.32 user JG.
message 42795 - 08/17/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
Yet more in today's Times - a double page spread in the Times 2 section. Part of it looks at the Syria - Aleppo connection. Our main problem is finding a local cinema showing the film! Mostly, they give new listings on Thursday, so we wait until tomorrow.

posted via 86.152.212.132 user Paul_Crisp.
message 42794 - 08/15/16
From: Geraint Lewis, subject: Re: A better idea for a film...
Let's hope so. But any sequel will face numerous significant hurdles, any one of which could easily derail its development. At the moment most are too far off to worry about. But there is one immediate and unavoidable one: even cracking the door open for a sequel depends on this S&A being a (substantial) commercial success. No movie gets made without finance, and nobody is going to finance a sequel to a failure.

Box office success is very dependent on the opening weekend return. If a movie does well at the start, then the cinemas will keep it on more screens and there's time for word of mouth to build an audience. If it performs poorly, then they'll pull it in favour of something else. So, if you want to see a movie of one of the other AR books - or even keep alive the chance of one - it makes sense to go to see it during the opening weekend, and encourage as many other people as possible to do likewise.
posted via 86.180.255.89 user Geraint_Lewis.


message 42793 - 08/15/16
From: JG, subject: Re: A better idea for a film...
The director and script-writer, in the post-film discussion at the BFI yesterday, were coy but encouraging about a question from a child about a sequel. Pigeon Post, Picts and Martyrs and Winter Holiday are all wonderful candidates. Meanwhile, I love the suggestion of re-looking at the adventures from an Amazon point of view, though that's probably one for an article rather than a film. When I played Mrs Blackett in a sketch at an AGM gathering some years ago I tried to enlarge on what it was like at the Blackett end. Rich material for speculation and envisaging......
posted via 31.52.8.45 user JG.
message 42792 - 08/15/16
From: JG, subject: Re: 2016 Film
Saw it yesterday at the British Film Institute! The cinema was full of children; the director and script-writer were there for questions afterwards, and there was a forest of hands as small children queued up to ask about how the film was made etc. Purists will hate it, as it's only vaguely related to the Swallows & Amazons story; but the director and script-writer underlined repeatedly how hard they'd worked to keep the essence and spirit of the original story, and I think they've succeeded. (This is almost the '13th book'). They also assured us that there was no CGI or 'green screen' - the young actors really did do everything, including Roger falling overboard in a real lake and being rescued (though there was a diver underwater - coincidentally, Virginia McKenna's son - ready to support Roger if needed). While the boats were not actually [spoiler alert] being dragged along by a seaplane at the end, the children really were in the boats being dragged hair-raisingly along (by a speedboat, on a Scottish loch). The rain on the camp was real, and the children were ad-libbing in that scene. Lovely scenes of incompetently frying fish etc. And 'Tatty' is a triumph (and NB John at one stage calls her 'Tattymouse') - clearly differentiated from our own Sophie, but Tittyish in a different way. Who knows what everyone will make of the Blacketts (Cumberland accents, apparently living in a rather basic way in a formerly nice house), but I warmed to them.
Re Martin H's post about the children not being sailors, we heard from the director that they were all tested as being comfortable on water, and John and Susan were given several weeks of sailing lessons (John in particular taking to it as a natural), which I'd say is enough for a film. As someone who's done a bit of acting, I can't buy 'most youngsters can perform a role when required' - not roles like these.
posted via 31.52.8.45 user JG.
message 42791 - 08/15/16
From: JG, subject: Re: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
My 1943 hardback has the illustration with Dick's legs pointing down; when I look at the other-way-up illustration in my 1968 paperback, with Dick's legs pointing up, I've always felt that the latter is correct and that in 1943 it was misprinted (not a hard error to make!). Sounds as if my feeling was right.
posted via 31.52.8.45 user JG.
message 42790 - 08/14/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: 2016 Film
But at least the makers seem to acknowledge the Australian origin in the book, for in the music you here phrases from the shanty 'We're bound for South Australia'.

Once I can find a local cinema showing it next weekend, we'll go and see it for the second time. All the listings seem to go up to this Thgursday and no further!

posted via 86.152.212.132 user Paul_Crisp.


message 42789 - 08/14/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: THAT illustration in Winter Holiday
You know the one where D&D's sledge capsizes when nearly at the Pole? The picture which some people say ought to be the other way up.
Well I've found a comment by AR about it, in a letter, and I don't think it has been dissected on Tarboard yet.

To G Wren Howard, Sep 12, 1933

Hi! I counted on you to hurl forth the worst of those pictures. ... What about that niggly one of them being capsized in the snowstorm, with Dick's legs sticking up as he goes head first into the snow. My wife says that picture is a disgrace, and that I ought not even to have let you see it. I only let it go because I had nowt better, and because a small girl liked it.

(This letter was published in The Best Of Childhood, Amazon Publications)
posted via 81.129.151.56 user Magnus.


message 42788 - 08/14/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: 2016 Film
And the Daily Telegraph Review section yesterday had an interview with Kelly Macdonald, who plays Mrs Walker. It explains why she used a Scottish accent - it is her own. She was brought up in Glasgow. When she auditioned for the part she used 'period drama RP' but she was told to use her own accent, as Philippa Lowthorpe, the director, "had this notion to make the mother Scottish because they thought she could have some fun with that". Hmmm. We can all judge soon, as the film goes on general release on the 19th. (If you watch the cricket Test Match highlights each evening, you will have seen the film advertised during one of the breaks.)
posted via 86.182.41.186 user Peter_H.
message 42787 - 08/14/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: 2016 Film
Well, whatever some of us may think of the new film the BBC and their collaborating production companis are certainly not skimping on publicity here in the UK.

Saturday 13th the Daily Mail Weekend magazine included a double page spread written by Barbara Altounyan (there is an online version but you have to sign up for a 7 day trial then it is £1 for one issue.)

Next Thursday's Blue Peter on the CBBC TV channel at 5.00pm will include interviews with the child actors.
posted via 2.29.97.227 user MTD.


message 42786 - 08/10/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Film Review in RYA Magazine
When my autumn copy of the RYA members’ magazine arrived this morning I was interested to see it contains a three page article about the new S&A film, including excerpts from an interview with Nick Barton. A couple of points in particular attracted my notice;
a) No children who could already sail were considered suitable as actors,
b) Old RNSA (Royal Navy Sailing Association) dinghies were used as Swallow and Amazon.

For the former in my experience most youngsters can perform a role when required. It just requires a little patience to instruct them, just like teaching them to sail. I am sure that a few weekends spent at sailing clubs with strong cadet memberships would have revealed a host of potential Johns and Nancys.

Re-rigged from gunter to lug sailed the RNSAs look near perfect for the roles. However, and this is nit-picking, in Swallow the centreboard case can be seen. I just once sailed one of these back in the 1970s and they seemed very slow and old-fashioned even when compared to the RN’s Bosun class of dinghies. But a general purpose boat designed in the 1940s for instructing sailors to sail has to be robust!

The author (the piece is un-credited) is upbeat about the film and hopes it will inspire a new generation to take to the water.

posted via 86.145.168.37 user MartinH.


message 42785 - 08/09/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Film review in The Times
The same thing has been going on with the yearly release of new models of automobiles since the 1950s, at least in the U.S. I think they are about a year early now.
posted via 24.156.62.154 user dthewlis.
message 42784 - 08/08/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Film review in The Times
Reviews and ads seem to be everywhere this weekend - in the Telegraph Magazine, ans on the back of the Times Saturday Review.

An ad (doubtless the same one) was also on the back of the Guardian's weekend magazine. If I'd based a view on the picture and not on what I've read here, I'd have guessed that the film was faithful to the book.

By the way, can anyone tell me why magazines are published over a month in advance?

I think it's basically an arms race. Where several magazines compete for a particular market, the publishers tend to believe (presumably on the basis of experience) that the one which first gets out its issue titled October (or any other month) will have an advantage. So over the years the publication dates drift earlier and earlier.
posted via 2.31.118.69 user eclrh.


message 42783 - 08/08/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: Film review in The Times
Reviews and ads seem to be everywhere this weekend - in the Telegraph Magazine, ans on the back of the Times Saturday Review. One that might have been missed is in the September edition of Classic Boat, together with an interview with Nick Barton, the film's producer. Both are worth reading.

By the way, can anyone tell me why magazines are published over a month in advance? I bought CB on the 4th August. There used to be a classic car journal that published two months ahead, so one would now be looking at the October edition! Is this to make them have a longer coffee-table life?
posted via 86.160.204.246 user Paul_Crisp.


message 42782 - 08/07/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Film review in Daily Telegraph (was: Westmorland Gazette)
I agree Mike (though the Telegraph doesn't use a paywall yet, so you should be able to get the main article.)

Once again Nick Barton seems to be 'talking up' his own production despite claims of being an S&A fan -

‘In the 1970s movie it’s a bit more buffoonery. It’s also quite small in scale; today it would seem like a TV film. We needed to make it more adventurous.’

Reading this gives the impression he's never seen the 1974 film!
posted via 2.29.97.213 user MTD.


message 42781 - 08/07/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Film review in Daily Telegraph (was: Westmorland Gazette)
Nothing in that review has led me to change my opinion that this version is a travesty of the original. :(

I can't get access to the links because they're behind a paywall. Maybe I'm getting to be an old dogmudgeon, but I don't like being held to ransom over Ransome....
posted via 124.171.131.255 user mikefield.


message 42780 - 08/07/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Film review in Daily Telegraph (was: Westmorland Gazette)
In yesterday's (6 Aug) Daily Telegraph there were two more articles on AR and the new film. In the Review section there was a piece on AR and his life - usual stuff, but in the colour magazine there was an article on the making of the new film:-

'All aboard'

I note that Dane Hughes, who plays John, has only read 2 pages of S&A.


posted via 86.182.41.186 user Peter_H.


message 42779 - 08/06/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Folding Dinghy
That's pretty cool. Do you think that was a double-bladed (kayak) paddle? I hadn't considered one for my folder, but I may need to now.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 42778 - 08/06/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Re: Folding Dinghy
All of that makes sense, and AR's assessment of Mac's dinghy says as much, that it was Mac's (inexpert) design and construction. I've still always thought well of Mac for giving it a shot.

Mostly, though, I was wondering if anyone knew of a specific experience AR himself had with folders, that he might have mentioned in his nonfiction, and that then found its way into GN?. My (perhaps overactive) imagination can construct an experience for AR where he had a too-exciting time trying to land a salmon from a friend's home-made folding dinghy. The impression stuck, and evolved into Jemmerling's misadventure.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 42777 - 08/05/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Folding Dinghy
Folding boats that I've read about had canvas bottoms and endposts, wooden sides, and wooden burden boards and thwarts that kept the boat's shape when inserted. More modern versions were designed, using hypalon instead of canvas. Your Fliptail looks like a nice extension of the design.

Wiki has an article on folding dinghies, which includes (very large) photos of the two types.

And then of course there were the folding kayaks ('folbots') used by commandos in WWII, but that's another topic.

I've always thought that Mac's folding dinghy must have been home-designed as well as home-made, finishing up a bit like a coracle -- which were shaped like saucers and always notoriously hard to move in a straight line.

posted via 124.171.131.255 user mikefield.
message 42776 - 08/05/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Folding Dinghy
Here is the Harrods model from their 1929 catalogue. No other details are given, other than the heading "Enjoy the Delights of the River Economically".


posted via 86.182.41.186 user Peter_H.


message 42775 - 08/04/16
From: Alex Forbes, subject: Folding Dinghy
One of the things I liked best about GN? was the idea of a folding dinghy. After many years, I'm now building one of my own: I've started with the plans for the "Fliptail 7", from Wooden Widgets (it's easy to find on line, if you like), and have modified it as I've gone. However, with working on her, I got to wondering if anyone knows AR's history with folding dinghies, and whether the one in GN? had a real life equivalent. That element of the story has all of AR's attention to detail, but feels as though it may have been drawn from a specific boat or memory. Things like CF's line "I'd like to see him get hold of a salmon in her", make me wonder if the folder was a personal friend of AR's. Does anyone know anything about the folder?
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.
message 42774 - 08/02/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
And in the Telegraph today, Our Sophie has a whole page about what has happened to the children of the 1974 film
posted via 141.0.14.146 user awhakim.
message 42773 - 07/29/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Film review in The Times - and further
Passing through the London Underground yesterday, I was impressed by a large and striking poster for the film, "In cinemas August 19".
posted via 141.0.15.35 user awhakim.
message 42772 - 07/28/16
From: Peter Truelove, subject: Re: Film review in The Times
Having attended the preview viewing of the film a month ago and passing an opinion in Message 42729, I had the good fortune to attend the World Premiere in Keswick last weekend. The second viewing confirmed my original thoughts about what I had seen. The film is recognisable as the story we all know and love but not as we all know and love it. The link between this and the original written material is about as close as the one between Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' and The Gospels. It's certainly there but there is an awful lot of stuff added and an awful lot of stuff taken away. Good film though, my grandchildren will love it. Do not go if you are a purist.... 'cos you won't like it.
posted via 95.144.141.165 user jacpet.
message 42771 - 07/26/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Film review in The Times
The new S&A film is reviewed in today's Times. I am going to lift the Murdoch paywall slightly and quote from it - brief extracts only and for review and educational purposes, of course. The reviewer is Kate Muir, who takes a rather 'Metropolitan' view of the film (as most of the critics do):

“It’s a strange kettle of fish, this adaptation of Arthur Ransome’s beloved thirties children’s book, but enjoyable for its sense of freedom and derring-do. Tossing your 7-year old, with no lifejacket, into a boat with his siblings and losing contact for days seems unconscionable in this era of helicopter parenting. . . .
. . . The child acting, as ever, can be overcooked, although Roger takes to the Method like a duckling to water. This, however, is not going to make a modern movie, although they tried in 1974 . . .
. . . The director Philippa Lowthorpe has grafted on a Russian spy plot, which adds oomph outdoors, balancing the Cath Kidston look of the interiors.
. . . Probably the perfect audience is a grandparent and a young grandchild. That said, watching the red-sailed dinghy bob across the lake in a velvet green landscape has a calming effect that we all need.”



posted via 86.182.42.251 user Peter_H.


message 42770 - 07/25/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Film review in Daily Telegraph (was: Westmorland Gazette)
It does show it in a different light, but it still seems changes for changes sake. Those that some reviewers approve of AR himself moved towards in some of the other books.
posted via 95.146.63.83 user MTD.
message 42769 - 07/25/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Film review in Daily Telegraph (was: Westmorland Gazette)
I remain excited by the fact that the story will be introduced to another generation.

When will it arrive in Canada?
posted via 184.151.61.213 user rlcossar.


message 42768 - 07/25/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Film review in Daily Telegraph (was: Westmorland Gazette)
A very positive review in today's Telegraph, giving the film 4 stars. This is the first review that has actually encouraged me to see the film. I think Robbie Collins may be a secret S&A enthusiast.
posted via 141.0.14.147 user awhakim.
message 42767 - 07/25/16
From: Woll, subject: Film review in Westmorland Gazette
A generally positive, but undetailed, review in the Westmorland Gazette.
posted via 183.76.57.171 user Woll.
message 42766 - 07/24/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Guardian Film review
I agree Mike, it does seem both reviews only confirm my worst fears!
posted via 95.146.63.83 user MTD.
message 42765 - 07/24/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: A review of the new film
Thanks for that Adam, an interesting review from an unusual source (for a new UK film that is!) On reading I wonder if the reviewer knew the books more than she was letting on, it seems from her Twitter feed she does.
posted via 95.146.63.83 user MTD.
message 42764 - 07/24/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Guardian Film review
Not sure that I would be too concerned about the lack of a sculling notch.
The dinghy in which I attempted to learn to sail, in South West Ireland, had no notch. A rowlock was removed from the safety chain and transferred to a hole in the centre of the stern. My fisherman instructor said it was far more effective than a notch.

The film may be watchable as an adventure story in its own right; perhaps expecting it to be true to the book 87 years on it too much to expect. A good version was in the BBC series in black & white days.
posted via 80.189.42.102 user OwenRoberts.


message 42763 - 07/24/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Guardian Film review
Hh'mmm... I'm afraid that neither the Guardian's nor Variety's review inspires with me any desire to watch the film. Leaving aside all the additional plot events and twists that are not actually part of the story at all, blow me down, they couldn't even get Swallow herself right! Not only is she finished bright like Amazon, but they also gave her a forestay, shrouds, and a barn-door rudder for good measure. And no sculling notch -- which is a shocking lapse, given the importance that the ability to scull both dinghies has to the story.

If you're going to do something at all, why not do it properly? The Variety review talks about this film's Swallow's being a "clinker-built little boat clearly sourced with every care by production designer Suzie Davies." I'm afraid the fact is that Suzie plainly didn't use enough care. They could have built a perfect copy of Swallow for a few thousand quid -- a miniscule proportion of the overall cost of production. Or they could simply have hired the 1974 film version, which is much closer in design to the original and has been restored and is sailing, as we know.

The Guardian review calls the new film a "self-conscious period adaptation that grafts on a new grownup plotline of treachery and derring-do, probably closer to Enid Blyton’s Famous Five or John Buchan"; and it calls the story addition a "new and implausible line in melodrama", mentioning "a frankly bizarre and not entirely logical chase sequence aboard a train in which sinister trench-coated figures behave strangely". Variety's review mentions "a dramatic third-act convergence involving a sea-plane. It’s a stunt that feels more of a piece with Enid Blyton’s lusty disregard for plausibility".

While I'm somewhat of a fan of Enid Blyton, and a much greater one of John Buchan, in my view neither Blyton nor Buchan has any place in an Arthur Ransome story.

The Guardian's review ends by saying, "This Swallows and Amazons is decent enough: but probably best savoured on the small screen after tea on a rainy Sunday."

I'm afraid it's a film I myself have no intention of watching at all.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42762 - 07/24/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Guardian Film review
Another review
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42761 - 07/23/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: A review of the new film
On the whole, a very positive review.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42760 - 07/23/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: A review of the new film
Variety's take on the new film includes an acknowledgment that it may enrage Ransome purists and that the ending "...feels more of a piece with Enid Blyton’s lusty disregard for plausibility than the studied logic of even Ransome’s most adventurous moments."
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42759 - 07/21/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Two 'Swallow's this year!
Oh, we can get excited all right but unfortunately we cannot do very much about the excitement.

posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42758 - 07/21/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Two 'Swallow's this year!
The Swallow from the 1974 film is staying in East Anglia this summer. If you want to get sailing on the Norfolk Broads, Suffolk rivers or even at 'Secret Water' then do get in touch.

A quick bit of blurb about our plans can be found at www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/190213/You-can-sail-Swallow-in-2016

On the same website (that's my my day job) you can see what is happening to the Swallow from the 2016 film; she'll be on display at the Isle of Wight during Cowes Week (a massive yacht racing event). More details at www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/190897/Swallows-and-Amazons-come-to-Cowes

My apologies to those outside the UK who cannot get excited about this news.
posted via 81.129.151.122 user Magnus.


message 42757 - 07/17/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Derwentwater regatta and film reviews
But the Special Agent was Dick Barton!

Dick/Nick. It's close enough for jazz.

Wonderful. Explains everything...

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42756 - 07/16/16
From: a, subject: Re: Derwentwater regatta and film reviews
But the Special Agent was Dick Barton!
posted via 141.0.14.144 user awhakim.
message 42755 - 07/14/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Derwentwater regatta and film reviews
This quote from Nick Barton (producer)

That's really his name? I never realised.

Of course they have to have a chase on the roof of the train! It's fate!

AR, Special Agent!
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42754 - 07/12/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Derwentwater regatta and film reviews
Thanks Adam for posting that, very interesting.

This quote from Nick Barton (producer) gave me pause for thought

“One of the Arthur Ransome Society members said that the film told the story that he, Ransome, would have liked to have written. He didn’t, of course, write that story because he couldn’t.”

Another point, I assume a misprint - “We started filming properly in 2010 and then filmed last year in the Lake District,”

In 2010? I know this is the second attempt at the production, but I thought the first never got to the filming stage.
posted via 2.29.89.64 user MTD.


message 42753 - 07/12/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Derwentwater regatta and film reviews
The CofE must be worried by the firing of all those canons.

“We intended to make a film which was faithful to the book, but Arthur Ransome was a fully paid up spy for MI6 when he was working in Russia, but of course he couldn’t write about that."

posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42752 - 07/12/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Ivor Cutler, was: TV alert - no idea if worthwhile
I saw him in a London theatre revue, probably about 1960, but don't remember who else was in it. He would appear periodically dressed menacingly in a slightly-too-small morning coat, and sing sardonic songs to the accompaniment of a portable harmonium.
The rest of the cast would flee the stage in terror at his approach.
posted via 78.33.14.82 user awhakim.
message 42751 - 07/08/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: 'Britain's Lost Waterlands - Escape to Swallows & Amazons Country'
Dylan Winters' 'Keep Turning Left'.

The main site is here, from where you can find indexes to dozens of his ten-minute sailing videos.

And on this page you'll find his clips of Secret Water.

Be aware that Dylan is not an expert on AR or his books. He does not in fact like him very much and isn't afraid of saying so. Putting that to one side, his film clips are most interesting. Further, there are a lot more clips than just those of AR waters -- season by season he's done all of the east coast, Orkney, and a good deal of Scotland.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42750 - 07/08/16
From: PeterWillis, subject: Re: TV alert - no idea if worthwhile
Ivor Cutler, of Y'Hup, OMP (Obique Musical Philosopher) first came to my attention in I guess the late 1950s in a sort of compilation programme called Monday Night at Home, on the (then) Home Service. I was 15 or thereabouts, raised on the Goon Show, and worshipped him
posted via 2.27.236.238 user PeterWillis.
message 42749 - 07/08/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: 'Britain's Lost Waterlands - Escape to Swallows & Amazons Country'
I quite enjoyed it, although no more than that. The trouble for me was that by choosing to explore three places, they never quite got under the skin of any one.
The John Sargent programme, by using a clear AR enthusiast and giving the full hour to the Lake District was much more satisfying. And a BBC TV series "Keep Turning Right", in which a chap sailed around the British Isles in a yacht, did a much superior programme about Walton and Hanford Water, including some very nice sailing in inches of water, and the Red Sea, which brought SW very much to life. It was better because it took much more time in one place, including a lot more about sailing between markers an withies, and the history of explosives manufacturing, the quays and creeks for which explained a lot about the North West Passage.
Warning; this was some time ago, I haven't taken notes, but if you come across it, it's jolly good.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42748 - 07/07/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: 'Britain's Lost Waterlands - Escape to Swallows & Amazons Country'
This was broadcast on BBC Four last night, a rather curious programme which I have to say only caught my attention because of the AR connection, unfortunately this was quite a tenuous one!

Dick Strawbridge and Alice Roberts (with Strawbridge getting most of the screen time) explored the Lake District, the Norfolk Broads, Pin Mill and the Essex Backwaters using AR's books as a starting point. Some attractive aerial shots of all the places which were good to see (particularly my own back yard!) but not much else of interest.

I began to wonder if this had been offered as an idea for a series (by the look of it from the company that make the 'Coast' programmes) and the BBC agreed to give them an hour!
posted via 2.29.89.64 user MTD.


message 42747 - 07/04/16
From: andy clayton, subject: Re: TV alert - no idea if worthwhile
I saw him on TV once or twice in the late 60s. Dave Alan, the comedian, did a programme about English eccentrics which Ivor featured in. He also featured in The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour film as one of the coach passengers. I think John asked him along as he appreciated his poetry.
posted via 146.199.108.8 user cousin_jack.
message 42746 - 07/03/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: TV alert - no idea if worthwhile
Thanks for the link Robert, like you I'd noticed it was on.

The photo on the link of Alice Roberts I'm fairly sure is the Backwaters (I've seen it often enough living nearby!)

Totally off-topic - Ivor Cutler, I wonder how many here will even be aware of him. I first heard of him on John Peel's radio programme.
posted via 95.146.184.224 user MTD.


message 42745 - 07/03/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: TV alert - no idea if worthwhile
Wednesday 6th July on BBC4 at 8.00pm - "Britain's Lost Waterlands - Escape to Swallows & Amazons Country".

The link at the bottom of this post is to the programme's page on the BBC website.

As luck would have it I have got a copy of the Radio Times this week (I bought it for the Ivor Cutler programme that went out this evening (Sunday) on Radio 3). It has a couple of paragraphs about this programme, one on the relevant listings page (p.87) and one on the corresponding features page (p.84). They don't say much that isn't in the website blurb, but it's described as "a gently bucolic diversion" and copper mines are mentioned.

posted via 2.31.118.69 user eclrh.
message 42744 - 07/03/16
From: Paul Mackness, subject: TV alert - no idea if worthwhile
Wednesday 6th July on BBC4 at 8.00pm - "Britain's Lost Waterlands - Escape to Swallows & Amazons Country".

Lake District, Suffolk coast and Broads apparently.
posted via 2.218.14.30 user PaulM.


message 42743 - 07/02/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Hair Colour
Dick goes into Mr Jemmerling and saw "the reddish hair of a man, the bird-man himself" (GN, Chapter 9). The Hullabaloo off the Margoletta, Ronald, is "a big red-haired man" (CC, Chapter 8). Both villains! But not "Red-haired Bill" jn Peter Duck. And Black Jake on the Viper is "a dark man with black hair".



posted via 202.49.156.87 user hugo.


message 42742 - 07/02/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Altounyans and Abercrombies
The S&A paperback editions all have dedications now, although the dedication of "Swallows and Amazons" to the Altounyans "To the Six for whom it was written, in exchange for a pair of slippers" was omitted by Arthur in 1958.

Swallowdale is dedicated to Elizabeth Abercrombie; was she the wife of his friend (1900s on) the poet Lascelles Abercrombie. Or perhaps Lascelles’ sister; if so did Arthur propose to her?

And re the Altounyan family, Taqui was born in 1917 and Mavis in 1920, but was Susan born in 1918 or 1919?

posted via 202.49.156.87 user hugo.


message 42741 - 07/02/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Hair Colour
Pete is "a small black-haired boy" (BS Chapter 3). And Titty says to Mother "It doesen’t matter a bit about your not having red hair" (like Queen Elizabeth I; in SA Chapter 2) without saying what colour it is.
posted via 202.49.156.87 user hugo.
message 42740 - 07/02/16
From: JonathanPearson, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
It's all very well bringing in new readers, which, of course, is a good thing, but will they be disappointed when they open the real Swallows and Amazons and fail to find the aeroplanes and the spies? On the other hand another side of me says, "That's rubbish!" My own introduction to Ransome came when I opened a copy of Winter Holiday and saw the chapter heading "Signalling to Mars". "Fantastic!" I thought, "science fiction!" and settled down to read, only to be captivated in quite a different way. Fifty-four years later, I'm still hooked.
posted via 151.226.183.52 user JonathanPearson.
message 42739 - 07/02/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Sudden endings was: Lydd international
perhaps it was a childhood desire (and sometimes an adulthood one) for them to never end!

I found the perfect workaround for that one: I just start reading one of the others again.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42738 - 06/30/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Sudden endings was: Lydd international
On reflection you're right Peter, perhaps it was a childhood desire (and sometimes an adulthood one) for them to never end!
posted via 95.146.63.203 user MTD.
message 42737 - 06/29/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Sudden endings was: Lydd international
A long description of a homeward journey is in danger of seeming an anticlimax after the main events.

AR knew how to structure his stories, and as you say, a long tail can so easily be an anticlimax.
On the other hand, doesn't SA have a longish "after the storm" sequence, when the mothers come to Wild Cat Island? A relaxing wrap-up?
And of course, WD has a rather splendid homeward journey with Daddy at the helm with a friendly and protective glowing Dutch cigar? These are skilful post-action gentle let-downs.
And, in BS, there's the whole Roaring Donkey sequence with one of AR's best gems of philosophy: "Poor lads, so young and nothing left to live for." I remember not really understanding that when I first read it, but it's been one of the most memorable phrases from the books as I've seen it happen since. Mostly to other people, thank god.
By and large, thinking about it, AR did rather well with the tail ends.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42736 - 06/29/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Abrupt endings, was Re: Lydd international
Not the missing chapter I had in mind!
posted via 92.25.150.197 user Mike_Jones.
message 42735 - 06/29/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Lydd international
I always thought reading PD and ML how AR dealt with the homeward journey in just a few pages, and even now find it slightly disappointing.

That's true of probably every "there and back again" adventure story I've ever read, heard or seen.

As I've just quoted its subtitle let's use The Hobbit as an example. There's an introductory chapter to introduce the characters and tell the backstory; then chapters 2-10, comprising about 60% of the total length of the book, cover the outward journey. Events at the destination occupy chapters 11-17, and even most of chapter 18 despite its title being "The Return Journey". The actual return journey is covered in the remainder of that chapter and the short chapter 19.

It's much the same in Treasure Island, We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea, She and lots of others.

The Lord of the Rings is something of an exception as there are still six chapters to after the climax, two or three of which cover the return journey, though they are short by the standards of the chapters in the early part of the book.

I think it's more or less inevitable. A long description of a homeward journey is in danger of seeming an anticlimax after the main events.

posted via 2.31.118.69 user eclrh.


message 42734 - 06/29/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Abrupt endings, was Re: Lydd international
On rereading GN for the first time in sixty years I wondered if the paperback publishers had left a chapter out. I have this image of Mr. Jemmerling backed up against a rock for all eternity, waiting, like the readers, for some resolution.

posted via 108.16.164.208 user Didymus.
message 42733 - 06/28/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Lydd international
Thanks again Peter, and for bringing back to AR!

I agree about time, in childhood and early adulthood I always thought time was 'slow' now days, weeks and months seem to speed past but I put this down to just getting older. Then my wife's granddaughter when she was 9 or 10 (she's now 20) complained one day of how fast the days and weeks went! So it does seem time is squeezed!

I always thought reading PD and ML how AR dealt with the homeward journey in just a few pages, and even now find it slightly disappointing.
posted via 95.146.63.203 user MTD.


message 42732 - 06/28/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Lydd international
off topic it may be, but a fascinating story and insight in to the world as it was then

Well yes. I'm thinking back to how things changed, especially how the world was so much bigger in AR's early days. Reading the excellent "Last Englisman" life of AR, one of the striking things was how important train journeys were, as they appeared in the stories, and how for AR in Russia they must have been such a large part of his life; getting around was so important, and so difficult. Also, reading about his trips to Russia, starting from Ipswich, wasn't it, where he threw his bag onto the deck as it left port and jumped after it. And it took a day or more to get to the Baltic, where the real hard bit started, playing chess for his life... We have it so easy, it's hard to imagine. The last time I had a trip into Russia (it was still just the Soviet Union, I think) we were going to Krasnoyarsk, to talk to some scientists who'd lived for a year in a sealed stainless steel pod, simulating a trip to Mars. We were held up for four hours (four hours! because they'd run out of jet fuel at Sheremetyevo (the old Moscow airport). It was winter in Siberia, and Russian soldiers really did have snow on their (very comfortable) felt boots.
How long did it take the Wild Cat to get to the Caribbean? And how long does it take a Scarab to sail the length of Windermere? That's a question, by the way; I have no idea. And I know it doesn't really have a single answer.
Apart from the phenomenal increase in general wealth, it seems to me that the greatest change has been the squeezing of time. An Irish friend of mine used to say, when we tried to get him to hurry a little, "My old dad used to say, 'when God made time, he made plenty'."
I think that was a heck of lot more true in AR's time than it is now.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42731 - 06/27/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Lydd international
Peter - off topic it may be, but a fascinating story and insight in to the world as it was then (and other AR fans lives!) Thank you.
posted via 95.146.63.203 user MTD.
message 42730 - 06/27/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Lydd international
the one I was talking about was called the Silver Arrow

Yes! Now you mention it, it all comes flooding back. I never used it, because by that time I reckon I had the Mini, and that was what I used. Of course it was named after the Golden Arrow, which was the previous luxury link to Paris.
My cross channel life started in (I think) 1945, after VE Day and before VJ Day. My uncle, Dr Marcel Junod (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Junod) was being posted to Manchuria to inspect Japanese POW camps there, and asked to see us before he went, as it was potentially a dodgy job. He'd previously represented the Red Cross in Abyssinia, the Spanish Civil War, the Second World War in Europe, during which we'd see him when he commuted (more or less) between Berlin and London via Lisbon, and now Japan. He got us a special visa. We travelled on the packet "Canterbury" via Newhaven Dieppe because Calais harbour was totally smashed up and unusable. The channel had paths swept clear of mines, although sailors were posted as lookouts for random floaters. My sister and I were 3 and 5 years old, and travelled overnight in the ship's infirmary, which was wonderfully comfortable. Going via Victoria in the evening, I vividly remember the row of engines getting up steam, calm evening, smoke rising straight up... The morning was gorgeous, bright sunshine, blue water and flat calm. I'd never been on a ship before. At Dieppe, the stevedores handling the gangplanks were calling out "Regardez les petits Anglais!" I was told that we were the first civilian children to cross the channel after the war. The train journey to Paris was very slow (some of the track seemed to have been laid directly on the side of the streets; all the bridges were down, spans lying N-wise in the river and the train crossed on military box girder bridges just nearby) You can imagine how wildly exciting it was for a little boy. We stayed with my aunt in Paris, which compared with London at the time was incredibly lively, Jeeps with military police in white helmets rattling across the cobbles, everything smelt of sewage and black tobacco.
From Paris to Geneva, we continued by Swissair DC3, to chocolate! Chocolate! CHOCOLATE!
No subsequent trip was remotely as extraordinary. And I'm sorry if this is off topic, or I've posted the story before; it's just such a key memory and I really hope you'll forgive me. I'm an old codger now...

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42729 - 06/27/16
From: Peter Truelove, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Yes..........spot on Dave. Having seen the trailer and now the whole film at a TARS pre-release showing in Kendal, I can confirm that "The Lake of Adventure" is just what it is. As a representation of A.R.'s work and Swallows and Amazons in particular...... the connection is somewhat tenuous. That said it is a cracking good adventure story for youngsters with enough nods in A.R.'s direction for the associations with the original work to peep in here and there. Give it a go.... I want to see it again. Absolutely not for the purist but great fun. Very fast lugsail dimghy (hint.... there is an engine involved).
posted via 95.144.141.194 user jacpet.
message 42728 - 06/24/16
From: Dan Lind, subject: Re: St Petersburg
Isn't that the place from where he wrote the little poem about bugs - big enough to carry you away - or something like that?
posted via 70.78.126.205 user captain.
message 42727 - 06/24/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Old AR
Imagine the note AR would have written after last night.

Wales finally beats England to the punch.

God is dead -
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.


message 42726 - 06/23/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Lydd international
Not quite the same service. I've remembered now, the one I was talking about was called the Silver Arrow. I can't remember how we got to Lydd, but there was a passenger plane (not the car ferry Bristol Freighter) to Le Touquet, and an SNCF railcar direct from the plane to Paris.
posted via 72.2.235.238 user awhakim.
message 42725 - 06/22/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Lydd international
There was also a rail/air passenger service, with a special branch line into Le Touquet airport. A railcar for Paris Nord came right up to the plane. That sounds like the route Peter used.

Not that sophisticated. When I did my trip, the nearest railhead was at Etaples town, with no obvious way to reach it. There were people using the air bridge the way it was intended, with cars, and I did a quick canvas as they unloaded, getting a lift into the town from a nice bunch of chaps in a Land Rover, who dropped me off at the railway station. Where, with comms and computers yet to be invented, they didn't know that they shouldn't sell me a Paris-Geneva ticket. That was a real stroke of luck.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42724 - 06/22/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: A better idea for a film...
I'd love to see a decent film of Winter Holiday, it could be a real natural with the storyline.
posted via 24.156.57.171 user dthewlis.
message 42723 - 06/22/16
From: Patrick Fox, subject: Re: A better idea for a film...
Its a clever idea - the story seen from the perspective of the Amazons is significantly different. It does, however, end in "defeat" in the war, which probably means it works less well in narrative terms. And once the war is over, the two perspectives more or less become one anyway.

The thing that most annoys me about the new film - which, having seen the trailer, I don't think I'll be watching - is that rather than needing to vandalise the storyline of Swallows and Amazons itself the script writers could have used any of nine other existing stories starring the same characters which have not been filmed before. My eight year old daughter was asking just last night if there was not a film of Pigeon Post, and Sophie Neville's book reveals that unfilmed screenplays were written not just for that book but for Great Northern and Winter Holiday too, any of which I'd love to see on screen...

Cheers
Patrick
posted via 185.58.164.43 user PJF.


message 42722 - 06/22/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Lydd international
Couldn't you have hitched a ride with a friendly wherryman who could have passed you in to a tugboat skipper and then on to some strange barge owning couple? Much more Ransomeish.

Yes, but I had this problem. I wanted to get there before the next year...
The AR sidebar would be him throwing his bag onto the boat to catch a passage to the Baltic and on to Russia. But holding on to his typewriter. AR had his priorities right.
Me; when I finally got to Geneva, I helped my mum hang up animal drawings in her classroom, for Christmas. Smashing pictures, great Christmas.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42721 - 06/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Thanks Alan, I did think there was some event behind that part of WD.
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.
message 42720 - 06/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Lydd international
Ah well, I've still got the passport (somewhere!)
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.
message 42719 - 06/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: A better idea for a film...
The worrying thing is the producers are probably thinking about contacting you for the 'rights'!
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.
message 42718 - 06/21/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Lydd international
Silver City were certainly running the Lydd-Le Touquet car ferry service in 1959, at least until the mid 60s. There was also a rail/air passenger service, with a special branch line into Le Touquet airport. A railcar for Paris Nord came right up to the plane. That sounds like the route Peter used.
I forget when it was discontinued; probably the early 70s.
As for US visas in expired passports, my understanding is they only work for the validity of the next passport. I have used one like that, but I'm now on to the 3rd generation passport.
posted via 72.2.235.238 user awhakim.
message 42717 - 06/21/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
AR certainly had problems bringing Eugenia into England, which is why he lurked in the Baltic for so long. He was married at the British Consulate in Reval (now Tallinn, Estonia) in 1924, and then of course could bring her in legally as his wife with no special formalities.
He wrote a wonderful 'Saturday Essay' for the Manchester Guardian on the hazards of crossing frontiers with difficult customs men. The episode in WD is probably revisiting that territory.
posted via 72.2.235.238 user awhakim.
message 42716 - 06/21/16
From: Andy, subject: A better idea for a film...
Amazons and Swallows.

The Amazons are in trouble. Since acquiring a sailing boat last year, after a mere rowing boat in previous years, Nancy and Peggy Blackett are eager to use it on the lake during their summer holidays, and especially to use it to camp on their island.

But things have gone sour.

Their Uncle Jim has wanted nothing to do with them throughout the holidays, their Great Aunt Marie has turned up, demanding that they act as perfect young ladies, present for every mealtime, and - as she's about to return to Harrogate, and given them a day free - they spot campfire smoke on Wildcat Island showing them that a group of non-lake children, with access to the Holly Howe dinghy, have started to camp there.

Everything looks bleak...

Andy
posted via 92.22.42.117 user Andy.


message 42714 - 06/21/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Lydd international
Couldn't you have hitched a ride with a friendly wherryman who could have passed you in to a tugboat skipper and then on to some strange barge owning couple? Much more Ransomeish.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42713 - 06/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Lydd international
Thanks for that Peter, quite an adventure!
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.
message 42712 - 06/21/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Lydd international
Branching off from AR for a moment Peter - Lydd airport in '67, my family had moved nearby a year or so before (I was 14), I didn't realise Lydd took international flights.

Silver City used to run a cross-channel air ferry service, using Bristol Freighters. First from Lympne, then later (certainly by '67) from Lydd. I drove Minis, it wasn't terribly expensive, and so much better than the ferries, that I always used it. The French end of the service was at Le Touquet. So yes, they were frequent, international, 20 minute flights.
They turned out to be a life saver one year. I was at school in London, my parents lived in Geneva. One Christmas, the continent was cut off by fog. All flights from Heathrow were cancelled, no further bookings being taken. All the ferries were confined to port; no way home....
I checked, and Silver City were still flying. I had a friend who lived in Ashford. So I got a ticket there by train, a lift by car to Lympne, plane to Le Touquet, hitched on one of the cars to the station and bought a through ticket to Geneva. Just as well; changing stations in Paris, I found that all airports there were socked in too, and they had stopped selling train tickets to Geneva. But my ticket from Le Touquet was still valid, and I got the train (one through carriage and a sleeping car) at the Gare de Lyon. A nightmare; standing room only in the corridor, so crowded we put the luggage in the connecting accordion so there was nothing to sit on. I tried sitting in there, but it was so cold and draughty that I could only bear it for half an hour. And I thought I was tough in those days. Eight and a half hours to Geneva.
Boo.
But it was a lovely Christmas.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42711 - 06/21/16
From: P L Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Sinbad should have been quarantined, as you say.

My apologies. It was Adam Quinan, quoting the BBC.
Thanks, Adam, for that info.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42710 - 06/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Branching off from AR for a moment Peter - Lydd airport in '67, my family had moved nearby a year or so before (I was 14), I didn't realise Lydd took international flights.

As for the passport, I'm sure I've read somewhere the US visa is still valid!
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.


message 42709 - 06/21/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
I still have a blue passport with an old USA visa stamped in it!

With the corner cut off, and a hole stamped through the body? I had one like that too. I remember keeping it for the US visa...

I was just probably thinking too much on the comment, though didn't AR have trouble getting Evgenia in to the UK?

I can't remember about that, but it stands to reason; when he brought her over, there would have been visa requirements. Especially during the Intervention in Russia.
When I brought my unblushing Swiss bride over here in '67, they checked her out at Lydd in a few minutes, and put a tiny triangular stamp on a crowded page in her Swiss passport, and that was all it took; she was in, and resident for ever.
I'd forgotten about the rabies regulations. Sinbad should have been quarantined, as you say. I don't know if AR was making a special point about Commander Walker's arrival having been notified to the immigration office, so that they were especially accommodating (which he showed clearly enough).
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42708 - 06/21/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
I wondered when the anti-rabies quarantine rules for pets and other animals was brought in?

The BBC story about the relaxing of the regulations in 2011 says:

"Dogs entering the UK have been subject to the quarantine since 1897. Cats were added in 1928, and ferrets in 2004".

Surely a random kitten picked up at sea with no papers and provenance should have been locked away before it could set a paw on land and if they had tried to smuggle it in and been caught, the Walkers would have been heavily fined. Of course that would have meant Sinbad being unavailable for Bridget luring duties in Secret Water.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 42707 - 06/21/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
I remember those days as well Peter (I still have a blue passport with an old USA visa stamped in it!) I was just probably thinking too much on the comment, though didn't AR have trouble getting Evgenia in to the UK?
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.
message 42706 - 06/21/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
was AR making a comment about immigration etc (the difficulties of it) in the bringing of the cat back in WDMTGTS?

Don't you think that might be a subtlety too far?
He was a children's writer, full of tradecraft, and he knew that the kitten would be a splendid addition to please his readers. And the rescue would make a very exciting episode.
He did include the scene with the Customs and Immigration officers, but at the time (and until the EEC in the early '60s) that was the way things were (I well remember the boring visas and having a passport full of official stamps- and how irritating it was at the port of entry).
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42705 - 06/20/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
An amusing point! More likely The Goblin would have been used in the evacuation of Dunkirk.

But it occurs to me, was AR making a comment about immigration etc (the difficulties of it) in the bringing of the cat back in WDMTGTS?
posted via 2.28.84.113 user MTD.


message 42704 - 06/20/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
And in a very topical sequel The Goblin could be used to ferry illegal immigrants/refugee children across from Flushing.
posted via 92.25.159.196 user Mike_Jones.
message 42703 - 06/20/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
OK, I don't see S&A as a 'film noir' but surely there's room for a new approach - I mean really new.

Yes, of course. How about transferring it directly into the present time, emphasising the health and safety stuff, and modern "fear for the children" that now seems so common- probably due to present day crowding, so that the children would continually encounter people on their climbs and treks. And within that, have children that have read the books and are determined to have AR '30s-style adventures.
That could set up plenty of tensions that an audience could empathise with, including a critical view of our contemporary safety obsessions. Maybe they could befriend "dodgy" foreign children, say Syrians, who would be tainted with "terrorist" associations, who turn out to be absolutely nothing of the kind, just good friends who join in the adventures, to the doubts of their parents too. Resolution; they have their splendid adventure, enjoy themselves triumphantly and achieve great things despite general suspicion. Cragfast sheep saved, deportation order against Syrian parents suspended...
Howzabout it?
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42702 - 06/19/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: St Petersburg
Having just had a short visit, I can report that AR's Glinka street apartment (judging from notices in the windows) appears to be available to rent.
posted via 72.2.235.238 user awhakim.
message 42701 - 06/19/16
From: Dan Lind, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Looks like a WEBLEY .38 SHORT SIX SHOT REVOLVER - Often called the Wobbley Webley
posted via 70.78.126.205 user captain.
message 42700 - 06/19/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
This is a film, not a Sunday evening 'period costume' TV serial.

Yes, Sunday period serials are well done as a rule and I watch them myself, but what I meant was that a film maker can experiment (finance permitting) and be daring with interpretation and technical methods. OK, I don't see S&A as a 'film noir' but surely there's room for a new approach - I mean really new. Maybe the trailer flags up one or two fresh ideas but it signifies the same dramatic and pictorial concept.
posted via 86.182.41.55 user Peter_H.


message 42699 - 06/19/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
No, but if it isn't an improvement then it ought to be different

From the trailer it does look pretty different. Some similar elements, but a completely different feel. The 1974 film was deliberately idyllic, very gentle cup-of-tea Englishness, and it worked very well.
This one looks (as far as you can tell from a trailer) more brassy, shinier. Different emphasis.

This is a film, not a Sunday evening 'period costume' TV serial.

I'd say the historical TV serials are nowadays often more true to life, have more philosophy behind them and are better written than cinema films. Much of that having to do with them having more time, over several episodes, to tell their stories.
We'll have to see. I'm afraid that this is a case of "Hurry up and wait".

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42698 - 06/18/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
It doesn't have to be an improvement

No, but if it isn't an improvement then it ought to be different - one or the other. From the trailer I see another version of the 1974 film - desperately shouting children against a background of the usual jolly rollicking music, skull and crossbones flapping in wind machines etc, except that they have tacked on the spy nonsense at the end and the cast is less well chosen. It was fine in 1974, but now I would expect a total new approach. This is a film, not a Sunday evening 'period costume' TV serial.
posted via 86.182.41.55 user Peter_H.


message 42697 - 06/18/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
And if a slightly twisted story line brings new readers to S&A, how can that not be a good thing?

We should be promoting this film everywhere we can. Take the grandkids or the neighborhood kids and engage them in a conversation of the differences over ice-cream afterwards.
posted via 184.151.63.163 user rlcossar.


message 42696 - 06/18/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
If they wanted a Buchan-based film starring children, it would presumably have to feature the Gorbals Die-Hards or Dick Hannay's son. I can see the attraction of the Ransome children.
posted via 92.25.147.112 user Mike_Jones.
message 42695 - 06/18/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Going only on comments (haven't seen the trailer yet) it sounds a bit like an attempt to conflate Ransome and Blyton, maybe "The Lake of Adventure".
posted via 24.156.9.237 user dthewlis.
message 42694 - 06/18/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Going only on comments (haven't seen the trailer yet) it sounds a bit like an attempt to conflate Ransome and Blyton, maybe "The Lake of Adventure".
posted via 24.156.9.237 user dthewlis.
message 42693 - 06/18/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Interesting trailer, but how is this an improvement on the 1974 Claude Whatham film?

It depends what you call an improvement- it doesn't have to be that. They are clearly totally different, and made with a different idea in mind.
If it sells as well, or better, that will be all that's required of it.
I wonder why they chose SA, rather than one of the Buchan novels, which I would have thought more in line with their ideas?
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42692 - 06/18/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
I'll probably buy it on DVD when it's sold off cheap! But no doubt us cynics will be ignored and it will be a massive hit!
posted via 95.146.189.24 user MTD.
message 42691 - 06/18/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
It doesn't have to be an improvement. It can introduce a slight twist to the plot. I bet that, particularly in Britain, that there will be a measurable increase in book sales this fall and in my mind any increase of interest in this 80 year old series of books is a good thing.

I'm looking forward to it.
posted via 184.151.37.93 user rlcossar.


message 42690 - 06/18/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Short answer -- it's not.

Personally, I have no intention of seeing it.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42689 - 06/17/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Interesting trailer, but how is this an improvement on the 1974 Claude Whatham film?
posted via 86.182.41.55 user Peter_H.
message 42688 - 06/17/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
I share your doubts about the apparent age gap between the older and younger Swallows. If J and S were fully fledged teenagers they would not tolerate camping with very young siblings. I was also taken aback by the Amazons' headdresses, but I thought I saw them wearing their red caps when actually sailing.
posted via 92.25.147.112 user Mike_Jones.
message 42687 - 06/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
Having watched the trailer again, some second thoughts.

If Barbara Altounyan was annoyed by what she had heard they had done, will she be really angry when she sees this?

Seems as if they have done as the producers of the James Bond franchise have done, bought the title and the character's names and used them to make the film they actually wanted to produce.

Casting seems a bit odd, John and Susan too old then Titty and Roger too young.

The Amazon's masks and wigs goes against the very character of Nancy, she clearly sees being an Amazon pirate a real and serious business (in WH when meeting Dick and Dorothea she asks somewhat frustratedly 'But what are you in real life!' apologies if I've misquoted here.) The two of them in the trailer look as though they are children playing games. Would red caps mark them out as Communists (and so spoil the plot), to borrow a notion from an Arlo Guthrie song!

The reviews upon release in August will be very interesting.
posted via 95.150.15.193 user MTD.


message 42686 - 06/17/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
If it comes to Canada, I'll go see it. It might help me hook my eight grandchildren
posted via 184.151.37.93 user rlcossar.
message 42685 - 06/16/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
From the look of it, he was skipping a stone and it kept going long enough to hit the houseboat. So, an accident. They presumably thought it a more reasonable cause for Capt. Flint going off at the Swallows than his seeing them sail by a half hour after the firework went off and concluding that they were responsible.

I had a bit of trouble with the anachronistic floatplane, too.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.


message 42684 - 06/16/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
What was powering "Swallow" at 2.06? I can't believe a lug-sailed dinghy could travel that fast without a motor!

Yes, I was wondering about that- I was looking for the tow rope. And there's a modern Cessna float plane in grey drab at one point.
But these are nerd points... And quite right too...
I was also wondering about John breaking a houseboat window with a stone. Not very John-like.
Best to forget the AR connection and take it as a children's film. It might well be okay.
I liked Nancy's accent, and Mrs Walker might as well be Scottish as Australian (I'm presuming that they've left out the bit where she talks about being in the outback as a girl), but I'm not sure about the Amazons' "savage" wigs. Maybe red caps not thought startling enough...
I think it'll be worth a watch, but preferably on DVD, for me.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42683 - 06/16/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
What was powering "Swallow" at 2.06? I can't believe a lug-sailed dinghy could travel that fast without a motor!

I'm willing to keep an open mind and will be going to see the whole film.
posted via 109.150.85.83 user MartinH.


message 42682 - 06/16/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
First thought - what a strange collection of accents! Particularly Mrs Walker!
posted via 95.150.15.193 user MTD.
message 42681 - 06/16/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
The reference to Hitchcock's Thirty-Nine Steps (Captain Flint clinging to outside of railway carriage) confirms what we already knew; it's a "based on" approach, not a faithful adaptation. But that didn't stop Hitchcock's mangling of Buchan's plot making a great film, so the new S and A may be a good film on its own terms.

On balance, the trailer made me want to take my grandson to see it when the time comes.
posted via 92.25.153.13 user Mike_Jones.


message 42680 - 06/16/16
From: M Jones, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
There’s some grave turning going on I fear! I am sure I would be quite interested to see it if it had no relation to Swallows and Amazons (it may only in characters and name alone!) It does not seem to connect with that sacred feel that the canon has… there’s some grave turning going on!

posted via 192.171.44.41 user MJone21.
message 42679 - 06/16/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
As a trailer for some children's spy-thriller set in the 30's, fair enough.

But it feels so NOT 'Swallows and Amazons'. I'll pass, thank you.

Andy
posted via 92.22.57.93 user Andy.


message 42678 - 06/16/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: New Swallows and Amazons film trailer
So what do you think of this?


posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.
message 42677 - 06/14/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Lakeland Cam shows slate plaque
My second somewhat-PP-related item today:

The Lakeland Cam visited the closed Kirkstone Slate Quarry and pictured, among other things, a plaque mentioning slate and fool's gold.

As always with the Cam, if the picture of the plaque has gone from its front page try the "This Week on the Cam" button.

posted via 2.31.117.241 user eclrh.
message 42676 - 06/14/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Coniston copper mine preserved with Lottery cash
Today I have two items somewhat related to PP - both mentioning fool's gold! I'll put them in two separate posts.

First, a BBC news item: Coniston copper mine preserved with Lottery cash.

posted via 2.31.117.241 user eclrh.
message 42675 - 06/13/16
From: Mark Walker, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
If Ed or anyone else would like to see the article resulting from the 'chocolate' research, email me on buz_zook (at) hotmail (dot) com

Cheers
Mark
posted via 124.168.177.159 user Buzzook.


message 42674 - 06/09/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: S & A Still popular
Using Amazon listings as a proxy, it would appear that SA is still quite popular on the UK website.
........
However in the US it is not nearly so popular

I suspect that this is the heart of it; for the US producers, SA is rather a punt.
It might do all right in Britain, but the British market these days is "nice to have", and to get a decent return these days you need to sell more widely, especially in the USA. So they'll be very sensitive to things that might make the film fizzle over there. Hence the Dick Barton stuff, and the name change.
The film might take off- stranger things have been known- but on the whole, I think maybe they're being quite brave.

posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42673 - 06/06/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: S & A Still popular
Using Amazon listings as a proxy, it would appear that SA is still quite popular on the UK website.
Amazon Bestsellers Rank: 820 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
#2 in Books > Children's Books > Fiction > Sports
#20 in Books > Children's Books > Fiction > Action & Adventure
#22 in Books > Children's Books > Fiction > Classics

However in the US it is not nearly so popular
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #505,820 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#862 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Children's eBooks > Sports & Outdoors
#910 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Children's eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Classics
#2919 in Books > Children's Books > Sports & Outdoors

In Canada it seems more popular in some (possibly limited categories)
Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #3,225 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
#6 in Books > Children's Books > Sports & Outdoors > Sports
#6 in Books > Teens > School & Sports > Fiction
#64 in Books > Children's Books > Classics

Checking the rest of the series shows that sales are much lower for them.
posted via 99.227.224.192 user Adam.


message 42672 - 06/06/16
From: Duncan, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
Oh I'm disappointed that Melanie Phillips likes Swallows and Amazons. Most "celebrity" fans are quite likeable...
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.
message 42671 - 06/03/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: S & A Still popular
I suppose that the real test of this has to be the current world-wide sales figures, including Kindle sales, although that will of course include old farts (as in: me) who buy and read only Kindle copies because that way I can carry them around most easily.
As for the Cape Greenbacks and the paperbacks, let the bookshelf take the strain...
My Google-Fu isn't up to finding the numbers quickly, and many parents will be passing their existing books to their children, but that would be the only valid measure.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42670 - 06/02/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
Martin asks: I am rather out of touch with what youngsters are reading today. Do the popular books still feature the freedoms of those I mentioned?

The answer is yes! But not all books, of course. Here's a sample of the most popular multi-book authors from my daughters' bookshelves (last 5 years, approx). I am generalising/summarising heavily here...

The Hunger Games: Child protagonist is main carer for her family (trespasses daily into massive woodland area to hunt for food), then goes into an arena to battle other children to the death. Adults stick to politics.

Anything by David Walliams: Child protagonist usually has to sort out troublesome adult. Family are present but often unhelpful. Set within confines of a town.

Anything by Jacqueline Wilson: Stories usually depict dysfunctional family, or deal with first romances. Set within confines of a town.

Anything by Michael Morpurgo: Huge variety. I can think of at least one which qualifies as exploration/freedom/adventure with no parents.

Anything by Louis Sachar: Varies. One or two have exploration/freedom/adventure with no parents.

Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Set in school and at home.

Artemis Fowl series: Child protagonist is a criminal mastermind!

Alex Rider series: Child protagonist is an international spy! Adventure occurs in a different way, where the adult safety net comes and goes.
posted via 81.156.112.198 user Magnus.


message 42669 - 06/01/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: S & A Still popular
I was teaching some very basic navigation to a mixed group of young sailors last night and mentioned leading marks. Immediately one said "like Swallows And Amazons". A quick show of hands and I found that 3 of the group of 5 had read at least one of the books. Of course this was not a good sample - these were those youngsters who had an interest in sailing, possibly stimulated by the books. Despite the fears in some quartets that children are wedded to their digital devices I think there is still the same interest for the outdoors and adventure, we don't always recognise and encourage it.
posted via 86.145.173.240 user MartinH.
message 42668 - 06/01/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
Ed is quite right. The best children's books, and the best childhoods, are where the adults take a step back and facilitate the adventures rather than control them. Swallows and Amazons, Harry Potter, The Railway Children all feature situations that allow children freedom to explore their worlds. Usually there is an adult safety net somewhere in the background but usually not interfering unless required.

I am rather out of touch with what youngsters are reading today. Do the popular books still feature the freedoms of those I mentioned?
posted via 86.145.173.240 user MartinH.


message 42667 - 06/01/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
Ed is quite right. The best children's books, and the best childhoods, are where the adults take a step back and facilitate the adventures rather than control them. Swallows and Amazons, Harry Potter, The Railway Children all feature situations that allow children freedom to explore their worlds. Usually there is an adult safety net somewhere in the background but usually not interfering unless required.

I am rather out of touch with what youngsters are reading today. Do the popular books still feature the freedoms of those I mentioned?
posted via 86.145.173.240 user MartinH.


message 42666 - 06/01/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
A hard-hitter, certainly, but unkind to describe Commander Walker as travelling on "his merchant ship" when he was in Malta but under orders for Hong Kong.
posted via 92.25.156.20 user Mike_Jones.
message 42665 - 05/31/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Hair Colour
Interesting, despite many readings of both books these references have passed me by!
posted via 95.146.63.80 user MTD.
message 42664 - 05/31/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
Melanie Phillips! Now that is a surprise, and as you say a 'hard-hitter'.

It does begin to look that you are right, its all 'good' publicity for a film that may have not got the attention they wanted. Was this the problem with the first attempt that was abandoned a few years before?
posted via 95.146.63.80 user MTD.


message 42663 - 05/31/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
So well put Luke!
posted via 95.146.63.80 user MTD.
message 42662 - 05/31/16
From: LukeDolman, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
My apologies if I'm rehashing anything. I can't view the Times story online.

This film would seem destined to be the proverbial "Curate's Egg" - good in parts but not really pleasing anyone.

I'm just imagining a herd of focus-group-typical teens at a cinema...

"Hey Dude! Let's catch 'Transformer Turtle Heroes Versus Alien Mind Apocalypse'! It's like yeah, soooo machines 'n' slime duuuude"

"Nahh, that sounds totes rank man... I wunna go see Swallows 'n' Amazons, 'cuz I hearz it's got a SPY in it. I wasna gunna see it 'cuz I was a bit worrid I might giggle at a girlz name, but it's all good now 'cuz they changed her to Tatty instead".

Hmmm. No. Call me cynical but I can't see the 'yoof' flocking to this one. So why risk alienating your core, target audience by changing the plot and character names of such a well known and well loved story? Numerous costume dramas and adaptations of literary masterpieces have shown that there is a domestic and indeed worldwide demand for the gentler, genuine article. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if the producers had stuck to their guns (if they ever had guns to stick to) and simply trusted AR's storytelling?

I well remember how utterly disappointed I was when I finally watched the 1986 "Biggles" film as a teenager and slowly realized the full significance of the sub title "Adventures in Time". It was terrible and I turned it off halfway through. Ironically, I saw "Aces High" (1976) for the first time, shortly afterwards, and loved it. I've watched it at least half a dozen times since; this latest with my own son.

We don't need to dumb down literary adaptations for children and I would once have expected more of the BBC (Kitty "blip" aside). Sadly we seem to be living in an era where the satire of "W1A" is truly art, imitating life, imitating art.

Best regards
Luke



posted via 64.124.63.254 user LukeDolman.


message 42661 - 05/31/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
The fascination I felt as a child reading SWALLOWS AND AMAZONS
was in feeling the excitement of their being "on their own."
They set up their tents, gathered firewood, made a fire and
boiled water for tea and for boiled eggs. They pan fried
fish they had caught themselves. They were able to get away
from the immediate presence of the adults.

Of course, the adults played their part, on certain occasions,
as when Mom rowed down to the island with additional cargo that
did not fit in SWALLOW on her first trip to the island. They
had daily contact with Mrs Dixon to get their daily supply of
eggs. Although not all that blatantly stated, there was that
likelihood that there was communication between Mrs. Dixon an
Mom back at Holly Howe. The children sent written notes by
"native post" to Mom, mainly to say all was ok. Mom did come
by and visit the evening Titty was found to be alone on the
island and shared the cooking with her as "man Friday." The
day after the storm, the natives swarmed in to see how their
young people managed, with Mrs. Blackett, Captain Flint, Mr.
and Mrs.Dixon, Mr. Jackson with their mom. To me, it was
significant that with the storm pending, the adults did
not come to take them home before the storm, but let them
stay - and then of course immediately afterwards come to check
out the results.

But for the most part, it was the children doing for themselves,
and it that was the delight of the adventure that I felt as
a young reader of the story.

Then, I saw a photo of the four actors that are to play the
roles of the SWALLOWS. I was disappointed. There were two
ADULTS with two young children. That ADULT presence takes
away the whole point of the adventure. They are not the
"John" and "Susan" I knew from the story.

As for Nazi Spies? That just is not a part of the story. That
would be just as meaningful as a visit by Harry Potter flying
to the Wildcat camp on his broom. And how about getting a WWII
Sunderland flying boat to land on The Lake.

But there is a worth while change yet to be considered,
and that would be to call this "movie" any thing else other
than SWALLOWS AND AMAZONS, because that is not what it is.
It is not about the friends I enjoyed in my childhood, and
in the many times I have slipped away to be with them again,
to shed my years, and to once again be young, to be a part
of this wonderful rite of passage to learn to take on
a certain degree of self-responsibility.

Think I'll go watch my 1974 movie again, the one with FOUR
CHILDREN camping out together. As Walter Cronkite used
to say: "And that's the way it was."

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 76.177.72.133 user Kisered.


message 42660 - 05/31/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Hair Colour
From 'The Big Six', chapter IX:
A smallish boy with large black-rimmed spectacles and a girl with straw-coloured plaits flying in the wind raced across the lawn to join Tom at the water’s edge.

From, 'Secret Water', chapter VIII:
A boy had come through the Speedy’s fore (and only) hatch.... He had a mop of stiff sandy hair. His eyes shone bright blue in a face burnt brick red by the sun.

Are these the only times a main character's hair colour is mentioned? I tried searching for the word "ginger" and got more results than I wanted!

The illustrations, being limited by black ink, often suggest everyone has dark hair. Dot in particular I thought was dark brown/black-haired for years, especially after seeing photos of Tabitha Ransome with huge plaits. I had forgotten the "straw coloured" reference above.
posted via 81.156.112.198 user Magnus.


message 42659 - 05/31/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A film (again & again)
Can't argue with Ms Phillips.

Bowdlerisation should be right out (as has been said here before). If you don't like something the way it was written, then either grimace and use it the way it is, or don't use it at all. Changing it to suit your own whim-of-the-moment is on an equally evil scale as plagiarising, in my view.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42658 - 05/31/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: New S&A film (again & again)
On it goes . . . Today it's Melanie Phillips in a half-page piece in The Times, entitled "How dare the BBC mess with my favourite book". Usual stuff, but Ms Phillips is a hard-hitter:

"That is why renaming her [Titty] is a kind of sacrilege. It airbrushes her out and replaces her by someone else. Excising her name in a pointed sensitivity to any smutty overtone also corrupts the very innocence at the core of the story."

I wonder why Christine Langan or Nick Barton, or someone from the film producer's office, has not replied to this press onslaught? Is it because there is no such thing as bad publicity?
posted via 81.129.95.6 user Peter_H.


message 42657 - 05/29/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
On the subject of the linkage(s) between the Altounyan children and the Swallows, see http://allthingsransome.net/inspirations/index.html. This page had a number of contributors, in particular Roger Wardale and Ted Alexander, in assessing the actual people who were inspirations for Ransome's characters. It's worth noting that Ransome's predilection towards assembling a location as a montage of bits of multiple places seems to be true for major characters as well.


posted via 47.208.56.168 user dthewlis.


message 42656 - 05/29/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
"...they have to be of the right age, height and gender, and they need to be good actors."

It seems that the characters who play John and Susan in this new story, while of the right gender, are neither of the right age nor height. How good they will be as actors remains to be seen.

But unless their acting is truly bad, it needn't really matter. In the 1974 film, very occasionally, some of the children's acting is a bit stilted. These child actors were by no means professionals, but Whatham cleverly got past almost all of that by telling them about the scene and the sort of things he wanted them to say, then letting them say them in their own way.

I just do wish these film-people wouldn't fiddle....
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42655 - 05/29/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
I agree that Barbara Altounyan goes too far in criticising the BBC for making the Swallows so English. After all, they have an English naval officer for a father and an Australian mother.

Yes. They are AR's stories, nobody else's, and although a lot of details are left obscure- for instance, what colour was their hair, and what was the actual year in which each adventure happened, that part of it is explicit and absolutely nailed down.
In the new film, from the material released so far, the only real issue of that kind would be the ages of the two elders.

But a tremendous amount will depend on the script. If that's well done, many of the details will become unimportant.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42654 - 05/29/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
Barbara Altounyan then sums up the Titty/Tatty dispute, but then she adds “In the latest BBC version all the characters are cast as blue-eyed, red-cheeked and blond. Is this true? Not a bit. The real-life children were dark-haired with Middle Eastern complexions. The Altounyan children were in fact Anglo-Syrians . . .”

The book is a work of fiction about two groups of children, the Walkers and the Blacketts. It is not a biographical book about Altounyans and Collingwoods or Smiths and Joneses.

The characters were inspired by the Altounyans and doubtless many others, some consciously and some sub-consciously. It is not about real people any more than Rowling wrote about the real Harry Potter.

posted via 109.152.90.102 user MartinH.


message 42653 - 05/29/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: New S&A Film- an older adaptation gives hope.
As pointed out in subsequent posts, there were indeed two productions under the title "S&A Forever", one of Coot Club and one of The Big Six. The links on this page http://allthingsransome.net/vault/index.html point to the IMDB entries for both episodes.
posted via 47.208.56.168 user dthewlis.
message 42652 - 05/29/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
With regard to blond hair colour, it does look from AR's drawings that some of the children, at least, have dark hair - Susan for instance. However, Orla Hill, who is to play Susan, has blond hair. I don't mind that - it is difficult enough to cast child characters - they have to be of the right age, height and gender, and they need to be good actors. Orla Hill may simply have been the best for the part, but we can't really judge that until we see the film.
posted via 81.129.95.6 user Peter_H.
message 42651 - 05/29/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
I agree that Barbara Altounyan goes too far in criticising the BBC for making the Swallows so English. After all, they have an English naval officer for a father and an Australian mother. And in his autobiography AR, perhaps unkindly, objected to the family's over-identification with the Swallows.
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42650 - 05/29/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
I agree that Barbara Altounyan goes too far in criticising the BBC for making the Swallows so English. After all, they have an English naval officer for a father and an Australian mother. And in his autobiography AR, perhaps unkindly, objected to the family's over-identification with the Swallows.
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42649 - 05/29/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
Thank you for that Peter, I was planning to use some quotes in a further post - you've use the ones I had in mind!

I agree, especially the change of ending, I ask again why?
posted via 95.146.63.80 user MTD.


message 42648 - 05/29/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S & A Film (Again)
The Sunday Times article is titled “Swallows and Airbrushes”. As Mike says, it’s behind the Murdoch paywall, so here are some extracts:

For older generations S&A isn’t just a children’s book, it is a religion. Its characters might as well be part of their own family . . . .Christine Langan, the BBC producer . .promised that the film . . .would remain faithful to the spirit of the book. She was being economical with the truth. My family are furious.”

Barbara Altounyan then sums up the Titty/Tatty dispute, but then she adds “In the latest BBC version all the characters are cast as blue-eyed, red-cheeked and blond. Is this true? Not a bit. The real-life children were dark-haired with Middle Eastern complexions. The Altounyan children were in fact Anglo-Syrians . . .”

(I personally don’t agree with Barbara on that last point – AR surely had a right to create his child characters as he wished, and it is clear from the books that the S, A & Ds are English – no mention is made in the books of an Asian ancestry, so I think the BBC has got that one right.)

But Barbara’s last point makes me rather angry, if it’s true. “We have just learnt that poor Titty has come in for yet another hammering . . .In Ransome’s book her role ends victoriously. In the film we are told that her sailing adventures come to a sticky end.”

When I hear of people messing around with Titty’s character, I reach for my revolver . . .

posted via 81.129.95.6 user Peter_H.


message 42647 - 05/29/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: New S & A Film (Again)
As the last thread for this subject was getting a bit long I thought I'd start it afresh.

In today's (29th May) London 'Sunday Times' Barbara Altounyan has a piece further taking the BBC to task over the changes made for the new film, she is clearly angry on behalf of the family and her Aunty Titty in particular.

She also implies there is an element of racism in some of the changes they have made.

Unfortunately due to the paywall I can't provide a link.
posted via 95.146.63.80 user MTD.


message 42646 - 05/28/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film- an older adaptation gives hope.
Both things are exactly as I remember too, Robert -- the film combined the two Broads books, and it had that title because it was the first of a series that never developed further.

I have it on VHS. My then 5yo daughter and I watched it together many times and it never palled.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42645 - 05/28/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: New S&A Film- an older adaptation gives hope.
I just looked (on Youtube) at an earlier adaptation under the peculiar "Swallows and Amazons for ever" title, which was actually BS. I'd always been puzzled about why they (the Beeb) had used that title for programmes that didn't feature any of the SAs at all, although there's a connection via the Ds

My recollection is that it covered both CC and BS, though maybe you've only seen the BS part.

I seem to remember reading at the time that they planned, or half-planned half-hoped, to do all the books eventually (with perhaps the exception of PD and ML), and just started with the Broads books, but unfortunately no more of the project ever came to fruition.
posted via 2.31.115.1 user eclrh.


message 42644 - 05/28/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film- an older adaptation gives hope.
I suppose it's a tribute to the Swallows and Amazons brand that the BBC felt that they should use it to plug their serialisations of CC and TBS.

I have not seen CC for a long time, but I have seen TBS again quite recently, and was struck by how faithful it was to the characters and atmosphere of the book.

According to my records I have TBS on a DVD along with Casablanca, but all I can lay my hands on is The Big Sleep!
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.


message 42643 - 05/28/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S&A Film- an older adaptation gives hope.
I just looked (on Youtube) at an earlier adaptation under the peculiar "Swallows and Amazons for ever" title, which was actually BS. I'd always been puzzled about why they (the Beeb) had used that title for programmes that didn't feature any of the SAs at all, although there's a connection via the Ds. They were given a bit of understandable stick for that, and it had slightly put me off seeing the series.
But seeing this episode, I was happily surprised by how thoroughly good it was. The story was adapted all right, but well done, and the atmosphere was beautifully recreated; not "softly", in fact the old eel babber gave them a first hand history lesson of extreme poverty, people shooting bitterns for food and eating rats to stave off hunger. But the essentially local life, with its slow patterns and "everybody knows everybody", was nicely conveyed. It wasn't quite AR, but it was close and it was delightful.
It was also interesting to me that if you hadn't read the books, it'd be quite hard to make out what was really happening.
I think the BBC are making these things because they'd like to, and it gives me some hope that it'll be the case this time round too.
An incidental pleasure; as the titles rolled, it was nice to see the names of old technical colleagues coming up, editors, sound men and cameramen, and Sophie Neville of course, familiar on line and none the worse for that.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42642 - 05/26/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I suppose the film folks could point out that "Tatty" was at least the name of the other mouse in the story rather than completely random, and so might possibly have been the name Mavin adopted.

What really surprises me (others have remarked on this) is how comparatively grown up the two eldest Swallows are, based on the pictures Alan posted. I'd put both of them at mid-teens. T*tty and Roger are both oldish but not so remarkably so.

This might not matter much in keeping true to the spirit of the story -- but it would make the kind of easy movement between reality and fantasy in the Swallows' talking with one another much less realistic I would think. Leading me to suspect the film crew might have abandoned that in favor of the Russian Spy fantasy as more believable for characters that are almost what would be called Young Adults today; i.e. not just because it's a current theme but because the characters would seem ridiculous suddenly talking about being abandoned on a desert island, or whatever.
posted via 47.208.56.168 user dthewlis.


message 42641 - 05/26/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Oops! Where did that apostrophe in problems come from?
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42640 - 05/25/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
An interesting point Alan (and more explicit than your previous message.)

Does anyone know if it really was such an ultimatum? The Telegraph report on Barbara's view seem to show the family have not been consulted and what they have said ignored.
posted via 2.28.84.66 user MTD.


message 42639 - 05/25/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
The Times originally ran the Titty/Tatty story in an opinion piece by the literary critic John Sutherland on 27 June last year, as the basis for a much broader piece on the problem's of adjusting children's classics to modern sensibilities.
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42638 - 05/25/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I agree with Mike D, that fewer & fewer of us can remember the 1963 BBC series, including the name change to Kitty.
I did watch it on a 12 inch Pye brand 405 line TV. I had converted it using a Pye kit to receive ITV and reception of BBC was not brilliant.

I wonder if AR mischievously used the name Titty knowing the trouble it might cause. AR was well read in 18/19th Century literature and would be well aware of the name's other older connotations. Certainly at the time or writing SA the name was coming into common use as slang. I do not know if AR protested about the name change to Kitty in the 1963 series - perhaps he was too upset about other aspects.
Possibly the name was a tribute to Evgenia who, according to some reports, was well endowed up front.
Although AR used the Altounyans as an initial snapshot family, name (and sex) changing had already started with Taqui becoming John. (very modern & transgender!)
No doubt a few letters to the press will probably generate a few more curious people in the audience.
Anyway I wait to see if the film is close to the atmosphere of the books rather than being correct in every detail.
posted via 195.99.226.205 user OwenRoberts.


message 42637 - 05/25/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: New S&A Film
May I draw your attention to my message 42554 of a fortnight ago? That explanation has clearly not been given to Barbara. It seems to have been a straight decision between a name change or no filming last summer.
Unfortunately for Peter (and you all) I am no match for the Murdoch paywall. But I can offer you a couple of stills from the film - and a chance to vote.
posted via 86.155.231.160 user awhakim.
message 42636 - 05/25/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I suspect that they think that there will be lots of titters at Titty.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42635 - 05/25/16
From: Mike Jones , subject: Re: New S&A Film
Is the BBC afraid of giving offence, or just worried that the name will be greeted with laughter by today's children?
posted via 82.132.224.194 user Mike_Jones.
message 42634 - 05/25/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
This topic just won't go away . . .

In The Times today, Carol Midgley tears into the BBC because it has changed 'Titty' to 'Tatty'. She writes: "People are such wimps these days that they will find offence in a mug of tea. . . . In 2016, is there anyone who could genuinely feel a scintilla of outrage at this harmless word [Titty]?"

Hear hear! Can't provide a link because Times material is behind a paywall (unless Alan Hakim can find a way through . . .)
posted via 81.129.95.6 user Peter_H.


message 42633 - 05/24/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I imagine Owen we are part of a dwindling group who actually remember and viewed the 1963 BBC adaptation.

My main memory is of the name change of Titty to Kitty, and my late father trying to explain to my innocent ten year old self why (whilst avoiding the real reason!)
posted via 2.28.84.66 user MTD.


message 42632 - 05/24/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
At last! Someone who cannot easily be challenged is questioning this nonsense!
posted via 2.28.84.66 user MTD.
message 42631 - 05/24/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Interesting how opinions on the 1974 film have changed over the last 42 years.
Back in 1974 there were those who thought the film was moderately good but did not compare well with the 1963 BBC series in black & white.

However we do know that AR thought that the 1963 series was a "ghastly mess" with attempts to introduce more characters, ham acting and the BBC's desire to blow up the approach to the secret harbour to make filming easier.
However my faded memory of the 1963 series still compares favourably with the 1974 film in spite of AR's thoughts on the former.
AR died in 1968, otherwise it would have been interesting, had he survived, to learn of his thoughts on the 1974 film.
Not sure that I want to comment on the 2016 film until I have seen it.
posted via 195.99.226.205 user OwenRoberts.


message 42630 - 05/24/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Thank you for making it available. I only had a hard copy at my disposal.
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42629 - 05/24/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: New S&A Film
It's here (quite a long way down).
posted via 109.158.193.137 user awhakim.
message 42628 - 05/24/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Strongly worded letter in today's Daily Telegraph from Barbara Altounyan, complaining bitterly about the change of her aunt's name to Tatty and questioning what BBC producer Christine Langan meant when she vowed that the new film would be faithful to the book.
posted via 92.25.156.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42627 - 05/24/16
From: Jock, subject: Stone ginger beer bottles (was: NAR)
More about stone ginger beer bottles here:
posted via 83.10.36.175 user Jock.
message 42626 - 05/23/16
From: Dave, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Thanks, Peter. That is a very useful and clear perspective; and if we start by assuming the folks in charge simply wanted to make the SA film, somehow, then to some degree other elements fall in as unavoidable (however unfortunate) compromises to get the film done at all. Which has nothing to say about how good, bad, or frustrating the final result may be, or from whose perspective.
posted via 47.208.56.168 user dthewlis.
message 42625 - 05/23/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S&A Film
So why are they bothering with this version?

Probably because they just want to. Money is an unavoidable and important element in it all, but I reckon most films get started because somebody simply wants to make the film. Then reality kicks in.
But making a film (or a TV programme) is actually a lovely way to spend your life. At some point or other it can get hellish, but not necessarily. And compromise always crops up; you do something differently because it'll do, hardly anybody will notice (although you remember it for the rest of your life) and it costs enormously less to do it that way.
I think that may be the truth of it.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42624 - 05/23/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I certainly agree that the 1974 film was a masterpiece, but I don’t agree that after 42 years no one should have another go at an S&A film. If I were a film director, and could get the funding, I’d love to have a go. I wouldn’t alter any of the plot unless I absolutely had to, but I would try to approach it in a different way from Claude Whatham, using camera angles for effect, different timing, modern but hopefully sympathetic scripting, different mood music – maybe more modern and spare. Hand-held camera footage, maybe some judicious CGI, particularly if I decided to film a version of ‘We Didn’t Mean . .’ (a book which is begging for dramatisation). Intrusions like Russian spies etc would just be irrelevant.

Of course, if I couldn't get the funding, I wouldn't do it. I'd watch the 1974 DVD.
posted via 81.129.95.6 user Peter_H.


message 42623 - 05/22/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film
"Whatham did an extraordinary job of doing a faithful AR version, stunningly accurate in terms of mood and feel. So there's always the DVD..."

Exactly. Why bother making a new film that has -- planned into it from the beginning -- features that were not in the story at all?

I remember telling my two girls when they were small that if ever anyone made a film of S&A I'd take them to see it. Then we found out that indeed there was just such a film, and that it was the book brought to life. That was forty-odd years ago, and in my view that film was, and remains, unsurpassable.

So why are they bothering with this version? I for one have no intention of seeing it. Nor will I be taking my grandchildren. But as Peter says, there's always the DVD of the original.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42622 - 05/22/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: New S&A Film
It's all recorded. AR had the idea in January 1936 (letter to G Wren Howard Jan 16th) and wrote 26 pages straight away, breaking off briefly from PP. He sailed to Holland during May/June, but only started writing WD properly on November 8th, and the diary records progress into January. There were interruptions in 1937; first the Carnegie Medal, also The Far Distant Oxus and then getting Nancy Blackett ready for sea.
The full MS was sent to Cape on September 4th, though there were still illustrations to do. Publication was November 12th, 1937.
None of the two-year lead time needed by modern publishers.
posted via 86.174.171.22 user awhakim.
message 42621 - 05/22/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S&A Film
WDMTGS is published in 1937??

I'm not sure, but the writing can't have been wrapped up before 1936. In the text, Roger gets first sight of land as they return, by spotting the "radio towers at Bawdsey" which was the first experimental Chain Home radar station, which was built in '36, and which AR must have seen on his "check sail" to Flushing.
So an earliest possible publication date for WD of '37 would be likely.
I may be wrong, but that's the only firm date in the whole series of stories, isn't it? There's a problem that it doesn't fit well with the timings derived from the "internal" chronologies I've seen published which (am I remembering this right?) tend to set WD around 1933.
Never mind, it doesn't make the books any less superb, and a bit of nerdish fun doesn't hurt. And if we can't be nerds in TARS, where can we be?
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42620 - 05/22/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Sorry- coming to this a bit late but...

I simply do not buy this idea that people will only go to the cinema if there is a shoot-up, or a car chase or whatever in the film.

That's clearly true, but more people will go to see it, or at least the producers must feel that experience shows that they will, if it has those elements in it.
And when you're playing with substantial chunks of money, and trying to get other people on side to contribute, and they are looking at the same statistics of audience and profits as you are, then the importance of faithfulness to the original AR story will tend to fade.
Of course, Whatham did an extraordinary job of doing a faithful AR version, stunningly accurate in terms of mood and feel. So there's always the DVD...
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42619 - 05/18/16
From: JOhn Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
WDMTGS is published in 1937??
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42618 - 05/18/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Winnie running around - I thought for a moment you wanted to bring The House at Pooh Corner Into the mix.
posted via 92.25.145.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42617 - 05/18/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
An amended version? An uncensored version, surely.
posted via 92.25.145.0 user Mike_Jones.
message 42616 - 05/18/16
From: eclrh, subject: Re: New S&A Film
For a certain sort of film you could start with GN, focussing on an amended version of the bit where John and Nancy go off on their own.
posted via 2.31.115.1 user eclrh.
message 42615 - 05/17/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
..."an excellent Disney movie"

In most cases isn't that a contradiction in terms? There are a few good Disney films, but only a few.

But we're straying far off AR matters here!
posted via 2.28.82.85 user MTD.


message 42614 - 05/17/16
From: John, subject: Re: NAR
Ed:

We should shoot a video like the Tullamore Dew ad - with stone bottles, gingerbeer and the SAD walking across the fells.

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42613 - 05/17/16
From: John, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Cross WDMTGS and The Riddle of the Sands and it would be a mighty movie, make the father in Intelligence -- Nazi's looking at England -- Winnie running around --

Remember - any publicity is good publicity except for a few things

It is all about the economics - nothing more

+ the writers think they can rewrite everything - look at MC Beaton's response to the shows about the Scottish constable.


posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42612 - 05/17/16
From: John, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Marvel Comic - Antman -- etc...

Although I am of the opinion that the movie of WDMTGS would make an excellent Disney movie and make a good bit.


posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42611 - 05/17/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
$943 million

Crumbs! That puts it all in perspective. It must take more than a "gun-toting Russian spy" to get that sort of box-office.
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.


message 42610 - 05/17/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: New S&A Film
"I have just seen a trailer of a new film of Alice through the Looking Glass. Apart from a few characters, nothing in the trailer bore any resemblance to the book I know."

Perhaps they've signalled the difference from the book by giving the film a slightly different title.

No, I don't really believe that. They've changed the title for the benefit of those in the audience who didn't know that Through the Looking Glass features Alice.
posted via 2.31.115.1 user eclrh.


message 42609 - 05/17/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: NAR
SA CH8

On the hunks of bread and butter they put hunks of pemmican, and washed them down with deep draughts of Rio grog out of stone bottles. Then they ate the apples. All the time they kept a close watch on the promontory where the little white sail of the pirate ship had disappeared.

This is the only reference I found regarding "stone bottle".

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42608 - 05/17/16
From: John Nichols, subject: NAR
So I was standing in the shower this morning, thinking about the word NAR. Means when in Old Norse.

I was then thinking about the stone bottle ginger beer from the SA's. Was not the ginger beer in stone bottle then? Ed do you know?

We could invent an ad campaign.

NAR - not your grandmother's ginger beer.

NAR - keeping old men alive longer

NAR - from the stone age

NAR puts hairs on your sister chest
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.


message 42607 - 05/17/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I have introduced all of my daughters to SA and only one liked them.
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42606 - 05/17/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Captain America: Civil War held its world premiere in Los Angeles on April 12, 2016, and was released in the United States on May 6, 2016. The film became a critical and commercial success, grossing over $943 million worldwide.
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42605 - 05/17/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: New S&A Film
...the people who have seen the film go find the book. What happens then?

I leave them in the very capable hands of Ransome the author. Either they will fall in love with his writing, or there was no hope for them becoming a fan anyway (regardless of the film).


posted via 31.51.234.10 user Magnus.


message 42604 - 05/16/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Well, maybe. By the way, John - who or what is 'Captain America'? I'm just curious.
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.
message 42603 - 05/16/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Better drowned than duffers etc.. applies equally to movies

John
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.


message 42602 - 05/16/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Even a bad S and A movie . . .

But why not make a good one?
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.


message 42601 - 05/16/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Questions:

Do you want your children to see

Captain America or
S and A movie - even a not so stict one

Read
John Buchan as a teenager and explain the differences in people's attitude towards others in the pre WW2 era
or
Read Fifty shades of Grey

Even a bad S and A movie is better than 99% of the current alternatives

John
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.


message 42600 - 05/16/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Perhaps the most important thing is that the film is true to the characters of the children in the book, not least the balance of responsibility between boys and girls. Then at least those who go on to discover the books should not be disappointed.
posted via 92.25.154.84 user Mike_Jones.
message 42599 - 05/16/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
perhaps the cinema audience ought to be advised to read PD

Well perhaps the film-makers should make a film of PD or ML in the first place, if they want some violence. And at least the violence, or 'off-stage' violence in ML, was put there by Ransome - that is my point. But I simply do not buy this idea that people will only go to the cinema if there is a shoot-up, or a car chase or whatever in the film.

However, there is a ray of hope here. The makers of the new SA film will have had to get a licence of the IP rights from the Ransome Estate. Whilst the AR Lit Execs have a duty to maximise Estate income, they will also be alert to safeguard AR's reputation and heritage. The film company will not have been given complete carte blanche. Perhaps Geraint might comment, if he is reading this?
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.


message 42598 - 05/16/16
From: Duncan, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I remember when they first anounced they were making the films, there was a lot of talk about the real peril in the stories - the danger. It seems to me that just as sailing at night and camping on an island in a lake is - in real terms - more dangerous and exciting than looking for horcruxes being chased by a Dark Lord, it is also more dangerous and exciting than dodging unlikely Russian spies.

I will obviously give the film a go and I hope I can enjoy it in its own right, but I must say I'm disappointed. I was looking forward to it (and particularly the possibility of others of the books being made) but now I'm rather scared about what they could do to the stories...
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.


message 42597 - 05/16/16
From: andy clayton, subject: Re: New S&A Film
The first time I noticed film differing substantially from the book was when I went to see 'You only live twice'. Ian Flemming never wrote stories about hollow volcanoes being used as secret rocket bases. Its what Hollywood does, it creates fantasy. The books will still be there after the film has done the rounds.
posted via 146.199.114.229 user cousin_jack.
message 42596 - 05/16/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Well put Peter, for me, as an adult reader, what makes AR so good is that they are period pieces but timeless as well. I've used the expression before here - a snapshot of moments of 1930s Britain.

We know AR went to a great amount of work in re-writing and getting the books 'right', even after publication when Cape would allow, but to completely re-write one as it were for the purpose of a film is just a nonsense.
posted via 2.28.231.165 user MTD.


message 42595 - 05/15/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: New S&A Film
I suppose if people are worried about the use of guns and fights in a AR film, perhaps the cinema audience ought to be advised to read PD, ML or even GN before starting on S&A.
Even SD was ended by the S&A's being removed from the moor to avoid the possibility of them being shot.
posted via 195.99.226.205 user OwenRoberts.
message 42594 - 05/15/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: PS
I assumed a Nar was 15 miles, that being the length of the river in Norfolk - not one, alas, that forms part of the Broads.
posted via 92.25.154.84 user Mike_Jones.
message 42593 - 05/15/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
A Masters is a hard road to hoe, you should be proud of her. Do you have a reference to the PDF so we can have a geek at it.

Nar is old Norse, not sure why a two seminars are a Nar -- when I go to seminars I do not go Nar -- I go to sleep.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42592 - 05/15/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: PS
Nar it ain't!
posted via 86.174.69.41 user Paul_Crisp.
message 42591 - 05/15/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Hold on everybody, things are getting far worse.
I have just seen a trailer of a new film of Alice through the Looking Glass. Apart from a few characters, nothing in the trailer bore any resemblance to the book I know. There were a great many violent fights, not to mention the Jabberwock in person.
I doubt the trailer lasted 3 minutes, but it seemed much longer.
posted via 141.0.14.144 user awhakim.
message 42590 - 05/15/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: PS
There is another unit waiting for definition - the Nar (which is, of course, the sum of 2 seminars).
posted via 141.0.14.144 user awhakim.
message 42589 - 05/15/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Magnus – I follow your logic OK. But – you stop where the people who have seen the film go find the book. What happens then? Instead of bang bang - bullets flying, they find a plot that is concerned with John resenting being called a liar, Susan vexed because the potatoes won’t cook, and Titty swotting up French irregular verbs as a holiday task. James Bond it is not. Ransome set his stories in reality – on what would probably concern children on holiday in the Lakes. You don’t expect to see an armed Russian spy on High Topps for heaven’s sake, but how alarming it was to see a strange man making paint marks. This is the charm of Ransome – it is delicate, and it can be ‘period’, but how precious it is! Can it survive the sickening diet of violence which is presented and expected on today’s media?
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.
message 42588 - 05/15/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
John - I should have followed your advice last year when reading my daughter's study into lava flows for her volcanology Masters. It took a long time to get my brain into shape to understand some of the mathematical modelling she used. To relax after that I think I read WDMTGTS and some Terry Pratchett.

Now were those 500lb bombs standard or high capacity?
posted via 109.150.86.97 user MartinH.


message 42587 - 05/15/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Parenting illustrated by telegrams
Another of those things that I have read so many times in AR but not realised the importance of such a simple piece of information.

I'm also reminded of an incident in my older teenage years (early 1970s) when a friend in London sent me a telegram to say they were unable to visit that day, my maternal grandparents, who I lived with, were appaled as they were only used to telegrams being used for bad news (their son had been killed in WWII) or celebrations such as wedding congratulations.
posted via 2.28.231.220 user MTD.


message 42586 - 05/14/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Lakeland cam
Space isn't remote at all. It's only an hour's drive away if your car could go straight upwards.

Fred Hoyle.

There is an interesting person with some problems in every group!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

+ Peel Island and the SA on Lakeland cam today
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42585 - 05/14/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
Mike:

Agree entirely, my problem is that I have spent the last 4 months buried in 12 masters documents as their chair - my mind is fried with the scientific method and statistics --

and Fortran programming.

The best way to learn the Scientific method is to read all the AR books with Dick in them - then you are reader to read Fisher. If you survive Fisher then Constance Tipper and finally the bombing stats studies by the Female Professor whose name escapes me, but I pad the UK government ot scan her stuff -- brilliant. She worked out how many 500 lb bombs ot put into an area to destroy something -- got paid to do it as well.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42584 - 05/14/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
And we certainly used 'hoick' the same way here in Australia too -- to lift straight up or out easiy, usually with a 'yank' or a 'jerk'.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.
message 42583 - 05/14/16
From: Mike Field, subject: PS
And I should have added that, in exactly the same way, a 'sec' was an abbreviation of 'second', and was a short but unspecified period of time -- not one second explicitly, but a few seconds or minutes, depending on circumstances.

We also used 'half a sec' in the same way. ('Half a mo' was an equivalent Americanisation.)
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42582 - 05/14/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Parenting illustrated by telegrams
I spent many enjoyable hours playing in and one and around Lake Macquarie from about 8, I used to take my younger cousins out in boats, only wore life jackets when skiing and sailing - otherwise no.

My mother was no different o TD's, but they let us run in the bush and the lake.

I think the modern parent is a modern invention a product of the baby boomers who I consider the worst generation for changing the world into a unpleasant game of life mainly involving their self satisfaction

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42581 - 05/14/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
I found "hoick" in the Penguin English Dictionary. It is defined as "raise or rise abruptly, jerk up." There is no indication that it is a regional term. I was familiar with it in my childhood in Scotland but I wouldn't have known how to spell it.
posted via 108.16.166.49 user Didymus.
message 42580 - 05/14/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Parenting illustrated by telegrams
BETTER DROWNED THAN DUFFERS IF NOT DUFFERS WONT DROWN

We all know this telegram, and most of us have wondered about the style of parenting that lets kids go off into the wild for days at a time, versus modern paranoid parenting.

You may also have read about the 'rules' of writing a good adventure story about children; you have to get the parents out of the way first. Ransome, Blyton and other authors all had the same problem to solve, and relied on death, prison, far-off jobs and other tricks, when they didn't want the easy option of parents who appeared to let the kids go off camping a little too readily.

Only today did I remember there was one example of a less carefree parenting style, in Coot Club chapter XXIII:

TOM DUDGEON YACHT TEASEL BECCLES
ARE TWINS WITH YOU TELEPHONE IMMEDIATELY
MOTHER

It is the "immediately" that gives me the biggest hint. This was an adult who was properly worried the twins were half-drowned.

I wonder if Ransome was every accused of making the Walker and Blackett adults a little too easy-going? I wonder if Mrs Dudgeon and Mrs McGinty were deliberately portrayed as more 'normal' to redress the balance?
posted via 31.51.234.10 user Magnus.


message 42579 - 05/14/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
Long after the days of S&A, the time interval "Shake of a lamb's tail" took on a precise definition. Scientists working on the Manhattan Project needed to specify how rapidly events were taking place during the explosion of an atomic bomb. Ten nanoseconds (a hundredth of a millionth of a second) became known as one shake. Once started, the explosion of a critical mass of uranium went to completion in about 80 shakes.

posted via 108.16.166.49 user Didymus.
message 42578 - 05/14/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: New S&A Film
The general public have seen a lot of films.
This is not the first book that has been made into a film.
It is not going to be the first book plot changed, to be made into a film.

I think most people will be unsurprised to hear that changes were made when writing the screenplay.

What matters most is that they are aware there is a book, and they could go find it.
posted via 31.51.234.10 user Magnus.


message 42577 - 05/14/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
I gave an assignment to a class of 260 US students, the instructions included a note that spelling was judged in accordance with the first dictionary listed in the TAMU library catalog in a regular search of databases. It was the UK version of the OED and I took some mean pleasure in pointing this out when they asked me to look at drafts.

Amazing what a student will learn for a grade.


posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42576 - 05/14/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
This is the problem with science and vernacular

Some twit, whether a gold fish or not, actually defines these things so a jiffy is actually defined as 1/100th of a second - I have no doubt as to AR's meaning - I was just being pedantic and a bit of a Roger. A moment is however from memory 40 seconds.

Of course when I tell my wife I will be a minute she translates to an hour.


posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42575 - 05/14/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
'Jiff' here was an abbreviation of 'jiffy', a short but unspecified period of time -- a few seconds or minutes, depending on circumstances.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.
message 42574 - 05/13/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
I have always read "howk" as "hoick", a word which my father to use to mean pull.

I have looked up "howk" on the internet and found differing meanings, including to hit really hard and to dig out!
posted via 109.150.86.97 user MartinH.


message 42573 - 05/13/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
I think Ed we are back to the difference between English English and American (USA) English, many of us here understand or know of these words but then we read words from USA writers that we have no idea about!

Prior to the Internet I would have said you need to invest in a copy of the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (SOED), but now it is On-line and would easily answer your question about 'Duffer' etc.

posted via 2.28.231.220 user MTD.
message 42572 - 05/13/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
I always read, even at the age of 8 of howk as hoick (a sharp pull) - I now know it is technically a sharp vertical pull.
Jiff was always a moment.

Like Ed, pressing the send key, increases my perception of errors in the dyslexia aided text I have just sent.
posted via 195.99.226.205 user OwenRoberts.


message 42571 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Very funny
here tis
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42570 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Very funny
This is a very funny site - makes me think of Ed and Roger - not sure why
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42569 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Nice boat
She is very very good - reminds me of Nancy in her intensity

posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42568 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
A jiff is 1/100th of a second so one could do a Newtonian analysis of the stated CF attempt and I suspect it will take longer than 2 jiffs if we do not want high velocity

posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42567 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
Common word in Oz when I was growing up
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42566 - 05/13/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Dialects - and their translation
Excuse that typo - "jank" was intended to be "YANK" (or JERK).

(Why do I see these things just AFTER hitting "SEND" and not just before.."
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42565 - 05/13/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Dialects - and their translation
In Chapter 6 of "Swallowdale", as John and Nancy consider the job of raising the sunken SWALLOW...

"It'll be all right," said Nancy. "Captain Flint's coming today,
and he'll howk her up in two jiffs."

I presume that the meaning of "howk" as used here could be "jank."

"Dialect" comes to us again.

One of the problems in introducing these books to subsequent generations is getting by the words they do not understand. When trying to overcome their reluctance by reading it aloud to them, it suddenly falls on me to be able to answer their question as to "what does that mean?" For the most part, it was translated simply by considering the general jist of what is going on. My interpretation was hopefully close enough to being the proper translation so we could get on with the story, having some years ago struggled on my first reading to understand things like "what is a Duffer?" Some meanings had to wait until years later, when this forum came up with some answers such as "midden" - which I had no idea what THAT was. Jacky certainly gave us a few other words to try to translate, but somehow, it added to the delights of digging through these stories, being educated without having to realize it. It has been a learning experience, all these years, and I keep making discoveries that keep me coming back to those childhood friends of long ago as they take me with them, again and again.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42564 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
NO actually Mike, the converse - I would argue that AR dominated with women in place of the all male characters, even John is contrived, so our math has a place on this board.

CC is pure Buchan on a dose of ginger ale instead of steroids. None the less exciting.

John
posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.


message 42563 - 05/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Hypothesis:

Buchan had no strong female characters.

If a character can take one of two states, let us call them A of B.

Let us assume all male characters are A and all female B.

Hannay is the first and main character is n = 1.

In the books starting with The Thirty Nine Steps, clearly by induction n=2 is a male being the dead man, and let us assume the milkman is n=3 and as tradition required it at the time - the milkman is a man -- we can conclude that all n+1 has to be men, but some n for n >> 1 has Mary Lamington as a strong character and female, I advance deliberately a women for the plot, therefore there is an n+ 1 that is not a man and the hypothesis once broken is false. You only need one break. Of course the fact that the sum of A is >> than the sum of B in Buchan is also obvious, if you want to advance the hypothesis that the sum of A is greater than the sum of A then I agree, that it is no the same as there are no strong female characters, in Buchan there are at least n=3 that are B.

QED and self evident


posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.


message 42562 - 05/13/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Thank you Peter for flagging that up, the lady is quite right!

I can't imagine the audience the film makers want attract are going to have any interest in the books at all.
posted via 2.28.231.220 user MTD.


message 42561 - 05/13/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Mike - we're not alone! There is a letter published in today's Daily Telegraph from a lady in Cambridgeshire. She writes: "I was appalled to discover that people are not satisfied with the original innocence of the Arthur Ransome novels . . . we will eventually reach a point where people no longer know the original stories. They will believe that the new, darker, plot - designed to entice audiences - is true to the original." I think that last sentence points out the real danger with all this.
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.
message 42560 - 05/12/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film
In linguistic terms, your hypothesis that my comments were related to the centrality of characters is disproven by your formulation. :) (Even were your hypothesis true, as a former engineer I'd be interested in seeing your proposed mathematical proof....)

But we're getting a bit far away from the S&A film, aren't we?
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42559 - 05/12/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: New S&A Film
In mathematical terms your hypothesis that Buchan had no strong women characters - central to the story is disproven by Mary Lamington.

posted via 165.91.12.62 user Mcneacail.
message 42558 - 05/11/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film
True. But we don't see very much of Hilda von Einem -- she's more of a presence rather than an active participant. Certainly Mary does have quite a bit of action in the books you mention. But I think you'd still have to say both played secondary rather than primary roles (albeit ones that are important to the plots). Perhaps that's open for debate.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.
message 42557 - 05/11/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
The chief "villain" in Greenmantle is a woman, and Lady Hannay is given plenty to do in Mr. Standfast and The Three Hostages.
posted via 92.25.154.84 user Mike_Jones.
message 42556 - 05/10/16
From: Mike Field, subject: PS
I should add to my last post that I've not seen the 2008 BBC film version (with Rupert Penry-Jones), which I understand follows Buchan's novel much more closely than the earlier films.

Also, I have just found a good short essay on the various film verions in 'The Quadrant', linked to.

posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.
message 42555 - 05/10/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film
"Instead we are going to have the introduction of, wait for it: a "Russian spy" - Gosh, wow, no one has ever thought of that before, have they?"

Enid Blyton did that -- although her spies were German because the book I remember was written in 1940. It was 'The Children of Kidillin', that I was given when I was a kid, and in which were a couple of spies and (in my recollection) a submarine hidden in a sea-cave.

Spy stories are okay, and hers was at least an original work. But why does AR need to be either 'tarted up' or 'dumbed down' with spies for "today's young generation"?

My earlier remarks on bowdlerisation still apply.

- - -

As for the Hitchcock version of 'The Thirty Nine Steps', as Wiki puts it, it is "very loosely based on the 1915 adventure novel". The various versions get looser until they're unrecognisable.... I'd be sorry to see 'Swallows & Amazons' go that way.

I have no knowledge of Buchan's wishing he had used a female in a primary role in 'The Thirty Nine Steps', as Paul suggests. Indeed, he had introduced a woman (Julia Czechenyi) early in the story who could have taken a primary role but who he dropped altogether after the third chapter. So I suspect that story's a furphy. Indeed, I don't recall Buchan's writing any novel that had a woman in a primary role, although there were several that had important secondary roles -- like Janet Raden in 'John Macnab' or even (near the end of the story) Anna Haraldsen in 'The Island of Sheep'. And plenty more in supporting roles of various kinds, of course. He lived in a male-dominated time in a male-dominated world, and his stories reflect this.

posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42554 - 05/10/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Having heard Nick Barton make the same pitch as turned up in the Telegraph, I am convinced he is trying to keep to the spirit of the book, while adjusting the plot for the modern audience.
The important news is that it is being released on Friday August 19th, and if you want the film to succeed, and gather new young enthusiasts for AR, go and see it on that weekend 19-21st. The film world judges success almost entirely by the first weekend's takings. Waiting till Monday is too late.
I was also told that changing Titty to Tatty was the key to financing the film. "Hollywood accounting" is a strange beast.
posted via 141.0.14.219 user awhakim.
message 42553 - 05/10/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Thanks Peter, I began to think I was out on a limb here!
posted via 2.28.231.220 user MTD.
message 42552 - 05/09/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Apparently, when Buchan saw Hitchcock's film of The 39 Steps, he liked it very much and wished he had put a woman as a main character....

Why not just wait until August, go and see the film, and then make up your minds? I know I shall.

posted via 86.144.170.239 user Paul_Crisp.


message 42551 - 05/09/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Some books are remade as films regularly: Pride and Prejudice, Jane Eyre and War and Peace come to mind. But with the bat will in the world SA is not in that league, so it is understandable that scriptwriters and directors should want to introduce new elements to the story.

Perhaps I will take my grandson to watch it....
posted via 92.25.145.48 user Mike_Jones.


message 42550 - 05/09/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Some books are remade as films regularly: Pride and Prejudice, Jane Eyre and War and Peace come to mind. But with the bat will in the world SA is not in that league, so it is understandable that scriptwriters and directors should want to introduce new elements to the story.

Perhaps I will take my grandson to watch it....
posted via 92.25.145.48 user Mike_Jones.


message 42549 - 05/09/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Titles can't be copyrighted

That's true, but you can't (without permission) make a film or write a novel and call it "Swallows and Amazons" - if you do, you could be liable in an action for "passing off".

As to film versions of AR books, phrases like "updated for today's young generation" don't cut much ice with me. They are more or less an admission that the British film industry does not have a director who is sufficiently sensitive, adept and innovative to be able to reinterpret AR's stories as they were written and to preserve the tensions already in AR's plots. Instead we are going to have the introduction of, wait for it: a "Russian spy" - Gosh, wow, no one has ever thought of that before, have they?
posted via 81.129.127.233 user Peter_H.


message 42548 - 05/09/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: New S&A Film
To which I want to ask him 'Why?'

1. There is already a film made from the book. Who would fund another film with the exact same plot? Who would go to watch another film with the same plot?

2. This film is not for the hard-core Ransome maniacs like us. It is for the general public in the year 2016.

Nick Barton could be in love with S&A as much as you, or he might have read it disinterestedly once. It would not make a difference to how he produced this film. He has no option but to make a profit, based on the current market. (It can still be a work of love.)

Harcore fans can, of course, say they'd rather there was no new film at all. To do so means rejecting a means of sharing the story with a new potential audience. Some will come to read the book, via the film. Many won't, but at least the story will be shared.

I probably won't go to see the film, just as I deliberately avoided the recent musical adaptation. I'm still glad the story will give enjoyment to a new audience.
posted via 81.156.112.147 user Magnus.


message 42547 - 05/08/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film
"Why piggyback a film on an established work if you are going to mess around with it so much?"

Because the title of the work is well-known to a few generations of avid readers, and titles can't be copyrighted. So it gives the film-makers a semi-captive audience for whatever stuff they want to write.

Most of us probably remember John Buchan's early thriller 'The Thirty Nine Steps'. It was made into a film on, I think, four separate occasions. Each version followed Buchan's story less closely till the last wasn't even a parody of the book -- just a bit of fanciful rubbish. But the title stayed the same, because the title still sells....

Much harder to write a new film with a new story and a new title and expect to pull a large well-paying audience.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42546 - 05/08/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Why piggyback a film on an established work if you are going to mess around with it so much?

I obviously didn't explain myself clearly enough.

There will be a kick start from using the well known title, and a boost of unknown size, but presumably the producers feel it will be significant, from existing fans of AR's books. From the producers' point of view, pulling in new readers via the film wouldn't be an important factor.
And the environment has changed hugely since Whatham made his version. That was before children were exposed to computer games and CGI action films. They've since got used to explicit action, high stakes and violence.
Which, of course, LOTR has in spades, and with CGI and fine scenery, Jackson was able to lead the field in terms of violent action. It's there in the books- unlike in SA, but they're competing in the same market.
I don't want to say that the motives of the production are entirely commercial- I think it perfectly possible that they love the books and were happy to be involved in making the film for that reason.
But the potential payoff must be there to get the film made at all.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42545 - 05/08/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Of course Peter, I understand and appreciate that. But if that is the purpose of the production why bother acquiring the rights to the book in the first place?

Why piggyback a film on an established work if you are going to mess around with it so much?

Can we assume from their actions that the rights were comparatively cheap? That is, cheaper than commissioning a new original script.

It may pull in an audience who are not acquainted with the original work, but if any of them then turn to the books they are going to be disappointed and probably put off reading any of them.

I do wonder how did Claude Whatham in the 1970s manage to raise the finance and stick very close to the original source. Yes, I appreciate that was 40-50 years ago but Peter Jackson managed it with the Lord of the Rings trilogy, again staying pretty much with the original works.

If the aim of the film is to make it the first of a franchise then playing around with the period and plot will create problems in adapting the other books.
posted via 2.28.231.220 user MTD.


message 42544 - 05/08/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: New S&A Film
To which I want to ask him 'Why?'

Very simply: they need to pull in a large enough contemporary audience to cover their costs and make some profit, and their estimation is that the hard core AR readership isn't enough to do that.
Of course they may be wrong, but as they are putting in the money, and making a film costs mind boggling amounts of money- nothing reaches the screen by accident and for instance, the children's socks and suitcases have to be 1930s style, sourced and paid for, and somebody paid to do that...
So they have to decide what will pull them in. Using SA as a base gives them a head start, but they need more. They're doing what they need to do to get it made at all.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42543 - 05/08/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Tatty carries connotations of potato and poor quality, as in a load of old tat. In the latter respect, is this an unconscious reference to the film itself?

posted via 92.25.145.48 user Mike_Jones.
message 42542 - 05/07/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: New S&A Film
Indeed, Why?

Titty isn't Kitty this time, she's Tatty. John appears in long trousers and looks like he's 17 or 18, and Susan looks almost grown-up too.

Why is it that some people feel entitled to change another person's literary work to suit their own interests? (CF the arguments about bowdlerisation we've had here before.)
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.


message 42541 - 05/07/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: New S&A Film
On her Website Sophie Neville flags up an interview in The Daily Telegraph with producer of the new S&A film, in it he says:

Nick Barton, the film’s producer, said: “We’re aware that we needed to be truthful to the characters of the children, the period, the story itself, but at the same time present a film that could compete with big, modern day action adventure films.

To which I want to ask him 'Why?'

For me such an argument only show how he does not understand the original book.

BBC Films made the same mistake over their version of 'Brideshead Revisited', altering the plot to make a 'better' film and in doing so making a nonsense of the book.

posted via 95.146.189.126 user MTD.
message 42540 - 05/04/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: "The Lakes Express" in the 1930s
My recollection (I lived near Manchester) was that they needed to be specially cleaned rather than slowly turning white of their own accord.

Certainly. As a child, I didn't see the cleaning. And it took several goes. They'd be black, and after the war, with the huge fires and the
dust from the bombing, they were especially black. Then they were cleaned gradually, and they'd start to be white with rain streaks as fresh soot started to coat them again, then the Clean Air Act came in and they were cleaned again. The best way to see the effect is to look on Youtube at the first half of "The Ipcress File", a lot of which was filmed around the Albert Hall. The School of Mines features large as the exterior of the "Library" where the villain is studying, and it has the piebald look it had until the '60s.
The other example of the extreme tattiness of London at the time is the large abandoned Victorian house, used as an observation post, that Caine walks to in the early light- red sun, a superbly evocative shot- which nowadays will be gleaming and titivated, worth millions.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42539 - 05/04/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: "The Lakes Express" in the 1930s
A special treat was to see how the Euston Arch was blackened with soot. All stone was- I remember that vividly from when I was a small boy. When burning coal in grates was banned (smokeless fuel only) I do remember buildings slowly turning white...

My recollection (I lived near Manchester) was that they needed to be specially cleaned rather than slowly turning white of their own accord.

posted via 2.31.187.191 user eclrh.


message 42538 - 05/04/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: "The Lakes Express" in the 1930s
Thanks Jock- that's a lovely film, in the category of "Night Mail" although not quite as wonderful. There are all kinds of gems, like the trackside train spotters and the pictures of the Lakes from above Windermere. A special treat was to see how the Euston Arch was blackened with soot. All stone was- I remember that vividly from when I was a small boy. When burning coal in grates was banned (smokeless fuel only) I do remember buildings slowly turning white...
Full of goodies. And showing how the manual signalling required iron discipline and was full of opportunities for failure. It made me think how much track capacity has been radically increased by automation and comms.
Smashing.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42537 - 05/02/16
From: David Bamford , subject: Re: "The Lakes Express" in the 1930s
Thanks for that Jock ! That has explained a lot that I didn't know but wanted to about the signalling system.
posted via 101.160.17.83 user David.
message 42536 - 05/02/16
From: Jock, subject: "The Lakes Express" in the 1930s
My apologies if this wonderful film on YouTube has been linked to before.

A London Midland & Scottish Railway instructional film which shows the
progress of "The Lakes Express" from Euston to Windermere can be seen
by clicking here.
posted via 83.29.158.163 user Jock.


message 42535 - 05/02/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: JPG Files
TarBoard has its own image storage space for images that need to be referred to – or inbedded in – TarBoard messages.

To use, simply click the "TarBoard image upload facility" towards the top of the main TarBoard page.

The process is a little clunky and long-winded, but it works!
posted via 83.29.158.163 user Jock.


message 42534 - 05/02/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: JPG Files
John - if your e-mail address is one from years back (in the days of pay as you go) you may have some Webspace with those. I have some Freeserve accounts that are still active and each one has 8MB of Webspace, even though the company is now owned by EE.
posted via 95.146.189.126 user MTD.
message 42533 - 05/01/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: JPG Files
John, if they're not too big and you don't want them held for too long, I'm happy to host them for you on my site for a while and let you have the URLs to quote. But I'm running out of space and don't want the site any larger, so it could only be a 'limited-time' offer.

Alternatively, you might try a hosting site like Flickr -- I myself haven't used it, but I know some who do.

posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.
message 42532 - 05/01/16
From: John, subject: JPG Files
I no longer have access to my web site, is there some place I can put some AR pictures so I can refer to them here.
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42531 - 04/30/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
and it was Ben Gunn's cave before it was Peter Duck's.
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.
message 42530 - 04/30/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
And don't forget how Captain Flint was 'tipped the Black Spot' in the first book.
posted via 124.171.131.134 user mikefield.
message 42529 - 04/29/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
Another link:

In S&A John turns a tree into a lighthouse, while RLS came from a family of lighthouse builders. I think his father was disappointed in him for not joining the profession himself.
posted via 2.31.187.191 user eclrh.


message 42528 - 04/29/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
Stevenson himself is not mentioned but along with Robinson Crusoe, Treasure Island is a major influence on Swallows and Amazons. Most of the pirate talk comes from there Captain Flint, the parrot, etc.

Ransome himself wrote a book of literary criticism on Stevenson which was not published until quite recently when a long lost draft was discovered and edited for publication by a TARS member.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42527 - 04/29/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
The name, "Stevenson", is not mentioned in any of the twelve, however there are those references to concepts found in "Treasure Island", as Roger on crutches was pretending to be Long John Silver. The parrot was taught to say, 'Pieces of Eight." The name, Captain Flint, came from there. The Amazons playing at being "pirate" probably came from concepts provided to them in that story. Nancy enjoyed saying, "Shiver my timbers." also came from that story. The major concept of "Peter Duck" with its buried treasure and REAL pirates ("Black Jack" and his bunch) seem well related to "Treasure Island" - perhaps felt by some to be a degree of plagiarism.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA



posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42526 - 04/29/16
From: John, subject: Re: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
Ed:

Is RLS mentioned in SA at all? I cannot remember

John
posted via 165.91.13.105 user Mcneacail.


message 42525 - 04/29/16
From: John, subject: From Lakeland Cam - Wonderful
Our business in this world is not to succeed, but to continue to fail, in good spirits.

Robert Louis Stevenson.
posted via 165.91.13.105 user Mcneacail.


message 42524 - 04/26/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
Dekho may have Romany roots but is much more likely to have been brought over by former soldiers who had served in India.
posted via 31.48.73.49 user Paul_Crisp.
message 42523 - 04/26/16
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
Dekho may have Romany roots but is much more likely to have been brought over by former soldiers who had served in India.
posted via 31.48.73.49 user Paul_Crisp.
message 42522 - 04/21/16
From: John, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
And now one observes the essence of evolution - a million small changes make a big change - like Black Jake was once an protozoa, then again maybe he still is

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42521 - 04/21/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
"The final words of the storm scene in King Lear are "Lurk, lurk." I always suspected AR had picked up his usage there. "

That sounds very plausible to me, just the sort of catchphrase that a child or family might pick up on and use without realising that the more common usage is less action based and more long term skulking.

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42520 - 04/21/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
The final words of the storm scene in King Lear are "Lurk, lurk." I always suspected AR had picked up his usage there.
posted via 141.0.15.34 user awhakim.
message 42519 - 04/20/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
I have put more than one new work into the OED from Ransome over the years, it is lot fun

------------------------------------------------------------
On the Lakeland Site Today

If you lived in Sheffield and were called Sebastian, you had to learn to run fast at a very early stage.

Sebastian Coe.
posted via 165.91.12.54 user Mcneacail.


message 42518 - 04/18/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: 'North Pole'
And in news today, the earths wobble on its axis means that the North Pole may be moving closer to Britain.


posted via 184.151.61.27 user rlcossar.


message 42517 - 04/18/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary recognises AR's usage of lurk, although he is too recent to be quoted as a reference for it.
posted via 92.25.159.215 user Mike_Jones.
message 42516 - 04/18/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
Lovely post, Ed.

As a north Cumbrian, albeit one born to 'outsiders', I grew up surrounded by yin, ut and mun, but never heard 'lig' - or, indeed, noticed it in the text, until it was mentioned here.

My favourite Cumbrianism is the name given to the local evening news programme. Known to some as 'Border News and Lookaround', it was invariably referred to as 'Border Crack and Deekaboot'.

Crack - the craich of Gaelic, and deek the dekho of Hindi through, I suppose, Romany roots. Odd thing, language!

Andy
posted via 92.26.121.101 user Andy.


message 42515 - 04/18/16
From: John, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
The real problem is that I learnt a lot of stuff from Ransome, including his style of English and often people comment on my use of words, and I just smile and think Ransome. To me lurk is just part of everyday life, that fact one does not see it elsewhere is interesting but not relevant

J
posted via 165.91.13.226 user Mcneacail.


message 42514 - 04/18/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
It's all Viking country! "Ligga" means lie down, in Norwegian and Swedish. More puzzling to me is the origin of "lurk!" meaning "lie down!", "hide!". Normally "lurk" is a verb indicating a continuing state - to stay concealed or lie hidden somewhere. AR uses it as a command of instant action. I don't know of any use of "lurk" in this way outside AR's books - does anyone?
posted via 81.132.173.105 user Peter_H.
message 42513 - 04/18/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
Thanks for verifying that "lig" is truly representative of the local dialect. Jacky certainly did come up with bits of dialect, with "yin" for "one", "mun" for "must", and "ut" for "it" and I'm sure there are others. In my text typed copies, it stays as "lig" as AR wrote it. Not being familiar with the dialect, I just wanted to verify that this spelling was not a typo, but a correct spelling of the dialect.

Reading Ransome has been a lifetime learning experience. It is still rewarding my re-readings with new discoveries as enhancements to my education. It has been 72 years since I first read PM, and it has given me the pleasure of many re-readings since then. Ransome's words were with me that day I first went sailing in my new catamaran with no other instruction other than what I had read from Ransome. It was my first time sailing, but I knew what to do - and it worked just fine. It was as if I hear Nancy caution me:

"Fingers, fingers."

It still is a delight to close out a busy day by visiting my childhood friends yet again as they invite me to join them in the enjoyment of youth. There are still things to be learned there. The adventure continues...

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42512 - 04/17/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
Here is an extract from a 1927 book on the Penrith dialect which says that "lig" is a version of lie. Penrith is more north Lakes but I daresay a few miles doen't make that much difference.

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42511 - 04/17/16
From: David Bamford, subject: 'North Pole'
In yesterday's (i.e., Sunday's) photos, Tony Richards has shown a summerhouse on Summer Hill. What a perfect 'North Pole' set if 'Winter Holiday' were ever to be filmed !
David
posted via 110.148.144.203 user David.
message 42510 - 04/17/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: dialect - lig or lie
I'm pretty sure that this is AR depicting the local dialect; giving the story 'local colour', so to speak.
posted via 110.148.144.203 user David.
message 42509 - 04/17/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: dialect - lig or lie
In PM CH13 is the line:

Jackie is showing the D's how to "guddle" for trout.

"fingers round the middle of him. He'll lig quiet. But you mun"

Is the word: "lig" correct? It is in several of my editions, but
when typing in these books, I wanted to change it to "lie", but
that is not what is in the books. Is this a typo in the printed
editons? Or is this simply local dialect that I am not familiar
with, and should leave it as "lig"?

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42508 - 04/17/16
From: John, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Let's . . .
Leave them alone.
We're bound to want to . . .
Shut up a minute.
I must confess for the longest time - I wanted to marry Susan
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42507 - 04/17/16
From: John, subject: Re: Black Jake's Lock.
which drinks your blood and forges your signature.

Surely you mean the government of any persuasion

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42506 - 04/17/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Williams point of view
You have now reminded me of this (and I'm chuckling to myself):
“Cats! William, Bad Cats!”

(I had better come clean and admit that it was my brother, not me, who noticed William had his own thoughts narrated.)
posted via 81.129.149.91 user Magnus.


message 42505 - 04/16/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Williams point of view
A good point - I've read that passage so many times yet it has never registered what AR is doing there! Of course in BS William pays an important role in the work of Scotland Yard (all Gibber does is set fire to a ship!)
posted via 2.31.102.194 user MTD.
message 42504 - 04/15/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Williams point of view
AR was a cat lover, indeed. But he knew the real William well (owned by his close friends) and maybe AR got to observe William's personality at a detailed level. Some cats don't have quite such obvious personalities; they can hide it. I believe (auto)biographical works only mention the cats once.

My main point is: Did you notice that Sinbad and Gibber never have any paragraphs narrated from their own point of view / in the first person...

COOT CLUB
Chapter V - Aboard the Teasel

William was not aboard the Teasel. He had had a rather upsetting day, what with being left alone in the boat in the morning and having to make room for these newcomers in the afternoon. For some little time after tea he had lain as usual on the foredeck, catching the last of the sunshine and knowing that he made a noble sight for anybody who might be sailing up or down the river. But the short spring day was ending. People were settling down for the night. There was no one to admire him. He went back into the well and heard Dorothea say what a handsome pug he was, but those newcomers seemed unable to do their washing up without splashing. He went on into the cabin. Mrs. Barrable was writing a letter and took no notice of him. He was annoyed to find some of her paint-brushes soaking in a jam-pot half full of turpentine, left on the floor just where he could not help coming across it. If he had not been prudent in sniffing, that turpentine might have ruined his nose for a week. How careless people were. Thoroughly sulky, William went out again through the well, getting dreadfully splashed as he did so, climbed on deck, and went off along his private gang-plank to the shore to dig up and enjoy anew one or two treasure smells that he had hidden, some little distance away, on the strip of firm ground that lay behind the fringe of reeds.

posted via 81.129.149.91 user Magnus.


message 42503 - 04/14/16
From: David Maxwell, subject: Re: Dixon's Farm
As a dedicated follower of the Lakeland Cam, there are references to all of these from time to time (I think).
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.
message 42502 - 04/13/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Dixon's Farm
The OS 1:25000 map also shows a Dixon Ground, an Atkinson Ground and a Tyson's Wood.
posted via 2.31.118.175 user eclrh.
message 42501 - 04/12/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Dixon's Farm
Visiting Beatrix Potter's house at Near Sawrey at the end of last month, I was struck by the fact that the land attached to the property is run by a farmer called Dixon. Happy serendipity?
posted via 92.25.218.43 user Mike_Jones.
message 42500 - 04/12/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Dixon's Farm
Visiting Beatrix Potter's house at Near Sawrey at the end of last month, I was struck by the fact that the land attached to the property is run by a farmer called Dixon. Happy serendipity?
posted via 92.25.218.43 user Mike_Jones.
message 42499 - 04/12/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Product placement?

I remember a reference to a chocolate that breaks into squares. Was that unusual in the 1930s, and would it give an oblique reference to a brand?

posted via 82.110.109.214 user MartinH.


message 42498 - 04/11/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Garibaldi biscuits, by name (rather than the general "squashed flies") in SW, when they were doing supply inventories, just before that wonderful bit where Susan cuts off Roger's every ploy to start hogging with a seamless follow-on.
Let's . . .
Leave them alone.
We're bound to want to . . .
Shut up a minute.

posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42497 - 04/11/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
I don't think that Ransome was particularly antagonistic towards dogs or William in particular, just as a cat lover (as I am), he probably did not know and understand them (as I do not) like a dog lover does.
Cats being much more carnivorous than dogs cannot really taste sweet flavours apparently and so chocolate does not have the same attraction to them as it has to more omnivorous dogs. We used to hide small Easter eggs around the house for our children and our cats if they ever found them never tried to eat them. Many dogs would silver paper and all.

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42496 - 04/11/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Thanks Ed! I knew you'd be able to provide the information!
posted via 95.150.15.147 user MTD.
message 42495 - 04/10/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Force breakfast cereal finished in 2013 - another link to the S&A era lost.
I cannot say it compared well with cornflakes manufactured by, say Kellogg's, which had a much more appetising colour and much more sugar.
Force had "descended" to being a top shelf food in Waitrose (an upper price UK chain store).
Hope to publish a few notes on Force and it's advertising in the S&A period.

Was always surprised the AR wrote about giving chocolate to William as he could have been poisoned by the theobromine therein. Perhaps AR did not really like dogs, I was thought he wrote less sympathetically about William than he did about Sinbad.
AR & Evgenia were cat lovers I don't think Sinbad was ever offered chocolate - which is also bad for cats although less so than for dogs.
Generally cats will not eat chocolate except when encouraged to do so.
posted via 195.99.226.205 user OwenRoberts.


message 42494 - 04/10/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Handy Billy, rather.
posted via 92.22.21.33 user Andy.
message 42493 - 04/10/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
The wonders of the internet. [a href="http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/2/260506.jpg" Handy Billy[/a].

posted via 92.22.21.33 user Andy.
message 42492 - 04/10/16
From: Andy, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Product placement?

I can only think of two.

The breakfast cereal 'Force'. (I had some once, on the back of 'it's what the Swallows ate'. It was horrible.)

And the Handy Billy, Goblin's engine in WDMTGTS. Reading Ted Walker's opinion of it in that book always made me think of Arthur's endless problems with Racundra's engine. Did he write the passage with gritted teeth? :-)

Andy

posted via 92.22.21.33 user Andy.


message 42491 - 04/10/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
Is it possible AR had shares in a chocolate business? That is quite the list of references.

Today with product placement income available there would be reference by name to the type of chocolate too.
posted via 184.151.61.104 user rlcossar.


message 42490 - 04/10/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
The results of looking for "chocolate" may seem a bit unconnected, as each line is taken out of context, unrelated to the lines shown beside it.

Roger is the one we associated with chocolate, but he is not the only one. Even the dog, William, seemed to like it as well. Even the Coot Clubs pet white rat got a bit now and then.

Here is my list of "hits". Hope this gives you the desired into.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA
---------------------------------------------------
---------- BSCH11.TXT
kettle to boil ready for supper. They fed him with chocolate

---------- BSCH17.TXT
have your share of chocolate later on."

---------- BSCH18.TXT
Joe fed his white rat and dealt out a ration of chocolate,
after which they lay on their bunks, eating the chocolate,

---------- BSCH27.TXT
matter how they tried. So Bill got some chocolate out of the
They lay there, munching chocolate and talking. They talked
of chocolate still, and they listened. And slowly, slowly the

---------- BSCH9.TXT
to go without chocolate for the sake of getting bananas, or to
berries? And we want plenty of that milk chocolate they give
cocoa, chocolate both plain and nutty, a dozen bottles of

---------- CCCH11.TXT
stewed pears, several hunks of cake and some chocolate ("No

---------- CCCH13.TXT
and she gave William a chocolate.

---------- CCCH18.TXT
foods, chocolates and toffees, oranges and apples and
slab of the chocolate cream of which William was particularly
Mrs. Barrable bought another big slab of chocolate cream
Admiral gave him some chocolate."
"Chocolate all round," said the Admiral. "We've done it

---------- CCCH2.TXT
the cabin to get William's chocolate-box from the little

---------- CCCH23.TXT
"A Roger," laughed Dorothea. "Give him some chocolate.

---------- CCCH27.TXT
Come on, boy! Come on! Chocolate, William..."
"Is there any chocolate?" asked Dorothea.
"We'll send across his bit of chocolate."
scrap of chocolate, a bottle of cod-liver oil, and his own
"Does William have his oil after chocolate or before it?"
"Chocolate always comes afterwards," called William's

---------- CCCH29.TXT
two big slabs of chocolate and two cold chickens cooked that
William, who had his fill of chocolate.
please, I'd like another bit of that chocolate."

---------- CCCH8.TXT
chocolate for William. I'll take that, too, and then I'll leave
"Does William eat chocolate?" asked Port.

---------- CCCH9.TXT
William, impatient for tea and the chocolate he expected,

---------- GNCH12.TXT
chocolate. And eggs."

---------- GNCH15.TXT
of chocolate. They'll just have to have something when they come

---------- GNCH16.TXT
packet of cake had gone. In its place was a slab of chocolate in a red
wrapper with gold lettering. At least the wrapper said it was chocolate.
silver paper that covered it. Yes, it was chocolate all right and he did
for himself whether the chocolate was as good as the chocolate served
rest of the chocolate, wrapped it up again, put it back in the box, took
eaten the bit of chocolate, looked round. Up there, at the Pict-house, he
then his chocolate, sucked an orange and, after drinking half his
Besides, he had left a slab of chocolate in his biscuit box safe there,
He opened it and took out the packet of chocolate and his diary. There
opened the packet of chocolate. Odd. It looked as if it had been opened
remember feeling the chocolate through its paper before he put it away
against a rock. He must have been mistaken. Anyhow, the chocolate
He had finished the chocolate, folded up the paper and put it away

---------- GNCH5.TXT
all solid rations except chocolate stowed inside them for easy carrying,
"What about eating our chocolate?" said Roger at last.
They rested pleasantly, sitting on rocks, eating their chocolate, and
eaten their chocolate and had just started again on their way up the

---------- MLCH11.TXT
and brought out a bit of chocolate. "It's a bit sticky," she said. "I meant

---------- MLCH17.TXT
sick of chocolate. We'll try that with our Miss Lee."

---------- MLCH18.TXT
favourite kind of chocolate.

---------- MLCH3.TXT
Chocolate..."
butter, lots of pemmican, dates, chocolate..."
"Ration of chocolate," said Susan hurriedly.
were eating rations of dates and chocolates it flared up out of the east.
cramming the last of his chocolate into his mouth, turned to the bows

---------- MLCH5.TXT
chocolate already."
Susan over her shoulder. Roger was counting the slabs of chocolate
decided that the dormitory effect was neater, put some chocolate in

---------- PDCH22.TXT
the chocolate. Then there were the cooking things. The water-barrel

---------- PDCH24.TXT
Susan had served out a ration of chocolate, but, by the time the

---------- PDCH27.TXT
"Well, there's no chocolate going now," said Susan. "We're going to
have tea and supper, and then you can have some chocolate when the
"Bother you," said Susan. "Skip along. You'll have chocolate just the
"I've found the box with the chocolate in it," said Roger.
"Have some chocolate, Roger," said Susan.
Everybody had some chocolate and then, unexpectedly, tired right

---------- PDCH28.TXT
bad. And there's enough chocolate left to last till Captain Flint comes.

---------- PDCH29.TXT
regular meals and unlimited chocolate. "It leaves us so much more

---------- PDCH33.TXT
to be broken, and small rations of chocolate while the kettle was being

---------- PDCH9.TXT
that Chocolate and Vanilla Ices were For Sale.
their third round of ices, chocolate ones, he came back looking very

---------- PMCH16.TXT
"I've got the book," she said, "and some buns and chocolate.
the wind. They ate their buns and chocolate. Dick steered while

---------- PMCH24.TXT
brought out two big slabs of chocolate. "I was forgetting Roger

---------- PMCH7.TXT
cornflakes and chocolate. They were certainly not going to starve.

---------- PPCH1.TXT
Roger swallowed a bit of chocolate unsucked and unbitten.

---------- PPCH10.TXT
everybody by serving out a ration of chocolate from a secret

---------- PPCH19.TXT
Roger would have given a good-sized bit of chocolate to

---------- PPCH27.TXT
down what brand of chocolate... Isn't there a special kind

---------- PPCH29.TXT
was boiled again and again. People ate hunks of chocolate

---------- PPCH5.TXT
chocolate in making out a list like that. But Mrs. Blackett,
after all, was Captain Flint's sister. Chocolate was in it, and

---------- PPCH7.TXT
small ration of chocolate, and the paddling of dusty feet in

---------- SACH19.TXT
a shilling's worth of the sort of chocolate that has almonds and
raisins in it as well as the chocolate, and so is three sorts of food

---------- SACH20.TXT
rowing. She also found a big hunk of chocolate. This she ate.
wind. She had eaten all the chocolate, and had begun to wonder

---------- SACH21.TXT
some chocolate for that boy."
The mate got out the cake and chocolate. She and the captain
cake and breaking up chocolate, and the light of his own torch,

---------- SACH22.TXT
"I ate all your chocolate in Amazon," said Titty.

---------- SACH27.TXT
and ginger-nuts and chocolate biscuits. There were mountains

---------- SACH30.TXT
say, Peggy, what about a round of chocolate? There's still a lot

---------- SACH6.TXT
had a big tin of chocolate biscuits. "I don't expect that mate of

---------- SDCH11.TXT
"Chocolate wouldn't be bad for now," said Roger, "and then
ready and they had eaten the bit of chocolate and the hunk of

---------- SDCH13.TXT
rest and a ration of chocolate all round. Even the parrot had a
bit. The mate had wisely put the chocolate in the outer pocket of

---------- SDCH14.TXT
and after that the usual bunloaf and marmalade, chocolate and

---------- SDCH16.TXT
chocolate."
the lantern. I put a lot of chocolate out on purpose. It's on the
whispered by one or other as the chocolate went round, seemed

---------- SDCH17.TXT
spoilt the taste of chocolate or apples that might be meant for

---------- SDCH22.TXT
"Perhaps you'd better leave your chocolate behind too," said
lot of chocolate and some apples. The mate scrubbed the kettle

---------- SDCH24.TXT
of it and be ready to let go in a second. A ration of chocolate was

---------- SDCH25.TXT
eaten on the way only an apple apiece and some chocolate. In-

---------- SDCH26.TXT
them, and some bunloaf after it, and a bit of chocolate, while

---------- SDCH28.TXT
"We don't need anything but chocolate," said Roger.
chocolate for each of them. Except for the chocolate and compass
"What about chocolate?" said Roger, less because he wanted
chocolate than because he wanted a rest.
"Come on," said Titty. "We'll have our first chocolate under
chocolate, and looked back into the valley of the Amazon.
"We'll have the rest of the chocolate when we come to Trout
chocolate. Titty took the compass out of her pocket, and, while
she was eating her chocolate, opened the compass on the ground

---------- SDCH29.TXT
"There's only one more bit of chocolate left," said the boy,
off again, cheered by the chocolate and by the little stream beside
"And there is no more chocolate."
"There's one lump of chocolate left in the pocket of my knap-

---------- SDCH3.TXT
and tea and sugar and chocolate, a jar of marmalade, the paper
chocolate to fill up with.
"Let's keep the chocolate for rations while we're exploring,"

---------- SDCH33.TXT
"They had nothing with them but some chocolate," said

---------- SDCH34.TXT
paper off the last bit of chocolate. That's where Roger waited

---------- SDCH4.TXT
chocolate he had saved, and hurried after the able-seaman. Some-
"Have my chocolate," said the able-seaman. "I don't want it."
I'll eat the chocolate while we're watching."
Titty handed over her chocolate and looked back down the

---------- SWCH10.TXT
"Ginger beer and chocolate," said the Mastodon. "But that

---------- SWCH14.TXT
like the Mastodon. And we haven't even a bit of chocolate."

---------- SWCH22.TXT
chocolate biscuits, and cake went down well. There were

---------- SWCH23.TXT
"We ate the last bit of chocolate yesterday," said Roger.
"Can't you think of anything but chocolate?" said John.
"Of course I can," said Roger. "But chocolate's jolly

---------- SWCH24.TXT
tonight"). She bought a fresh supply of chocolate and several

---------- SWCH25.TXT
"Shove a bit of chocolate in your mouth," said Titty.
things like sugar, cornflakes, biscuits and chocolate on the top

---------- SWCH26.TXT
out a ration of chocolate."
of chocolate, which she broke into three equal pieces. Bridget
and Roger nibbled chocolate. Titty took a bite of hers but
Roger wasted a bit of chocolate by swallowing it.

---------- SWCH29.TXT
happened to the chocolate? I'm sure we had more than two

---------- SWCH30.TXT
"Chocolate and bananas," said Titty, digging in her
ful of chocolate and settled to her oars.

---------- SWCH5.TXT
"A whole box of chocolate," said Roger. "Nut and raisin

---------- WDCH13.TXT
might dig out a bit of chocolate. I know just where it is."
back, remembering Roger, she took a slab of chocolate.
have a ration of chocolate. And aren't there a few bananas

---------- WDCH3.TXT
chocolate, in squares. And two dozen eggs and a whole

---------- WHCH12.TXT
Susan had served out a ration of chocolate, putting aside four
it with a bit of strengthening chocolate taken from his own share.

---------- WHCH17.TXT
except one small piece of chocolate, which Roger found just

---------- WHCH21.TXT
milk chocolate with nuts in it? We've got some fresh from Rio."
dinner, and the chocolate from Rio, and the loaf that had come

---------- WHCH25.TXT
cabin table and the piles of oranges and chocolates and a huge cake

---------- WHCH27.TXT
remember to have plenty of chocolate."


posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42489 - 04/10/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Roger and chocolate
I don't think it will be 'quick'! I'm sure Ed Kiser will be on the case at some point.
posted via 95.150.15.147 user MTD.
message 42488 - 04/09/16
From: Mark Walker, subject: Roger and chocolate
To save me searching every single page of each of the Twelve, does anyone have a 'quick guide' to where and when chocolate was mentioned?
Cheers
Mark
posted via 124.168.152.179 user Buzzook.
message 42487 - 04/09/16
From: Mark Walker, subject: Re: Rob Boden
Hey, all!
Am still trying to get in touch with Rob Boden to get some 'during' resto pics.
For some reason he does not acknowledge either my emails or FB posts, so assume he is super busy.
Does anyoen on hear have his phone number and could call him and ask him if he can assist?
Bit exxy for me to do so from Australia, even if I had the number...
Thanks
Mark
posted via 124.168.152.179 user Buzzook.
message 42486 - 04/08/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Black Jake's Lock.
I presume the Black Jake fly kidnaps the fish and holds it to ransom.

Related to the Mephistopheles mosquito, which drinks your blood and forges your signature.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.


message 42485 - 04/07/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Re: Black Jake's Lock.
This is a possibility, David, as AR did claim that one of his ancestors in East Anglia was a miller.

Alternatively AR was a renowned fisherman and there is a Black Jake fly.
posted via 84.51.135.91 user OwenRoberts.


message 42484 - 04/07/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Black Jake's Lock.
I wonder if this is where A.R. got the inspiration for his chief villain's name? It is certainly a ripper of a name for a scoundrel.
David
posted via 121.220.62.78 user David.
message 42483 - 04/06/16
From: Owen Roberts, subject: Black Jake's Lock.
Following visit to a nearby hospital, I stopped here for a few moments recuperation.
Sadly no scowling pirates with jingling earrings.(Should I complain to the Environment Agency - who try to run the canals?)

The lock was named after a nearby mill. On a wide stretch (14 foot locks) of the canal a very peaceful place with only a small drop in levels (just over 3 feet).

One could not imagine a more different place from the PD character.
posted via 146.200.205.189 user OwenRoberts.


message 42482 - 04/05/16
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
How about the episode when everyone is locked up except Roger:

"With that, everyone was talking at once ….. Do look out, John, my nose isn’t as hard as your elbow ....

(GN chapter 24; the speakers are not identified).
posted via 203.96.132.244 user hugo.


message 42481 - 04/05/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Rob Boden
Most monument carvers will offer this service, it is probably a little cheaper. However, my mother in law refused it after my father in law died. She said "I don't want to look like they are just waiting for me to die!".
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42480 - 04/04/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Rob Boden
In the picture of the gravestone of AR and Evgenia at Rusland, Evgenia's name and birth date look as if they were carved at the same time as Arthur's details, and her deathdate added later!
posted via 2.31.118.175 user eclrh.
message 42479 - 04/04/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Rob Boden
Thanks Richard, some good photos of the Dog's Home, and the cottage at Witch's Quay - somewhere I have some shots before the quay in front of it was cleaned up and a new bridge built.
posted via 2.29.96.43 user MTD.
message 42478 - 04/02/16
From: Richard K-M, subject: Re: Rob Boden
I'm sorry not to have seen this earlier, but haven't had much time to visit TarBoard lately.

I have some pics of the Dog's Home during restoration, they can be found here: http://www.rakm.co.uk/landscape_pages/arthur_ransome/index.html
posted via 90.202.139.134 user Richardkm.


message 42477 - 03/30/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Water Supply
Probably not garderobes, in any case.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42476 - 03/29/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Water Supply
"Long Drop == PIT TOILET"

Well, of course.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.


message 42475 - 03/26/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Water Supply
Actually it is the kink at the end that does it.

Long Drop == PIT TOILET

Never mentioned of course

Is there a newspaper from the early 1930's for Windermere where we could look and see what was being advertised,

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42474 - 03/26/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Water Supply
Of course it's never the long drop but the short stop.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42473 - 03/25/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Water Supply
Do you reckon Long drops at Beckfoot or Septic Tanks

Is that a debate on two rival execution methods?
posted via 2.31.118.175 user eclrh.


message 42472 - 03/25/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Thought for teh day
The old English belief that if a thing is unpleasant it is automatically good for you.

Osbert Lancaster.

Oxford Dictionary of Humorous Quotations.

I wonder what Roger would say to this from the Lakeland Cam today

posted via 128.194.94.68 user Mcneacail.


message 42471 - 03/24/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Water Supply
Do you reckon Long drops at Beckfoot or Septic Tanks
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42470 - 03/24/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Pound Note
Actually it is the British MI5 telling the French where they can stick the Euro and who is going to win this war.

Reminds me of a man smoking a pipe and walking across a battlefield - very British - I bet he had a tie on as well

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42469 - 03/24/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: Pound Note
. . . and after looking at the OS maps of the area (on-line) it seems there are a lot of stone wall segments on the Crinkle Crags.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42468 - 03/24/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: Pound Note
No wonder I couldn't find it. I was looking at Wed. the 23rd, the date that showed for the post. I have to agree with Dave, it's a stone wall.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42467 - 03/24/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Pound Note
For anyone trying to find it on "this week on the Cam" it's the sixth picture under Tuesday 22nd.
posted via 2.31.118.175 user eclrh.
message 42466 - 03/24/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Pound Note
Here is a cropped part of the image which shows what John first spotted.

[ Image ]

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42465 - 03/24/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Pound Note
You can see the slate wall - but the symbol is really there - like the White Horse from 3000 years ago.
posted via 128.194.94.68 user Mcneacail.
message 42464 - 03/24/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Pound Note
If I'm looking at the right picture (now on the weekly accumulation page) it looks more like a slate wall.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42463 - 03/24/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
Maybe we need an official list of all Roger's puns.

The most memorable one for me is 'Picaninny' in Secret Water, but only because I had to Google it 30 years after I first started wondering what it meant.
posted via 81.147.144.99 user Magnus.


message 42462 - 03/24/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
Thank you Jon. It must be that I was getting the two confused (it's an age thing you know)
posted via 82.110.109.209 user MartinH.
message 42461 - 03/23/16
From: Jon, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
Sure you're not thinking of PP (I believe)? Something like this:
"Quartz is jolly hard stone" said Titty.
"So is Peggy's elbow", said Roger, very tenderly feeling his nose.

posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42460 - 03/23/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Water Supply
I remember in the old days, back when the sheep were still on the hills and not in the movies from Bristol, we used to have nice raging arguments on the forum on topic as interesting as Beckfoot Water Supply

Bring back the old days

John
posted via 128.194.94.55 user Mcneacail.


message 42459 - 03/23/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Pound Note
Sorry - to much caffeine -- yes the symbol

Clearly the same aliens that made the Pyramids

John
posted via 128.194.94.55 user Mcneacail.


message 42458 - 03/23/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Pound Note
I think you mean the £ symbol which does seem to be visible on the far left of the picture which will ony be visible for a day or less.

[ Image ]

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42457 - 03/23/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Pound Note
On today's Lakeland Cam in one of the pictures on the left hand side there looks to be a British Pound Note carved into the Landscape - can anyone else see it.

Toast: The US ambassador to Indonesia got a bit upset when he found out that the house boy kept the toast hot in bringing it to his room in the morning by putting in under his arm pit - true story

John
posted via 128.194.94.55 user Mcneacail.


message 42456 - 03/23/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
A brief exchange that I remember is from GN when the children were locked up in the village of the Gaels. The problem is I don't have a copy to hand so cannot exactly remember who said it.

I think it was:

"Careful" said Nancy, "Your elbow is as sharp as a needle!"

"There must some point to it," retorted Roger.

May be one of you with access to the book can provide the exact words.

I
posted via 82.110.109.212 user MartinH.


message 42455 - 03/23/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
Thanks to both of you.
I must have a think about this, but no doubt others will have chosen them in the past.
posted via 2.31.102.173 user MTD.
message 42454 - 03/22/16
From: Dan Lind, subject: Re: Registration Problems
Thanks, guys. This computer isn't very smart, but it is learning, albeit very slowly.
posted via 70.69.168.45 user captain.
message 42453 - 03/22/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
SW Chapter 2. Ed got there before me -- but he's 3 hours earlier than I am, I believe.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42452 - 03/22/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
"crunching" - used in three situations:
1. in PD, the sound of crabs eating crabs
2. in PP, the sound of pounding into powder "gold" quartz rocks
3. in SW (CH2) at breakfast, when Daddy announced
his plan to "maroon" them to explore on their own.
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.
message 42451 - 03/22/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Registration Problems
If you are having problems registering, there is a screen available from the main TarBoard page which allows you to request your password.

Two things to remember, you must use the same email address that you registered with and your user name and password are case sensitive.

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42450 - 03/22/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: A return to favourite quotations from AR
Good idea Dave!

Where's that one from?
posted via 95.151.35.71 user MTD.


message 42449 - 03/21/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: A return to favourite quotations from AR
A while back I was recruiting favourite quotations from AR for a list on All Things Ransome. Recently I reread the canon and came across this quote again. It certainly isn't momentous, but to me it perfectly highlight's Ransome's unerring sense of balance in writing:

"...after that there was silence except for the crunching noise natural to toast when being eaten".

Any other minor - but delicious - quotes we're missing?
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.


message 42448 - 03/21/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Test Message
Don't worry, Dan, you'll always be PG around here. :)
posted via 124.171.196.187 user mikefield.
message 42447 - 03/21/16
From: Dan Lind, subject: Re: Test Message
Looks as if passed muster. (I'd have had pass word problems.) Thanks.
posted via 70.69.168.45 user captain.
message 42446 - 03/21/16
From: Dan Lind, subject: Test Message
Trying to see if I'm PNG, or not.
posted via 70.69.168.45 user captain.
message 42445 - 03/19/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: Nancy Blackett Appeal
Happy to contribute
posted via 92.25.150.166 user Mike_Jones.
message 42444 - 03/19/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Nancy Blackett Appeal
Thanks, Adam. I'll be following your lead. It's a pity we can't take advantage of UK Gift Aid from California.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42443 - 03/19/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Nancy Blackett Appeal
I was one of many who made a contribution to the original purchase of Nancy Blackett by the Trust twenty years ago. It is well known that "boats are holes in the water into which money is poured". Wooden boats are just deeper holes. It seems that Nancy's funds need replenishing and the Nancy Blackett Trust has announced an appeal to build a fund to make necessary repairs and provide a cushion for future expenditures.

I believe that Nancy Blackett as a sailing link to Arthur Ransome and to some of his most loved books is worth preserving and I will be making my new contribution twenty years on from my first.

posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42442 - 03/03/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Who owns this bridge
Does anyone know who owns the bridge on the Lakalend Cam site today

Ribblehead Viaduct is owned by Network Rail.
posted via 2.31.118.175 user eclrh.


message 42441 - 03/03/16
From: John, subject: Re: Who owns this bridge
I doubt that art needed Ruskin any more than a moving train needs one of its passengers to shove it.

Tom Stoppard.

Oxford Dictionary of Humorous Quations.

What a cruel thing to say about a good man -- like saying -- who put in this viaduct - follow the ground man - trains can climb hills
posted via 165.91.13.111 user Mcneacail.


message 42440 - 03/03/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Who owns this bridge

11 am. a two-carriage Settle to Carlisle train heading onto the Ribblehead Viaduct, trains terminate at Appleby as there is a landslip beyond there

Does anyone know who owns the bridge on the Lakalend Cam site today

John
posted via 165.91.13.111 user Mcneacail.


message 42439 - 03/01/16
From: Alex, subject: Re: Gibber
As a writer myself, I can see AR writing SA as a stand-alone, where a monkey would be a fitting part of a finale since it would never actually make an appearance. Then he shifted gears, once the book had already been published, to turn SA into Book 1 of a series, and he had to work around that blasted monkey for the rest of his life. Very frustrating --though he turns the horrid thing into a useful plot device in ML. (Gibber's actions with the cigar were not DXM, as it wasn't unforeshadowed, out of the blue. It's plausible and, in retrospect, you can see it coming.)

I always hated that monkey.

Alex
posted via 204.194.168.209 user Pitsligo.


message 42438 - 02/29/16
From: Andy, subject: Lanehead
Today's Lakeland Cam image of Bank Ground Farm - as evocative as ever - got me onto Google Maps for a 'wander' along the east side of Coniston.

Lanehead, the Collingwoods' house, was an outdoor centre for many years but was put up for sale a few years ago for £800k.

I see (Google again) you can hire accomadation in the building next to the road, but what's the main property these days? Does anyone know?

Andy
posted via 92.22.37.34 user AndyG.


message 42437 - 02/22/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: Paintings
Some 'interesting results' indeed!

Thank you for posting the links.
posted via 83.10.36.235 user Jock.


message 42436 - 02/22/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Paintings
I should have said that I got a handful of interesting results when I searched for 'Collingwood' and 'Altounyan'! Do have a look.

Below I'm also going to link to the National Portrait Gallery, but it's a photo not a painting.

posted via 31.52.39.144 user Magnus.
message 42435 - 02/17/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Paintings
I've searched this archive for 'Collingwood' and 'Altounyan'. Who else is there who painted, and has a connection to AR? (Aside from Edwards Baker Boulton, that is.)

There are no results for 'Guzelian' or 'Gnosspelius'.

posted via 31.52.39.144 user Magnus.
message 42434 - 02/17/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Gibber
My father had a 23' sailing boat with a 5 hp Vire diesel inboard. The only way to start it was to crank the engine so that it was rotating at your best speed then close the valve so that it compressed the fuel to start the combustion.

It usually started quite easily.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42433 - 02/15/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Latin
When Ed Kiser started this subject going, he was actually referring to a sudden change in direction of the plot. The true technical name for that is 'peripeteia'.
There is a Deus ex Machina in ML: the sudden appearance of Miss Lee when things are getting out of control in their escape down the gorge.
posted via 86.174.178.70 user awhakim.
message 42432 - 02/15/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Latin
This reminds me of a short story by Len Deighton "Brent's Deux Ex Machina"; where it is translated as "an improbable device for ending things".
posted via 82.110.109.215 user MartinH.
message 42431 - 02/15/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Coming in late - Roger Wardale notes
Thank you Alan for that, much appreciated.
posted via 95.150.14.238 user MTD.
message 42430 - 02/15/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Gibber
My putt-putt's (petrol) Blaxland engine always started when it was warm by simply pulling the flywheel round with two hands. (What's more, it could be run in reverse by pulling the flywheel the opposite way -- very handy on occasion, as there was no reverse gear.)
posted via 124.171.82.17 user mikefield.
message 42429 - 02/14/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Gibber
Remember this was the 1930s. Compact, efficient marine diesels were not common at the time. During WW2 the RN's coastal forces suffered because they nearly all were fitted with petrol engines in wooden hulls. Conversely the German S-boote (commonly called E-boats) had diesel engines and were far less likely to burn.

Somebody else has mentioned the problems of starting small diesels. As late as the 70s, and probably into the 80s, the RN's whalers and motor cutters had twin cylinder diesels. A couple of pumps of ether into the cylinders were needed to get these to start. From warm this was no problem but on a frosty winter morning it could take several attempts to get the things running.
posted via 109.150.83.117 user MartinH.
message 42428 - 02/14/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Coming in late - Roger Wardale notes
A word of reassurance to Tarboarders about Roger's legacy. We don't know the exact terms of his Will yet (to be revealed next week) but the Executor has told us that his AR heritage is explicitly provided for.
And for those who were wondering about his age, he was 79 when he died. The funeral was well-attended (particularly good since he had no close family) and a very nice service, paying tribute to his 41 years in the same Primary school in Bognor Regis, and his great influence as a trainer of young athletes for many years. The Sussex county youth team won many competitions under his guidance.
His Arthur Ransome connection was also remembered. For many years he took his class up to the Lakes for a week, and it was said to be the highlight of the year for each generation of children.
posted via 86.159.210.4 user awhakim.
message 42427 - 02/14/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Coming in late - Roger Wardale notes
Thank you Claire for such a moving tribute to Roger that also answers some of the questions I would have liked to have asked him.

As you say, his knowledge of and connections with AR is a great loss to us.
posted via 95.150.76.91 user MTD.


message 42426 - 02/13/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Gibber
"Open the cylinder - crank like crazy until flywheel turning nicely and then close the valve and away she goes."

John, I was pretty sure that was the procedure, at least for smaller diesel engines.
And, David, I remember the term TVO from my youth. Wikipedia mentions it had an octane rating between paraffin and petrol.

My practical experience of boat engines is limited to the elderly two-stroke outboard on my sail-boat. It starts much more easily than it used to since I found a source of gasoline that doesn't have any ethanol in it. The ethanol used to absorb moisture and form a layer of incombustible liquid at the bottom of the gas tank.

posted via 108.16.160.102 user Didymus.


message 42425 - 02/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Latin
Deux ex etc..

an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel.

for those of us who art Latin challenged

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42424 - 02/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Gibber
We had to start large diesel engines in the Northern Territory by hand.

Open the cylinder - crank like crazy until flywheel turning nicely and then close the valve and away she goes

Simple flywheel is the secret huge Rotational MOI

J

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42423 - 02/13/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Gibber
No-one would build a small wooden schooner with a petrol engine unless you were insanely suicidal.

David:

I did not say they did not do it -- I still think after seeing two petrol fires in boats that the statement is possibly better as:

No-one should build a small wooden schooner with a petrol engine unless you were insanely suicidal.

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42422 - 02/13/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Gibber
Another common tractor and boat fuel used in the pre-war years was Tractor Vaporising oil

Was this the type where to start the engine, you inserted into a starting hole a wad of lit, saltpetre doped cloth or cotton waste, which rammed against the outside of the cylinder and generated a hot spot, which promoted ignition of the fuel/air mixture in the engine?
Or was this the starting procedure of a kind of diesel?
Magnetos, of course, survived for a very long time on motorbikes. I had a BTH (supposed to be better than Lucas) on a Triumph/Norton special. Trickier to set the timing than with a simple set of points.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42421 - 02/13/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Gibber
Another common tractor and boat fuel used in the pre-war years was Tractor Vaporising oil, (TVO). I met in Sydney a chap who had an English retired fishing smack which had a venerable TVO engine. As this fuel is no longer available, he tried others to approximate it. He found the engine ran best on mineral turpentine! He eventually had to dispose of a quite good engine because of the fuel problem, and replaced it with a much smaller, efficient diesel. Paraffin engines would have had spark ignition from a magneto. Magnetos were a lot more common in the twenties and thirties than they are today.
David
posted via 121.214.39.29 user David.
message 42420 - 02/12/16
From: Claire Barnett, subject: Coming in late - Roger Wardale notes
I was saddened to see the news of Roger's death in 'Signals From Tarsus'. I have been absent from this group for about 4 years, and I hope that you will indulge me for sharing some personal recollections and suggestions.

My initial contact with Roger was when I wrote to him while doing research for an article on the inspiration for Captain Flint's houseboat. He kindly gave me permission to use some photos and a letter that he had concerning the opinion of a former owner of the Esperance. I also corresponded with Geraint Lewis to obtain permission for some quotations from the books and the use of selected illustrations. The ensuing article, "Captain Flint's Houseboat", appeared in 'Signals from Tarsus'. Further correspondence with both Roger and Geraint convinced me that I had made a mistake in that article with my description of the houseboat's fo'c'sle area. That original article along with an acknowledgement of my mistake, appears here;

http://www.allthingsransome.net/arboats/index.html

We continued to correspond and, since I can't access my old email files easily I am not sure of the date or how it developed, but before the 2010 publication of "Arthur Ransome: Master Storyteller", I was privileged to work with Roger. My role was to proofread chapters as he developed them and to make suggestions, which he usually graciously accepted. He also knew that I was a fan of the Helene Carter illustrations in the Lippincott American editions, so her work appearing in that book as well as the Mary Shepard "Pigeon Post" illustrations came from my copy stand and photo touch up work. I have a treasured copy of the book which he sent to me, inscribed as following: "For Claire Barnett (Margagenia). In appreciation for the part that you played in its creation. Roger Wardale." His nickname for me was explained in the acknowledgements section of the book. "In the preparation of this book I have been cheered on my way by Claire Barnett from the USA, who has fulfilled the role of both 'Margaret Renold' and a kindly 'Evgenia'.

I was beginning to perform a similar role in his planned book about the Norfolk Broads area utilizing some of Ransome's diaries, when I had to drop out of the project for health reasons. I had to simplify my life considerably, so the expanded houseboat article did not get written either. I think it was guilt about those two unfinished projects that led me to take a leave of absence from Tarboard, and sadly, that became a habit.

Magnus Smith commented about Roger in the main thread that, "I didn't really know how old he was, but I occasionally wondered about scholars like him, who have amassed a lot of unique knowledge that isn't all written down. I never thought we'd need to ask him about passing his 'legacy' on before he went (how rude!), because I assumed there were decades more to go." I had that very discussion with Roger, pointing out that with the deaths of the people who knew AR directly, it was important to hear from people like himself who knew the Altounyans and other principles who had known AR. He resisted my suggestions though, because at that time he was having trouble lining up a publisher for the proposed Broads book, and thought it might be impossible to find one for reminiscences. And sadly, now we are losing Roger's generation of people who knew the people who knew AR. I know nothing about Roger's heirs or family, but I am hoping someone in England with such knowledge could see if the Brotherton Library or a similar suitable place could start a collection of Roger's notes and papers.

And on a final note, because he loved the Helene Carter illustrations too, I sent along copies of the Lippencott editions of "Coot Club" and "Swallowdale" with a friend returning to England, but I did not follow through to have them sent on to Roger. I vaguely remember a TARS library in England and I would donate the books to them if they were interested.
posted via 68.114.225.22 user Claire_Morgan.


message 42419 - 02/12/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Gibber
DEUS EX MACHINA - Perhaps this role was the part played by Gibber. In Missee Lee, he was a kind of catalyst that helped to make things happen, and provided a bit of comedy as well.

Since I did reference Missee Lee, it is hoped that I may be allowed to add in this bit of Latin, although I felt that the Latin in that story was a bit of an irritation - that is, until I had finally studied Latin in school for several years, then these Latin references in ML became an interesting challenge.

In development of the Plot, perhaps Daddy showing up in Holland at just the right moment solved quite a few problem. And perhaps,this Latin Phrase could be applied to Nancy's getting the Mumps in Winter Holiday, as without that, the whole story just misses out. The same Plot Changer influence can be said of Pike Rock in Swallowdale, as its presence changed the turn of events for the rest of the story. The unexpected visit by the Great Aunt certainly changed the events of the next ten days in Picts and Martyrs. The Plot comfortably goes on down the road, until quite unexpectedly, something come up to makes the Plot take a sudden turn onto some side exit into a totally unknown area. We have seen in our own lives how certain events, perhaps surprises, call for a complete change of previous plans, and life takes on a new perspective.

We never know, but that is what makes it exciting, an Advenure.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42418 - 02/11/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Gibber
I'm curious what the characteristics of a paraffin-fuelled boat-engine would be. For example, would it have magneto-driven spark ignition or compression (diesel) ignition? I did some fairly fruitless poking around on Wikipedia and found mention of farm tractors using paraffin (for obscure taxation-related reasons). Since cold paraffin wouldn't vaporize they had to be started using petrol. Would 1930s paraffin boat-engines have had the same problem? Good luck with getting that one started, Roger.
Mind you, it would have been handy to run your Primus (preheated with meths) and your navigation lights from the same fuel as the engine.
posted via 108.16.160.102 user Didymus.
message 42417 - 02/11/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Gibber
Yes Tom; early on in my career I worked alongside a contract driller who was having trouble starting the monstrous single-cylinder Southern Cross Diesel which powered his drill rig. This chap was small and slightly-built, and he didn't have the heft that was needed. His boss came to check up on how he was going. He was a giant of a man, who even had muscles in his ears. He closed the decompression lever before swinging vigorously on the starting handle. Off went the diesel straight away. "See,it's no trouble!" said the boss. The poor young driller was not impressed.
To answer John Nichols about diesels in boats; petrol engines were the norm in cruising yachts until quite recently. The Handy Billy in Goblin was a petrol engine.
David

posted via 121.214.39.29 user David.
message 42416 - 02/11/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Gibber
"No-one would build a small wooden schooner with a petrol engine unless you were insanely suicidal."

AR made rather a point about the Goblin in WD having a petrol engine as opposed to a paraffin one. As a practical note, would it be possible to hand-crank a diesel engine even if it had valve-lifting gear? AR's boats didn't have modern refinements such as batteries and starter motors.

posted via 108.16.160.102 user Didymus.


message 42415 - 02/11/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Gibber
never ruin a good story with reality

No-one would build a small wooden schooner with a petrol engine unless you were insanely suicidal.

John
posted via 165.91.12.230 user Mcneacail.


message 42414 - 02/11/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Gibber
Et tu, Brute?
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42413 - 02/11/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Gibber
Ah, so I wasn't the only one in the anti-Gibber group!

Mind you, I hate Miss Lee even more. Her crime? Making children do HOMEWORK in the HOLIDAYS!

Chopping off heads? Pah, who cares. Latin is more painful.
posted via 31.52.39.144 user Magnus.


message 42412 - 02/11/16
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Gibber
I was glad to see the back of him (I've always hated primates since an incident in childhood.)

I agree the AR having introduced the notion realised that it was a story line that it was impossible to maintain.

As for the burning of Wild Cat in ML, the first time I read it I was shocked but always knew that monkey was trouble!
posted via 2.31.102.247 user MTD.


message 42411 - 02/10/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: Gibber
I think your anger is misdirected. Capt Flint should not have been smoking during the operation and AR as the author (or the other children if they wrote the story) framed Gibber. I believe WildCat was a diesel and that you could have dropped lit cigars into her tanks all day and not got the desired result of a fire.
posted via 184.151.61.24 user rlcossar.
message 42410 - 02/10/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Gibber
I hated that monkey for losing the boat - still cannot read that story
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42409 - 02/10/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Gibber
Yes, I always thought that sentence couldn't be right. Zoos are not hotels!

As an adult reader, this sounds like the beginning of a parental trick to permanently rid themselves of an irritating pet, whilst trying to convince a young child that "he'd be happier there".

I'm afraid I was never a fan of Gibber, since he destroyed the Wild Cat. Strange how my young self held a grudge like that....
posted via 31.52.39.144 user Magnus.


message 42408 - 02/10/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Gibber
Peter, I think you are probably right. Gibber was a nice story touch in SA and obviously in PD and ML (especially). But not only would he have been a complication during the holidays, I'd be amazed if Roger's school would have let him have the monkey at school -- so Mrs. Walker or Nurse would probably have had to take care of him during school terms as well (unless Commanders RN had staff assigned to personal duties when they were assigned foreign duty).
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42407 - 02/10/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: Gibber
"So the monkey had been packed off to spend a happy month, staying with relations, at the Zoo"

This sentence has always puzzled me. I feel that AR has his tongue in his cheek here, and that this is what Roger was told, whereas the truth must surely have been different. To my knowledge, zoos will not take animals 'on loan' for short periods, for all sorts of reasons - infection risk is one of them, and also mental disturbance to the animal concerned and to other animal residents at the zoo. This will certainly be the case with primates, which are intelligent and gregarious. In fact, could the Walker family sensibly keep a monkey as a pet? - it is possible, but not always easy. I get the feeling that AR is trying to get himself out of an awkward spot here.
posted via 5.81.0.228 user Peter_H.


message 42406 - 02/08/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Gibber
Thank you Ed and Martin; brilliant, as usual !Well up to St. Tarboard's College standard.
posted via 121.214.39.29 user David.
message 42405 - 02/08/16
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: Gibber
Gibber is a prime character in Missee Lee, as he is the one that
disposed of a lit cigar into the fuel tank to start the fire.
His antics provide much entertainment as he imitates the actions
of humans.

He also plays an important role in Peter Duck. It is his
sleeping quarters that gets used to lock op Bill by the pirates.

So in ML and PD, we see Gibber as being one of the principal
characters.

In other stories, he sometimes is mentioned, but does not
actually appear.

In Winter Holiday, as they skate to Spitsbergen (Wild Cat Island)
they pause by the houseboat, and introduce the D's to some of the
past adventures in which the houseboat was the location. They
referred to the burglary there, and the retrieval of the stolen
chest, and as a reward, Captain Flint gave them a Parrot and a
Monkey, Gibber. It is quickly explained that both are not with
them now, but are at a zoo, visiting relations.

In We Didn't Mean to Go To Sea, as they remain anchored, waiting
for Jim to return, they are pretending to have just returned from
a voyage to some foreign tropical island. To make that imaginary
image a bit more real they wished that the parrot and them monkey
were there with them. Gibber is imagined to be up in the
crosstrees with the parrot.

In WD, we have the remarkable lucky meeting of Daddy, a rather
emotional moment, considering the stress they had been feeling.
His calm demeanor and apparent lack of surprise is contrasted
with what sort of greeting they might have expected if they had
encountered Captain Flint instead, with his anxious questioning
as to their welfare, including asking about the parrot and
Gibber, but their Father could wait and get the whole story later
when they were alone together.

Also in WD, having arrived in Holland and have taken Daddy on
board, they are surprised at the unsteadiness felt by walking on
motionless land when crossing over on a plank. Roger,
remembering Gibber, comes across there using both hands as Gibber
would have done.

In Swallowdale, as they were making preparations to go camping on
Wild Cat Island, Roger asked about making a tent for Gibber too,
but that was promptly discarded as being unnecessary, since he
was at the zoo, even though he was officially on the ship's papers
as a crew member.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA [ kisered@aol.com ]
posted via 74.128.28.7 user Kisered.


message 42404 - 02/08/16
From: Martin Honor, subject: Re: Gibber
Gibber is certainly mentioned in Swallowdale, chapter 2.

There is a passage about Gibber and Bridget being on the ship's papers although not full members of the crew. Then it continues "Roger himself, when asked if he would really like to share his tent with the monkey at night, had agreed that perhaps it would be as well if the monkey had his summer holidays at the same time as the rest of the Walkers had theirs. So the monkey had been packed off to spend a happy month, staying with relations, at the Zoo."

I cannot remember if there are references in any of the books, other than PD and ML. I suspect it was difficult to work him into the other stories and he was quietly forgotten.

posted via 86.145.169.168 user MartinH.


message 42403 - 02/07/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Gibber
Kiwi member Cheryl Paget asked on Facebook if Gibber, the monkey, was mentioned in any other books bar the two 'written by the children themselves'. Ed, can you answer that for her please?
David
posted via 120.144.164.142 user David.
message 42402 - 02/05/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Rob Boden
Mark, Rob and Joyce are traveling; I think they are currently in Sri Lanka. He posts very occasionally on Facebook but I don't know if he is dealing with e-mail at all, and he seems to be on the move pretty regularly judging from his posts. There are some decent before and after pictures on All Things Ransome:

http://allthingsransome.net/locations/dogshome/index.html.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.


message 42401 - 02/05/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Rob Boden
Sorry - I used to have his email - but I cannot find it

I must say I have spent several wonderful days with Rob and family, his wife Joyce is a real wit, she once described TARS people as a bunch of old English men who enjoyed tea and crumpets. Or words to that effect.

A really nice guy.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42400 - 02/05/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Rob Boden
Sorry - I used to have his email - but I cannot find it

I must say I have spent several wonderful days with Rob and family, his wife Joyce is a real wit, she once described TARS people as a bunch of old English men who enjoyed tea and crumpets. Or words to that effect.

A really nice guy.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42399 - 02/04/16
From: Mark, subject: Rob Boden
Does anyone have correct contact details for Rob Boden?

I've been trying to reach him regarding the rebuild of The Dog's Home but the email address I have for him is not receiving messages (or he's not respondng for some reason).

I'm after someone who was there and/or involved with the restoration who can tell me what happened, in what order, etc etc for an article for Furthest South.

Two of our members have visited it, but I can't get anything out of them either, although I have found some post-resto pics on the net on Flickr, but who owns them I have not been able to determine.

Some before and after (if not 'during') pics would be useful as well.

Can anyone assist?
Cheers
Mark
buz_zook (at) hotmail (dot) com
posted via 124.169.128.131 user Buzzook.


message 42398 - 02/03/16
From: David Maxwell, subject: Re: Marshall Island Wave Piloting
In his recent book, Pacific, Simon Winchester talks about this as well.
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.
message 42397 - 02/03/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Marshall Island Wave Piloting
And the novelist Morris West wrote a great story, 'The Navigator', that brings the topic dramatically to life.
posted via 124.171.70.238 user mikefield.
message 42396 - 02/03/16
From: David Bamford, subject: Re: Marshall Island Wave Piloting
I am pleased that the Wikipedia article recognised the documentation in the 1960s by Dr. David Lewis of Mau Piailug's skill in navigators. He wrote a book about it; 'We the Navigators'. Excellent reading.
posted via 137.147.155.186 user David.
message 42395 - 02/03/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Marshall Island Wave Piloting
This is a Wikipedia article on the life and methods of a Micronesian navigator who made a voyage from Hawaii to Tahiti with no modern navigation aids despite the fact he didn't know the area around Tahiti. He also used the stars as well as the descriptions of the sea and currents.


posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42394 - 02/02/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Marshall Island Wave Piloting
This is a bit off topic for AR but not for sailing. Article in the Smithsonian on the "Lost Art" of Wave Piloting in the Marshall Islands (navigation by sophisticated understanding of wave currents rather than celestial). Apologies for the adverts larding up the article, but it's worth it.

Smithsonian Article on Wave Piloting.

posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.


message 42393 - 01/26/16
From: John nichols, subject: Re: Horning
Thank you for the maps. They are perfect.

It appears that the intersection of the Ferry Road on the northern end is not drawn correctly by AR or is that my imagination?

When did the ferry stop - it is still there I think in the 1960's?

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42392 - 01/25/16
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: Horning
A wide range of old Ordnance Survey maps of various ages and at various larger scales can be seen at http://www.old-maps.co.uk or on the National Library of Scotland website http://www.nls.uk .

A more limited range of old OS maps at scales of 1:63360, 1:25000 and smaller scales can be seen by going to http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ and clicking on "Historic OS Maps".
posted via 95.150.41.254 user eclrh.


message 42391 - 01/25/16
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Horning
I have an Ordnance Survey map of 1950.
posted via 109.151.223.20 user awhakim.
message 42390 - 01/25/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Horning
I've got some (not perfect) scans from the Braods books. Let me know your email address and I will pass them on.
posted via 86.160.195.107 user Magnus.
message 42389 - 01/24/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Horning
When I went to Horning recently I forgot to take CC. Bad mistake, I have been rereading CC and I started to look at the maps drawn by AR.

I found the old Ordnance Survey Map and it is not hard to spot about where the Dr's place should be, but the intersection of the Ferry Road looks different to Google earth and the Ordnance Map.

I only have the Penguin - can someone scan the Horning plan from CC and does anyone have the Ordnance Map
John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42388 - 01/23/16
From: John, subject: Re: Eel men - the end
I would have answered your letter sooner, but you didn't send one.

Goodman Ace.

From the Lakeland Cam

----------------------------------------
I had eel in the south of France and it is wonderful as meal.

Unfortunately a few billion people consume a lot of food

I was reading somewhere the that entire herring harvest in Alaska is caught in 20 minutes each year - feast or famine for the boats.

Otzi would be sad at the decimation

posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42387 - 01/22/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: Eel men - the end
In his lament on the demise of England's eel fishermen Griff Rhys Jones
blames Japanese trawler fleets targeting the eel routes, scooping eels
up wholesale before they can return to the Sargasso Sea to reproduce.

Both SW and BS get a mention too.

posted via 83.29.0.165 user Jock.
message 42386 - 01/20/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Eel men - the end
The number of people fishing in front of the Swan Inn 2 weeks ago was amazing - even in the frigid air
posted via 165.91.13.103 user Mcneacail.
message 42385 - 01/20/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Eel men - the end
Another AR feature drifts into the past - It is reported in many of the UK newspapers today that the last licensed eel catcher left in Britain has given up the trade. There are now not enough eels in the waterways to support a living. Over the last 25 years the number of European eels has declined by 95%. The reason for the fall in eels stocks remains a mystery. The last eel man is Peter Carter, who is 50 and has been catching eels with willow traps all his life.
posted via 86.182.40.208 user Peter_H.
message 42384 - 01/20/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: The red slippers - another Icon bites the dust - tea -
Is there no Latin word for tea? Upon my soul, if I had known that I would have let the vulgar stuff alone.

Hilaire Belloc.
posted via 165.91.13.103 user Mcneacail.


message 42383 - 01/20/16
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Coming very late to this having just returned from a trip to India where I married off my oldest and then went on a trip around southern India.

I am very sorry to hear of this. I only really knew Roger from his knowledgeable and friendly posts here. He has written so many books about AR which have brought additional insight into the life and works of one of my favourite auths.

My belated condolences to his family and friends too.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42382 - 01/15/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: The red slippers
From Rachel Roberts at Abbot Hall:

The pair of Turkish slippers are positively and definitely not the pair given by the Altounyan children to Arthur Ransome, but they do stem from the Altounyan family. They were given to the museum by one of the Altounyan children when they were adults. She presented the pair of Turkish slippers to the museum at the unveiling of the conserved Mavis (Amazon), which were very similar to, but definitely not the pair given to Ransome. At the time, she said that the slippers had belonged to her father and descended to her. Whether the children pinched their father's slippers for Arthur Ransome, so that he [Dr Altounyan] had to purchase another pair to replace them when he got back to Aleppo, I do not know . . .
posted via 64.236.138.4 user dthewlis.


message 42381 - 01/14/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: The red slippers
The dedication which mentioned the slippers was withdrawn when the Ransomes fell out with the Altounyans, and later books had a page on "How I came to write Swallows and Amazons" instead.

If your essay is more about the slippers, then you don't have to worry about the complexity of human relationships, falling out, making up, etc. And you can ignore an author's issues of using real children's names in a book, and later becoming over-protective of your 'creations', jealousy and so on. It is a very difficult situation to explain.

If your essay is about "things" in terms of keepsakes/curios/mementos/knick-knacks, then it would be worth us talking over email as I've looked into this topic before, trying to catalog the ornaments and touchstones that Ransome owned, and also looking at the 'dens' of other authors (like Roald Dahl) who surrounded themselves with little items of special meaning whilst writing. I haven't published anything from my research though.
posted via 86.160.195.107 user Magnus.


message 42380 - 01/13/16
From: Rob Boden, subject: Re: The red slippers
Peter -
you could contact the Museum of Lakeland Life which house them - info@lakelandmuseum.org.uk or the Arthur Ransome Trust contact@Arthur-Ransome-Trust.org.uk who are very knowledgeable.

Rob
posted via 2.31.159.141 user humyar.


message 42379 - 01/12/16
From: Peter Stanley, subject: The red slippers
Dear Ransome experts
I am writing an article about Arthur Ransome's "things" - the material culture of Ransome, his life and his creations, for a journal of museums and collections.
I would like to seek your expert advice.
I understood that the red slippers displayed in the Ransome room at Abbott Hall in Kendal were the original slippers mentioned in Ransome's dedication to his Swallows and Amazons books. Then I heard (but can't recall the source) that this is now disputed or uncertain. Can anyone advise or enlighten me?
If anyone knows of any research published on Ransome's material culture I'd be gld to hear from you.
Thanks
Yours faithfully
Prof. Peter Stanley
University of NSW Canberra
posted via 180.200.148.130 user Peterstanley.
message 42378 - 01/12/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
I've got a copy of that Broadland book! I must have mis-read the email; it was another topic then.

There was more to write, that's what I meant.
posted via 86.174.71.49 user Magnus.


message 42377 - 01/12/16
From: Duncan, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Is this not the book, Magnus?

Roger was obviously finding it more difficult to get around the country to do his research leading up to this book, because I went to the Brotherton for him and transcribed Evgenia's diaries for their Broads cruises. Absolutely fascinating.

posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.
message 42376 - 01/11/16
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: S & As in America
For about ten years, TARSUS, the U.S. branch of TARS, maintained a compilation of "Introductory Bios" of members describing their involvement with and introduction to Ransome and the Swallows and Amazons; the complete set was sent to each new member. Reading them, it seems a fair number did recreate some parts of the adventures. Eventually the compilation, along with issues of the group's newsletter Signals from TARSUS, was published in the ATR Archives to preserve it: http://allthingsransome.net/archives/index.html.
posted via 64.236.138.4 user dthewlis.
message 42375 - 01/11/16
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Very sad to hear Roger Wardale is no longer with us. His books were the first thing I owned when I branched out beyond "the 12" as a young adult. I corresponded with him a little in recent years, and it was always a pleasure. We were debating whether AR had ever met Nevil Chute, as each had a similar yacht. Also Roger was interested to hear what I found when I went to nose through the Collingwood collection at Cardiff (still on my 'to do' list).

I didn't really know how old he was, but I occasionally wondered about scholars like him, who have amassed a lot of unique knowledge that isn't all written down. I never thought we'd need to ask him about passing his 'legacy' on before he went (how rude!), because I assumed there were decades more to go.

When we last spoke it seemed like there was enough material for another book (focussing on AR's Broads) but financial dangers in undertaking one, which was a shame.

Re-reading our correspondence has made me feel very sad.
posted via 86.174.71.49 user Magnus.


message 42374 - 01/08/16
From: Ross, subject: Re: S & As in America
In some ways I recreated or created my own S&A life. My parents rented a cottage one summer on a seven acre island. Mom made outline maps of the island and we entered our own names for the places we explored there.
posted via 184.151.37.6 user rlcossar.
message 42373 - 01/08/16
From: Lisa M, subject: S & As in America
Did anyone else recreate the crews' adventures in the States? My cousins and I did in upstate NY. I've written an essay about the books which was a delightful nostalgia trip.
posted via 67.243.130.129 user lisamull.
message 42372 - 01/08/16
From: M Jones, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Very sad to have learned this. I enjoyed his books and appreciated his generosity with his knowledge and research. May the wind be always at his back. My best to his family.
posted via 107.179.150.199 user MJone21.
message 42371 - 01/08/16
From: Rob Boden, subject: Re: Horning
John - sorry, just picked this up. Have a great time in the Broads. Re bridges - the recent floods have destroyed some bridges up here and others are closed due to damage. Worrying time.
Rob
posted via 2.31.159.141 user humyar.
message 42370 - 01/05/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Horning
Rob:

My CX1's are scattered throughout the world and I will not have one in England -- plus it is R and R.

I am booked at the Inn keepers from the 7th till the 9th

How do I get there from London airport in a hire car any thoughts

Prefer to be coming to the lake district to see you and family, but lack the time, next time -

The English Professor has been reluctant to waste research time on Lakes, although she did visit Ambleside for lunch a few weeks ago and then told me -- the I though of galoots at the time

Looking forward to it.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42369 - 01/04/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Thanks for that link, Jock.
posted via 49.181.146.82 user mikefield.
message 42368 - 01/04/16
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: AR's Norfolk dialect
Maybe they're called "Honorary Professors" because they're paid what they're worth?
posted via 49.181.146.82 user mikefield.
message 42367 - 01/04/16
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: AR's Norfolk dialect
Having had many conversations with a Norfolk man who could have stood in for Harry Bangate, I reckon AR knew the Norfolk accent, or at least the Broadland accent, pretty well.

I think the Times leader got it just right.
posted via 92.29.234.206 user Mike_Jones.


message 42366 - 01/04/16
From: Peter Hyland, subject: AR's Norfolk dialect
In The Times (UK) today, it is reported that a University of Buckingham research paper claims that 200 lines of dialogue in Coots in the North are an important capture of a Norfolk dialect which is now largely lost, particularly the phraseology, e.g. “be cutting up that loaf”, “fare to rain”, “chimley” and “he ain’t got a head on him no better’n a squashed frog”. However, an Honorary Professor, one Prof. Trudgill, disagrees and says that AR’s rendition of the dialect is “rather poor”.

The Times seems to support AR, saying in its third leader that “Arthur Ransome was no gaumless dickup and he wasn’t nonnacking neither”, and that he wrote down what he heard. Hear hear - I don’t think we should take much notice of “Honorary Professors” – whatever they are.

posted via 86.182.42.43 user Peter_H.


message 42365 - 01/04/16
From: Jock, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
An obituary for Roger Wardale has just been posted on the website of the Nancy Blackett Trust.
posted via 83.29.105.20 user Jock.
message 42364 - 01/02/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Sheer pleasure
Yes this is a great book


posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42363 - 01/02/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
A true gentleman Author and wonderful to correspond with on this board. I shall miss him.

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42362 - 01/02/16
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: Broads
Thanks to all for the places to stay. I have just returned from Australia - unfortunately my daughters internet was non existent as she had just moved. So I bought a wifi hotspot , but it only had 3 GB so I used it sparingly

I will book tomorrow

I have to be in Bristol by 9 pm on Saturday - and visit a friend in the middle of England for Lunch on the same day

Should be a lot of fun

I am going to hire a car - done enough trains in the last month -

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42361 - 01/02/16
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: Sheer pleasure
And that climactic moment when everyone turns to look at the D's and they are gone.

posted via 108.16.172.7 user Didymus.
message 42360 - 01/02/16
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Sheer pleasure
Just noodling through the stories, as you do, and read the final chapters of PM, my favourite of all the books.
The final chapters, the search for the GA, Colonel Jolys and the tin trumpets, the D's accidentally picking up Miss Turner at the houseboat and sailing her back to Beckfoot, with the hills ringing to the sound of coach horns and bloodhounds, and the GA's polishing off the hunters, "Down with one, ready for the next". And the recognition that Nancy and the GA have that fundamentally in common... It's beautifully told, a real adventure, told as if you were there, plenty for children but also a properly 'grown up' account of the feelings and actions of all. Detailed, spare, almost journalistic, in the best way.
I think that's my favourite passage of my favourite book.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.
message 42359 - 12/31/15
From: Ross, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Roger was a great part of our Ransome focused community. He will be missed.
posted via 184.151.37.118 user rlcossar.
message 42358 - 12/31/15
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
I was very sorry to hear about Roger; I knew from correspondence with him that he was not well and very curtailed in his activities. Although I never had the opportunity to meet him I counted him a friend and an invaluable contributor to, in additional to everything else, the work of All Things Ransome; his research and contributions, and willingness to review, critique, and share, were critical in new areas such as the inspirations page, the article about Swallow, much of the new locations information...and the list goes on. Farewell, and fair seas.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42357 - 12/30/15
From: Mike Field, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Thanks for posting this, Paul. What very sad news. I treasure my copy of Roger's Lake Country book and photos. Like others I had corresponded with him off and on over the years and always found him most helpful and most courteous (even when we disagreed on the preferred site for Swallowdale...) Please pass on my sincere condolences to his family, and ensure they know what a highly-valued member of this world-wide community of ours he was.


posted via 49.182.134.189 user mikefield.


message 42356 - 12/30/15
From: David Maxwell, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Having read a few of his AR books I know he will be missed by all of us fans! A very sad day.
posted via 97.78.254.140 user DavidMaxwell.
message 42355 - 12/30/15
From: Peter Ceresole, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
This is sad news indeed, his knowledge of AR was remarkable and provided great insight to those such as myself with far less.

We had communicated by e-mail a few times and I always found him approachable, way beyond a casual enquiry he was prompt in his responses.

A great loss, and my condolences to his family.

Yes indeed. I'd like to echo all of that. A splendid man.
posted via 80.176.146.133 user PeterC.


message 42354 - 12/30/15
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Thank you, Mike. All condolences will be passed on. Apparently, he was e-mailing from his hospital bed, with never a hint that he was unwell. Those of us in the Southern Region of TARS were hoping to see him at the AR Birthday lunch next month. There will be quite a few glasses raised to him!
Paul
posted via 86.157.214.192 user Paul_Crisp.
message 42353 - 12/30/15
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: Roger Wardale
Thank you Paul for letting us all know.

This is sad news indeed, his knowledge of AR was remarkable and provided great insight to those such as myself with far less.

We had communicated by e-mail a few times and I always found him approachable, way beyond a casual enquiry he was prompt in his responses.

A great loss, and my condolences to his family.
posted via 95.151.3.147 user MTD.


message 42352 - 12/30/15
From: Paul Crisp, subject: Roger Wardale
A very sad note to end the year. I have just received a telephone call telling me that Roger died at 6 o'clock on Monday morning. He had cancer, spent some time in care, but hoped to be at home for Christmas. Unfortunately, on Christmas Eve he realised this was not to be and asked to be taken into hospital.
As soon as I have any further news regarding his funeral I shall let people know. I know just how much we shall all miss him.

Paul
posted via 86.157.214.192 user Paul_Crisp.


message 42351 - 12/28/15
From: Jock, subject: Re: Broads
The Bure Valley Railway is closed from New Year to February half term.

The railway is running 'mince pie specials' from 1-3 January, so John might just be able to catch a trip. But, if he only has a couple of days to explore the Broads, my advice would be: forget the railway, forget the car, and spend one of the days exploring the Broads by boat!

A dayboat from Southgates Marina in Horning would cost £70 (approx. 104USD) for the whole day 09:00 to 17:00.

You could explore a surprising amount of the geography associated with CC and BS in just a day and still return in time for a great pub supper!



posted via 83.29.185.241 user Jock.
message 42350 - 12/27/15
From: Robert Hill, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
In 2008 it was 23 March. The earliest possible is 22 March.
posted via 95.150.40.176 user eclrh.
message 42349 - 12/27/15
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
And Easter this coming year 2016 is on 27 March again. Only the second time since 1932. (Last time was 2005.)
posted via 109.151.222.101 user awhakim.
message 42348 - 12/26/15
From: Edward Burroughs, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
Boarding schools used to adjust the beginning of term according to the date Easter fell in that year. The idea was to get in a worthwhile ten-week term before packing the children off home for Easter. Perhaps this still happens - I don't know - but I guess AR would remember it from his time at Rugby.

In 1932, the year of WH, Easter was on 27 March, almost as early as it could possibly fall. So the children would have been expecting to go back to school by 17 January at the latest.
posted via 2.123.135.124 user edward_burroughs.


message 42347 - 12/23/15
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
My father's diaries show that in 1946, I went back to school on January 24th, while my elder sister went earlier, on Jan 14th. In 1947 (a bad winter, but not till a few weeks later) the dates were Jan 23rd and 15th, and in 1948 Jan 20th and 14th.
I don't suppose the pattern had changed much since the 1930s.
posted via 86.163.2.171 user awhakim.
message 42346 - 12/23/15
From: Alan Hakim, subject: Re: Broads
Yes, Ranworth Church, an easy 10-minute walk from the staithe, has a terrific view from the top of the tower. When I went up it last year, the doorway to the tower had a notice: "Warning: the ascent to the tower involves 89 steps, a ladder and a trapdoor." They didn't exaggerate.
The church claims to be known as 'The Cathedral of the Broads.' It has a very fine interior too.
posted via 86.163.2.171 user awhakim.
message 42345 - 12/23/15
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
That year was a very bad winter and I was going to a new boarding school and the start of term was delayed by a week or so because the school had frozen pipes in some places and couldn't cope with 60 boys with no water!
Once we got to school, we were actually allowed to wear long trousers instead of the usual shorts which we normally wore all year long.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42344 - 12/23/15
From: Mike Jones, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
I have found a diary that shows that in 1963 my boarding school term started on 21 January.
posted via 92.25.216.107 user Mike_Jones.
message 42343 - 12/22/15
From: Ross, subject: Re: Broads
And there is a church spire at the side of Ranworth Broad (if I recall correctly) that you can climb up the spiral stair case and have a terrific view of the region.

What I recall is that all of the areas of water (these so called broads) are really very small when I compare them to the visions I had from reading the stories.
posted via 184.151.61.56 user rlcossar.


message 42342 - 12/22/15
From: Rob Boden, subject: Re: Broads
Check out both hotels - they are about the same price - and check whether breakfast is included in the price at about £8 each. Also try to get a river view - the King's Head might only offer its family room with this.

The Bure Valley Railway is closed from New Year to February half term. It might be worth checking what the Albion (wherry) is doing - it's based at Ludham just a couple of miles from Horning and you might blag a viewing! And the Heritage Fleet of sailing yachts next door.
posted via 2.27.170.53 user humyar.


message 42341 - 12/21/15
From: Jock, subject: Re: Broads
Wroxham is also the terminus of the 15' gauge Bure Valley Railway. There was was a standard gauge line in here AR's time, but is still a great ride!

posted via 83.29.214.234 user Jock.
message 42340 - 12/21/15
From: Jock, subject: Re: Broads
Wroxham – "The King's Head", Cheap and cheerful!

Wroxham is the 'gateway' to AR's Broads, and a short drive away from Horning, Ranworth, Acle, and a reasonable distance from Yarmouth. Norwich and Beccles could be visited en route> while driving to or from London.
posted via 83.29.214.234 user Jock.


message 42339 - 12/21/15
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
Nowadays the term dates seem to be earlier but back in the 1930s and even into my time in the 1960s they were a week or two later.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42338 - 12/21/15
From: Rob Boden, subject: Bridges
John -

will you be placing one of your sensors on the medieval bridge at Potter Heigham?

Rob
posted via 2.27.170.53 user humyar.


message 42337 - 12/21/15
From: Rob Boden, subject: Horning
John -

what about the Swan next to the staithe in Horning, three miles by road (six by river) from Wroxham? It's an Innkeepers Lodge nowadays so it will be fairly formulaic, but the views should be good and Horning is a good location for Wroxham, Acle, Horsey etc. Search for it on t'internet - it has its own site. You could also get the train into Norwich from "Wroxham and Hoveton" Station to re-enact the D's trip on the way back, and shop in Roys of Wroxham.

The Pleasure Boat Inn at Hickling is probably the nearest we've got to the Roaring Donkey, and good for lunch.

Rob
posted via 2.27.170.53 user humyar.


message 42336 - 12/21/15
From: Jon, subject: Re: Broads
We stayed at Three Acres B&B when we were at the Broads several years ago. Very nice and a bit over 10 miles from Horning, very close to Horsey.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42335 - 12/21/15
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
Thanks Adam, as soon as I read your post I remembered. Yes, it is a strange scene as they are all old enough for Bridget's birth to be a very memorable event!
posted via 95.151.3.147 user MTD.
message 42334 - 12/21/15
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
Thanks, Geraint. Definite failure of memory on my part.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42333 - 12/21/15
From: John Nichols, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
Except does not usual boarding school go back about the 5th Jan in England ?
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.
message 42332 - 12/21/15
From: John Nichols, subject: Broads
If I have two days in early January to explore the Broads in a rental car where should I stay

coming form London and going back to London

John
posted via 50.24.51.118 user Mcneacail.


message 42331 - 12/21/15
From: Tom Napier, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
WH is one of the few books where some events can be explicitly dated. The first visit to Cache Island was on 28th January and the second, the day of the polar expedition, was 10th February. Unfortunately, an unknown number of days go unrecorded during the "airing of the houseboat" so this doesn't help in dating the start of the holidays.

posted via 108.16.169.36 user Didymus.
message 42330 - 12/21/15
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
It is in Chapter 16 of Swallows and Amazons when Mrs Walker brings Baby Vicky (Bridget) to Wild Cat Island for her 2nd birthday and a party and surprisingly none of the children can remember whose birthday it is. Susan says at one point, 'it can't be mine because mine is on New Year's Day and this is summer'.

I always think that this is one of the strangest episodes in the books, it seems to show a remarkable lack of family feeling among the Swallows. I might not remember as the day approached but if someone ever told me that today was one of my family member's birthdays I would know exactly whose it was. I certainly wouldn't have to work out that it wasn't my own because of the season of the year.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42329 - 12/21/15
From: Mike Dennis, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
Adam - to save me looking it up remind me how we know when Susan's birthday is.

I agree there are back references to Christmas so it is clearly set in post-Christmas part of the school holidays.

As for the mumps I agree, I caught it in my late 20s from the young son of some friends who visited one Boxing Day - nobody else got it and the only 'contact' I had was sitting opposite him at the dinner table! Perhaps Nancy got it at school?

Despite all this, I still think of WH as a Christmas book and is still my favourite.
posted via 95.151.3.147 user MTD.


message 42328 - 12/21/15
From: Geraint_Lewis, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
In response to both Adam and Dave's comments, I believe Christmas is actually mentioned five times in WH. Two references are to Christmas Pudding and one to Nancy getting a new knife as a Christmas present (they used the file in it to cut the iron bar in the Igloo fireplace). The most useful reference comes at the first meeting between the D's and the other explorers, in Chapter 3. We know Dick and Dorothea have only just arrived. But Susan explains that "their Mother had gone away only yesterday morning (with Bridget, to Malta), and that "they had been staying at Holly Howe ever since Christmas and that they, too, would be going back to school when the holidays came to an end."

So AR does place the story in relation to Christmas, and tell us how long the Swallows have been at HH.

As for how Nancy got the mumps, it seems Mrs Blackett shared Adam's surprise: "But really (she said), where Nancy managed to pick it up I don't know. There's no mumps in the valley." I'd suggest AR realised this element of the plot was potentially tricky, so he reassured the reader by having the characters recognise that.



posted via 5.81.136.90 user Geraint_Lewis.


message 42327 - 12/20/15
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
English boarding schools tended to have longer holidays at Christmas and New Year, not going back until the end of the second week of January.
We know Susan's birthday is January 1st and yet there is no mention of it. I suspect that the children spent the Christmas and New Year with family or friends and then were sent off to the Lakes for a week or so before returning to school. Nancy's mumps extended that period into February allowing time for the Lake to freeze.

The other question is where did Nancy get her mumps from? And why only her? It was very lucky that none of the others caught it off her. I caught mumps by spending a few hours in the company of a non-symptomatic child. That extended my Christmas break by a couple of weeks when I was in my early 20s.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42326 - 12/20/15
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
It is, of course. Although it is amusing that there is never any reference whatsoever to Christmas, Boxing Day, New Year's, etc. I've never been quite sure just when these winter holidays were as a result.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42325 - 12/20/15
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Re: WH for Christmas
It is, of course. Although it is amusing that there is never any reference whatsoever to Christmas, Boxing Day, New Year's, etc. I've never been quite sure just when these winter holidays were as a result.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42324 - 12/20/15
From: Mike Dennis, subject: WH for Christmas
Vintage books have issued a new reprint of WH as part of their Christmas collection (the front covers are like a wrapped present using graphics from the actual book and the back covers an old-fashioned sticker of Father Christmas.)

What's interesting is that it has a larger typeface and line spacing than other paperback editions so coming in at 480 pages!

But good to see they regard it as a Christmas classic.
posted via 95.151.3.147 user MTD.


message 42323 - 12/18/15
From: Dave Thewlis, subject: Test
Please ignore this test.
posted via 75.111.81.24 user dthewlis.
message 42322 - 12/16/15
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Book Collecting
I've just enjoyed 10 pages of some very 'Bohemia in London' style writing from a free PDF discovered online.

Have a look at "The Hunting-Grounds of London" from "The Romance of Book-Collecting" (1898) by J.H. Slater at the link below (ignore the fact that the website address uses the word "porno" in it!). I guess this was a decade before Ransome's London times, but probably reflects the bookseller situation well.

I enjoyed it. There are other essays about book collecting.

posted via 86.174.71.49 user Magnus.
message 42321 - 12/14/15
From: Magnus Smith, subject: Re: Walker family, was reminded of Ransome
Several of the biographical works on Ransome address this issue. The two I recall from Brogan/Wardale/someone are:

1. AR used a folder or notebook, brand name Walker, when writing S&A

2. John Walker was the boatman who was paid to maintain the real Swallow on her mooring (baling her out in the winter)
posted via 86.174.71.55 user Magnus.


message 42320 - 12/14/15
From: Duncan, subject: Re: Walker family, was reminded of Ransome
Interestingly (but rather more prosaically) - the main boatyard just to the south of Bowness was "Walker's", located broadly where Holly Howe might have been had it been on Windermere...
posted via 212.219.3.8 user Duncan.
message 42319 - 12/13/15
From: Jon, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
Frederic John Walker? Seems to me that "Ted" has been used as a nickname for "Frederick" upon occasion. Perhaps he is connected. John, as "F. J. Walker Jr.", called by his middle name to avoid confusion.
posted via 69.140.32.156 user Jon.
message 42318 - 12/12/15
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
And they named a range of Scotch whiskies after him too!
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.
message 42317 - 12/12/15
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
Apologies - I should have said that Johnny Walker had a distinguished career in the RN anti-submarine force.
posted via 5.81.0.16 user Peter_H.
message 42316 - 12/12/15
From: Peter Hyland, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
The submariner John Walker (known as Johnny) is commemorated at the Pier Head in Liverpool, where there is a statue. Whenever the Arthur Ransome Society has met in Liverpool, they always visit this statue, even though there is no real connection as far as we know, but because this is someone who we can imagine the AR John Walker might have turned out to be.

Johnny Walker statue, Liverpool

posted via 5.81.0.16 user Peter_H.


message 42315 - 12/11/15
From: John Wilson, subject: Re: Walker family, was reminded of Ransome
Re the name of the Walker family, I thought it came from AR’s first wife Ivy and their daughter Tabitha, born in 1910. In his autobiography AR writes that Ivy Walker "insisted that I should be in the room while my daughter was being born (a very modern idea!) but, just beefore the delivery was complete, her doctor had the humanity to send me to his own house for a bottle he pretended to have forgotten"
posted via 202.154.157.29 user hugo.
message 42314 - 12/11/15
From: Ed Kiser, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
Another "Ransome" reference - in reading about the Battle of the Atlantic during the early part of WWII, I read where the Royal Navy came up with a hunter-killer group to go sub chasing. This group got pretty good at it. It had a commander by the name of JOHN WALKER. He is a bit older than the one we know about in Ransome's stories, but that name just leaped out at me. Ransome's character was named a decade before the sub chaser reached his acclaim.

Do we know of any reference that could be the origin of his choosing the name "WALKER" for the Swallows?

Will the marvels, the mysteries, the little surprises ever cease to arise from a re-reading of these Ransome stories - for the Nth time. It has been quite an adventure, and it continues with each re-reading.

Nancy Drew was never like that...

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA
posted via 74.87.196.171 user Kisered.


message 42313 - 12/10/15
From: Adam Quinan, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
I also saw Ed's comment and Tony Richardson's response and reassurance!

One book I have read is The Golden Ocean by Patrick O'Brian. Not one of the Aubrey-Maturin series but set earlier during Anson's circumnavigation from 1740-44.

One of the characters is a large elderly midshipman who is is said to be very hairy. His name is Ransome. At the time Patrick O'Brian's publisher was Arthur Ransome's friend Rupert Hart-Davis and I have wondered whether they ever met there. Also whether Ransome's great mustache made some sort of impression on O'Brian so that he wrote him into his story.
posted via 99.226.198.48 user Adam.


message 42312 - 12/10/15
From: Ross Cossar, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
Then I was looking at the Lakeland Cam pics and saw one of Wildcat Island (Peel) with the following

this picture of Peel Island is to reassure Ed Kiser in Kentucky that the harbour on Wildcat Island is fine

and I thought of both Ransome and Kiser!
posted via 184.151.37.190 user rlcossar.


message 42311 - 12/10/15
From: Ross, subject: Re: reminded of Ransome
The little things that connect the corners of our experiences! Priceless.
posted via 184.151.37.190 user rlcossar.
message 42310 - 12/10/15
From: Ed Kiser, subject: reminded of Ransome
In re-reading the classic, "KIDNAPPED", I ran into two situations that reminded me of Ransome. David Balfour was forced onto a ship to be taken to the Americas and on that ship he met a cabin boy, whose name was RANASOME. Later, David escaped from a shipwreck and with his new friend, Alan Breck, they were walking across Scotland trying to avoid the Redcoats, and feeding themselves by GUDDLING for trout in a stream.

I rather enjoyed being reminded.

Ed Kiser, Kentucky, USA
posted via 74.87.196.171 user Kisered.